A Problem Called Morrissey And What To Do About It

BoilerRhapsody said:
As always with music media turning Nick's Red Hand Files into articles, I would suggest reading the original:

www.theredhandfiles.com

Nick Cave - The Red Hand Files - Issue #48 - I was lucky enough to be at your recent London show and you played Cosmic Dancer by T Rex. It reminded me how Morrissey also covered and released this. In turn it reminded me of my current struggle reconci

Dear Mark, I understand it is very difficult when an artist you admire reveals something about themselves which you feel casts an unhappy shadow across...
www.theredhandfiles.com www.theredhandfiles.com

The question was is it possible to separate the latter artist from the earlier art? I find Nick puts forward a very reasonable 'yes' (note the difference between if we should and if we can).

You'll notice they asked separately for Nick's opinion on what Morrissey has been up to and he very blatantly avoids speaking about it, I suspect he may not even be aware of what Morrissey has been doing/saying in detail, but we can't know because he didn't even touch it.
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I mean I couldn’t disagree more. The question references the far right views and he refers to Morrissey’s stance on immigration in his response. I read the response to the letter exactly as pitchfork reported it...
 
Joe Mac said:
I mean I couldn’t disagree more. The question references the far right views and he refers to Morrissey’s stance on immigration in his response. I read the response to the letter exactly as pitchfork reported it...
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I'm not sure we're understanding each other, I don't really get what you're disputing. I realise the person asking mentions far right views, and Nick also brings up someone at an In Conversation show that mentioned immigration, but where does Nick offer his opinion on the actual views? As far as I can tell he's only answering the 'Generally, is it possible to separate the latter-day artist from his earlier art?' question.

Apart from where he refers to Morrissey's recent comments as "whatever inanities he may postulate", or where he describes every person as "messy, flawed and prone to lunacies" I suppose.

In your original comment that I responded to you never actually said what it was you were surprised by, so I probably misinterpreted what I was replying to.
 
He’s talking about the separating art from individual in the context of a question specifically about Morrissey and his far right views. He mentions those far right views. Yes he engages in a wider conversation as well but it can’t be divorced from the context of the question.

My surprise is the fact that he came out to bat for Morrissey of all people, it’s not a good look right now.
 
I’m curious to find out how his Latino fan base feels. I wonder if they even care? It also appears that his band has no problem supporting him.
I love the Smiths and most of Morrissey’s solo career. Didn’t buy his last proper album or his current covers release. Don’t have any intention on seeing him live but I will say, the last time I did see him was 4 years or so ago and his voice still sounded great!
 
Ginormousthumbs said:
I’m curious to find out how his Latino fan base feels. I wonder if they even care? It also appears that his band has no problem supporting him.
I love the Smiths and most of Morrissey’s solo career. Didn’t buy his last proper album or his current covers release. Don’t have any intention on seeing him live but I will say, the last time I did see him was 4 years or so ago and his voice still sounded great!
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His last proper album broke it for me, it’s horrendous and his toxic politics found their way into his lyrics and surprise surprise he stopped coming across as witty and instead sounded like a boring old racist...
 
Stop watching the news
Because the news contrives to frighten you
To make you feel small and alone
To make you feel that your mind isn't your own

🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮
 
sorcerer said:
I'd pay $25 to see him and Interpol live if it meant a good show. If he starts spouting off his politics kanye-style in the middle of the show, then I can leave with at least having seen a good Interpol performance.

I really couldn't care less what he does with what he earns from me. It seems like all of the institutions he's donated to have to deal with animal rights (the worst of which being PETA,) and none of that is really bad enough to keep me up at night.

To me he's just another crusty old dude with immature and outdated politics. By the time I'm as old as he is, he'll be dead and barely anyone will care about his politics by that point.

Also, I dont even listen to him, but I think you're unfairly grouping casual fans and stans together.

Morrissey stans will sit there and defend their favorite artist's opinions and actions endlessly because they're deluded into thinking Morrissey cares more about them than he does a casual fan. They idolize the artist more than they do the music. Stans, while in the minority in most (if not all) fanbases, are the most vocal of the bunch and will appear bigger than they are. You can see this in action on the K-pop side of Twitter.

Casual fans of Morrissey are basically the same as casual fans of any other artist. Many of them may not even know Morrissey's politics because they dont keep up with this news cycle of celebrity drama. Many fans that do know his politics likely disagree with it but still listen to his music because they can phase his personal beliefs out when they listen to his music.

There are also fans in this thread who are having a tough time separating Morrissey's politics from his music, which is completely fine.

Theres a lot of grey area in an artist's fanbase. Grouping all of the fans of any fanbase together under one stereotype isn't something I can agree with.

If I ever do listen to a Morrissey album, I will listen to it as an album in its own secluded box in time. Not as an extension of the Morrissey that exists in mid-2019. This is how I treat music with every other artist, and I intend to maintain this way of appreciating art because I feel it works for me the best.
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I'll take 'What Is The Most Number Of Times The Word Stan Was Used In A Post Not About Someone Named Stan' for $600, Alex. 10376
 
I haven't really listened to the last couple of Morrissey releases, but his terrible politics haven't ruined his earlier music for me. I agree with the Nick Cave/Paul Banks argument that political differences should not lead to a complete blacklisting. I think Morrissey is trying as always to get attention and publicity by being a contrarian and this is what it looks like in 2019. I don't really have the need to financially support him at this point, as a live act he is far from his best lately. I might consider the Interpol tour if it stopped in LA because that would be a night full of songs that I love.

I have loved ones that have political views that I don't agree with and find despicable. These are intelligent, educated people and when we really get down to it a lot of their views stem from racism and xenophobia. It pains me that they are like this, but it won't stop me from attending family functions or caring about them as people as I know they care about me.

I used to be a huge R. Kelly fan. Bought his records, saw him live on numerous occasions. It embarrasses me now, knowing the pain and trauma he has inflicted on others with his actions. With Moz it is just words.

Also, I like Brandon Flowers a lot. He's never been one to engage very much politically. I see him as an entertainer with a conservative background and totally get why he would want to tip-toe around some sensitive political topics. Sure the Killers have never made a great album, but they have a ton of good tunes and I love his voice. His most recent solo record is probably my favorite front to back thing that he has done.
 
sorcerer said:
There used to be this account on twitter that went viral a few weeks ago called kpop disliker. Basically all the account would do is post in bad grammar about how he "doesn't rreally like kpop that much man" and in the replies to every single tweet were hundreds of kpop stans spamming dancing videos and saying "stan (insert favorite kpop artist here.)"

He eventually made an instagram too, but since the kpop army couldn't spam dancing gifs they started spamming kpop lyrics in the comments on all of his posts.

Both have been taken down after being spammed with reports by the kpop army.
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There's also the Stan's that post on celebrity death announcement/ mass tragedy tweets with "They'd still be alive if they stanned "X" "

Fuck them
 
Ginormousthumbs said:
I’m curious to find out how his Latino fan base feels. I wonder if they even care?
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My friend in Texas who is Latina used to adore Moz and all that he did, from the Smiths onward. Massive collector of his music, including crazy expensive vinyl sets.

She has pretty much written him off at this point. Yes, she likes his old music - but really detests who he has become as a person.
 
McGlam said:
I haven't really listened to the last couple of Morrissey releases, but his terrible politics haven't ruined his earlier music for me. I agree with the Nick Cave/Paul Banks argument that political differences should not lead to a complete blacklisting.
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I feel the same way, which probably places me in the Nick Cave camp. I personally don't like the policy of "burying" someone's art whenever a person says or is accused of doing something bad (i.e. the Louis CK treatment), and I don't have a hard time separating art from artist.

At the same time, I don't think separating art from artist is necessarily the "right" thing to do. If the MJ documentary makes it impossible for you to enjoy MJ, then I cannot tell you that you are "wrong" for feeling that way. To the contrary: I realize my high tolerance for bad people's art probably makes me a worse person. But if I'm still able to enjoy the art (like the Smiths discography), then that's what I'll keep doing.
 
What I will do is stop spending money in a way that supports that artist.

Even if that means buying a used record or cd. I’m certainly not buying a ticket to one of their concerts!
 
djdavedk said:
What I will do is stop spending money in a way that supports that artist.

Even if that means buying a used record or cd. I’m certainly not buying a ticket to one of their concerts!
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Used is the way to go with the good soloMorrissey albums too seeing as his better ones were either butchered by him for their reissues or remain out of print...
 
There’s just a ton of music & bands/artists out there who aren’t espousing these views. That’s the starting point for me. Yes, I loved the Smiths when I was younger, but does that mean I have to balance being an apologist for this behavior now? Not for me. I guess I’d suggest each time you reach for a Morrissey record to listen to, grab a Billy Bragg album instead.
 
I didn’t need to be a vegetarian to enjoy the smiths or feel a burning desire to storm the palace with a pitchfork in 1986

Therefore I don’t feel the need to join him on the far right touch lines to appreciate his solo work. His covers album is excellent imo , and his voice is superb on it.

Now if only he would stop giving interviews ...

And who the feck made Billy Bragg the moral guardian of music ..you’d have thought he had learnt his lesson with Red Wedge ...

If we boycott musicians for unsavoury deeds or gosh,”views” expressed at some time , that’s Clapton, Bowie , Page , Chuck Berry, James Brown , Elvis ...and even the Beatles on the bonfire ...
 
I certainly don't support an organized boycott of an artist, and I don't need Billy to tell me what to do. But that said, I will not knowingly give money to Moz (thats easy since I had no intention of buying his record or seeing him live.)

It is easy to make things black and white when you don't enjoy an artist anymore. I can just as easily say people shouldn't support convicted assaulter Chris Brown, but I could not tell you the name of one of his songs.

What am I trying to say? I am not sure anymore. I guess if you enjoy a musicians work and are comfortable with who they are, good on you. I enjoy the art of many flawed people. But I still think Moz is a twat, always has been and always will be.
 
Gavaxeman said:
I didn’t need to be a vegetarian to enjoy the smiths or feel a burning desire to storm the palace with a pitchfork in 1986

Therefore I don’t feel the need to join him on the far right touch lines to appreciate his solo work. His covers album is excellent imo , and his voice is superb on it.

Now if only he would stop giving interviews ...

And who the feck made Billy Bragg the moral guardian of music ..you’d have thought he had learnt his lesson with Red Wedge ...

If we boycott musicians for unsavoury deeds or gosh,”views” expressed at some time , that’s Clapton, Bowie , Page , Chuck Berry, James Brown , Elvis ...and even the Beatles on the bonfire ...
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Billy Bragg is entitled to his opinions and was speaking as a fan of Moz's music. Not sure why you're having a go at him or what a collective of artists trying to engage the youth in progressive politics has to do with it either tbh!
 
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Captainfog said:
Billy Bragg is entitled to his opinions and was speaking as a fan of Moz's music. Not sure why you're having a go at him or what a collective of artists trying to engage the youth in progressive politics has to do with it either tbh!
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I think even Billy Bragg regrets Red Wedge ..certainly Paul Weller does. Party politics and music don’t mix. All for encouraging people to vote. But Bragg telling young people to vote Labour in the 80’s is no different to Morrissey stating vote Britain First now
 
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