Equipment Recommendations - The Home For New System and Upgrade Advice
- Thread starter Joe Mac
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trickyseven
Well-Known Member
That is awesome, congrats! I've been using my dad's old Kenwood KR 3130 amp and it's been solid. Seems like they made a good product. I can only imagine how good the rest of their product line was.
This is where a lack of knowledge of vintage gear can really hurt you.
You don't want "any Marantz". Marantz made some great stuff. They also made some garbage. You've got to seperate the wheat from the chaff.
Anything Marantz with vacuum tubes is "true" Marantz, built in New York by Saul Marantz before he sold to Superscope in Japan. All of this gear is stellar and demands high prices. And it's worth it.
The Marantz gear built in the US in the late '60s-early '70s was quite good as well- something like a Model 18 receiver.
The Superscope Marantz gear built in Japan between 1974-1978 is what many think of as classic Marantz. It's easy to find restored examples. It's also extremely easy to over pay. They are nice, but not worth the premium one will pay to get a good one. I'm talking something like a 22xx series receiver here.
After these models, Superscope sold Marantz and the junk started rolling in. Marantz has had 5-6 owners through the years. Still there are some good amplifiers in the post Superscope years- but no great receivers. If you come across a Marantz amplifier that has "KI" at the end of the model, snatch that up. And I'd take a KI over any Superscope built model.
Getting into the '90s-2000s- there were great amps and there was junk as well. It's on a model/series by model/series basis.
As much as I like vintage Marantz- a good 22xx restored will likely cost $1300 and up. Mostly and up. And for that money, I'll recommend a modern amplifier- every day and twice on Sunday.
Concept is a brand I'd heard of, but I've never seen one in the wild. They were the house brand of Pacific Stereo.
The story is that no magazine would review one because they out performed the "big names"- Pioneer, Marantz, Sansui, etc. and the magazines didn't want to upset the big companies and risk losing advertisers.
dansomeone
Well-Known Member
I read that Pacific Stereo didn't want to upset those big names too, as they sold all of them and didn't want to lose their business. Pacific had stores in Chicagoland, where my dad bought his Concept in 1978, along with a Pioneer turntable which I am also running, and some Infinity speakers which are long gone. The Concept 6.5 is a beast, it weighs over 50 pounds and powers my Wharfedale Dentons easily. And, the mahogany vinyl wrap on the receiver matches the mahogany wood veneer on the speakers perfectly. It's like they were made for each other.
High Rant District
Active Member
@brownsugah Vintage gear can be very cool. However, especially when dealing with less expensive vintage that hasn't been 100% rebuilt by a serious professional, you have to understand that the units are temporary. Temporary can mean they'll last 5 years with no issues, or 5 days.
I've been through a few Marantz 22xx receivers and loved their sound, until something went wrong. Finding a place to fix the problems is a tough task, and usually the cost to repair will exceed the price you paid for the less-expensive vintage piece. SO the money you spent is gone.
I enjoy vintage mid-fi stuff. My current primary turntable is a Harman Kardon T65C plugged into a Harman Kardon 730 receiver along with some Dynaco A25 speakers. I dig the concept of playing my primarily older records on a system that they would have been played on when the records first came out. That's just me. That said, though the 730 has two phono inputs, I actually use an external phono preamp (Parasound, ~$200-ish) and it sounds much better than the preamps in the HK 730.
I'm also aware that the receiver is an old unit doing a lot of things, and it's on borrowed time. Having gone through a number of vintage pieces, if I'm going to spend more than a few hundred on a replacement unit when my current setup has issues, I'll probably go with brand new gear (I'm always keeping an eye on Schitt).
Long story longer, I think the person who recommended you'd get the best improvement by just adding an external phono preamp hit the nail on the head. The latest Schitt Mani phono preamp is well-regarded and relatively inexpensive.
I've been through a few Marantz 22xx receivers and loved their sound, until something went wrong. Finding a place to fix the problems is a tough task, and usually the cost to repair will exceed the price you paid for the less-expensive vintage piece. SO the money you spent is gone.
I enjoy vintage mid-fi stuff. My current primary turntable is a Harman Kardon T65C plugged into a Harman Kardon 730 receiver along with some Dynaco A25 speakers. I dig the concept of playing my primarily older records on a system that they would have been played on when the records first came out. That's just me. That said, though the 730 has two phono inputs, I actually use an external phono preamp (Parasound, ~$200-ish) and it sounds much better than the preamps in the HK 730.
I'm also aware that the receiver is an old unit doing a lot of things, and it's on borrowed time. Having gone through a number of vintage pieces, if I'm going to spend more than a few hundred on a replacement unit when my current setup has issues, I'll probably go with brand new gear (I'm always keeping an eye on Schitt).
Long story longer, I think the person who recommended you'd get the best improvement by just adding an external phono preamp hit the nail on the head. The latest Schitt Mani phono preamp is well-regarded and relatively inexpensive.
@brownsugah This.
And keep in mind that due to everyone wanting a Marantz, the prices are horribly inflated.
The Harman/Kardon 730 mentioned above is a stellar performer, as were the 430 and 330.
Any of the above are better sounding than a Superscope Marantz and won't cost an arm and a leg.
@High Rant District I will bet your system sounds great. I've owned a 730 in the past, and my brother had a pair of A25s. I never got to try them together though.
I am with JoeMac on this one. Get the Pho8 and upgrade your preamp. My first setup had a similar Onkyo and the Pho8 was a huge improvement. That Pho8 beats any built in preamp I have put it up against and been a couple.
If you want vintage and save money with decent return I enjoyed the Pioner SX3700. They are fairly easy to find used too.
I have a Marantz PM8006 I got off ebay open box $850ish and I love it.
(Also 3 examples of internals that get good reviews the Pho8 beat out)
High Rant District
Active Member
They do the job (especially since getting the Grado Gold2 cartridge) and I enjoy the sound. It suits me.
For double the price of the Schiit Mani, do you get double the performance, or even, really, any better performance with the Vincent? Before Schiit (recently) made changes to the Mani so you don't have to potentially chase a hum, I'd understand going with Vincent. But now? For half the price and well-regarded customer service - in the same country as @brownsugah - in case something goes wrong, I don't see how the Vincent is a better value.
The Vincent has a real power supply as opposed to a wall wart. Also, I'd not call Schiit customer service anything to write home about- hit or miss is accurate.
But if under $200 is the budget, the Schiit is the best option.
I want to just chime in on the TX8050 external pre-amp convo.
I had a TX-8050 (similar to TX-8020 but a bit more power and networking). I first added the Vincent Pho-8 external pre-amp and had a significant jump in sound quality. Next step, I replaced the Onkyo with a NAD 326BEE amp and I was surprised by how improved the sound was. I like @HiFi Guy 's analogy of both a Ford Focus and a Porsche 911 can go 85 miles an hour but the Focus will struggle and the Porche will be smooth as butter.
Last step was replacing my Wharfedale Diamond 10.2 speaker with the ELAC F6 floor standers. I kinda regret this upgrade. Yes, they sound better, but I just liked the setup without the required floor space better. The NAD made my Wharfedale speakers sound really good. I think my next upgrade will be either bookshelves or the Klipsch Heresy speakers to get the smaller speakers back. My room is not that big.
I had a TX-8050 (similar to TX-8020 but a bit more power and networking). I first added the Vincent Pho-8 external pre-amp and had a significant jump in sound quality. Next step, I replaced the Onkyo with a NAD 326BEE amp and I was surprised by how improved the sound was. I like @HiFi Guy 's analogy of both a Ford Focus and a Porsche 911 can go 85 miles an hour but the Focus will struggle and the Porche will be smooth as butter.
Last step was replacing my Wharfedale Diamond 10.2 speaker with the ELAC F6 floor standers. I kinda regret this upgrade. Yes, they sound better, but I just liked the setup without the required floor space better. The NAD made my Wharfedale speakers sound really good. I think my next upgrade will be either bookshelves or the Klipsch Heresy speakers to get the smaller speakers back. My room is not that big.
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Mather
Unknown Member
Hey guys, a buddy of mine just picked up a Fluance with the Onkyo 8020 and the Elac Debut 2.0s. I'm just wondering, what do d think about the pre amp setup, user the Fluance on board stage or disable that and use the Onkyo on board? And also in terms of impedance settings is there anything he needs to do with the amp for that? The speakers are 6 ohm I believe... Cheers!
Mather
Unknown Member
Thank you as always for your informed informative information!
brownsugah
Well-Known Member
Out of curiosity, how does the sound of the Schiit Mani and Vincent Pho-8 compare to each other?
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displayname
Well-Known Member
Try both phonostages. They might be similar, but if both are on hand, why not try both.
displayname
Well-Known Member
Based on the design of the external power supply on the Vincent, I would expect a lower noise floor at the very least. Not sure about their sonic signatures though.
folsom_lives
pretty_lil_dirt_boi
So I'm not really looking for giant leaps in upgrades for the time being but I'm just try to get a feel for what the weak links in my system are.
I know in the short term I'd like to upgrade my power cables for my NAD and Pho8 and look into a Panamax power conditioner.
I'm also looking at the Grado Gold (but looking at replacement costs of $150 each time I need a new stylus kind of scares me off).
I think my next big jump after these would be a new turntable but I don't really have a budget. Really dig the MoFi Studio/Ultradeck but the price on the Ultradeck is a bit much in the short term.
Overall I'm happy with what I have, just looking at small/cheap tweaks to give a noticeable improvement.
I know in the short term I'd like to upgrade my power cables for my NAD and Pho8 and look into a Panamax power conditioner.
I'm also looking at the Grado Gold (but looking at replacement costs of $150 each time I need a new stylus kind of scares me off).
I think my next big jump after these would be a new turntable but I don't really have a budget. Really dig the MoFi Studio/Ultradeck but the price on the Ultradeck is a bit much in the short term.
Overall I'm happy with what I have, just looking at small/cheap tweaks to give a noticeable improvement.
Joe Mac
Well-Known Member
$150 seems steep for the gold stylus, that’s the price point where I thought the 8mz fell. That said around there is going to be the stylus replacement cost for a nice sounding cart, I know the 2m blue is in that ballpark too!
folsom_lives
pretty_lil_dirt_boi
That's what I'm wrestling with. The replacement Gold and 8mz styli are both $150 so that seems kind of moot. So buy the Gold, wait until I need a new stylus and get 8mz... Seems weird that the 8mz wouldn't be more or the Gold less? IDK.