Equipment Recommendations - The Home For New System and Upgrade Advice

[Joe Mac]

I can't speak for the Marantz, but I'm fairly confident the Cambridge units will be bested by an external phono in $300+ range. They put a heavy focus on the DACs for those units.

I think most units under a grand will be to be honest just on costings alone. That said i could live with the phono stage on something like the marantz 8006 for an amount of time while I saved for an external as an upgrade. The better amp is worth it in the long run rather than trying to squeeze it all into an initial right here right now budget. There isn’t a phono stage built into a turntable that I’ve encountered yet that I’d live with at all.

 

[Haimez40]

I have the Marantz PM8006 and really like it. I will say I prefer the Vincent Pho8 over its internal preamp. I also got it refurb off ebay for nice discount and it looked brand new. I would totally suggest that if you go that route. Been awhile but I dont remember the difference between PM8005 and 06. I know main difference was phono stage which I dont use. I know it was close for me but went 06 due to the ebay price.

 

[debianlinux]

Currently running a NAD 3020PE. I was led to believe that the Phono stages on these are quite good and that there was no real benefit to replacing ti with anything modest (say PHO-8 or below). Is there consensus here on that take?

 

[boyeatzworld]

Sounds like you're in for some fun upgrades! In your price range, I would certainly consider the new Polk L200 as well. I haven't heard them yet, but it's the successor to the highly praised LSiM line, and all reviews have been very positive so far. I'm on a list to hopefully get a demo around the end of the year/early next year. I'm hoping to get ears on them before the end of the year.

As for the phono preamp, I think this is often the most overlooked but highly important parts of the vinyl chain. The phonostage has to bring the very low signal from the stylus up to line level, which then feeds into your amp and the rest of the system. Your cartridge and TT are trying to extract as much information from the record as possible, and then the phonostage is trying to "expand" that information with as little interference or loss as possible. A lot of detail can be lost in the phonostage, and a lot of depth, tone, texture and detail can go with it. And anything that is lost (or added) from the phonostage will be amplified as the signal moves through the rest of your system.

Honestly, with what you are planning to purchase, I would put a decent budget aside for the phonestage. I don't want to give you a percentage or formula, because it's just not that simple. But don't under credit the phonostage. If you need to get something simple for budget reasons to get started, that's understandable, but you can get SO much more out of your TT with a good phonostage.

As for amps, you have some great options laid out. One thing to consider, is what all do you NEED your amp to do. For example, the CXA81 does not have a phonostage, so you would need to budget for that. But it does have a nice DAC, so you wouldn't need to budget for that.
The PM8006 does have a phonostage, but doesn't have a DAC. So do you need one?
The Halo Hint 6 has a DAC and a phonostage built in, so much more of a single box solution.
Other factors are balanced connections, sub outs, tape outs, headphone jacks, etc.

Personally, I like amps that don't have many features. Just let me select my input and amplify my sound. The Kinki Studio EX-M1 would fall in your price range, but no phonostage, no DAC, no sub outs, no BT, nothing. Just pure amplification. There are loads of other options too. I'm just making the point to find your key features of an integreated amp, and we can go from there. But you're off to a great start with the lineup so far. The only other thing I'd suggest is consider the MasterTracker vs UltraTracker if you're comfortable with the price difference. Getting it with the table is the cheapest you'll probably ever get it.

This is suuuuper helpful, thanks! I currently only us my system for listening to wax so I guess I don't strictly need a DAC (I could always buy one later if I wanted to use the system for more). I think I am pretty sold now on getting a phonostage. My thought was getting an amp that had one built in would eliminate the need for one but that seems to not really be the case. Lurking around the forum it seems like folks are pretty big fans of Sunderland, so started to look into those.

Those Polk speakers seem sweet, and I will definitely consider those as well. Really just having trouble settling on the amp. Lets say I purchase a Sunderland Insight phono. My question then is how much better will the system sound with a Marantz amp that costs about a grand vs a Parasound Hint 6. Everything I have read seems to suggest that it blows it out of the water (and for the price I guess you'd expect it). I am fine spending a bit of money on the system. I want to get it right the first time and find products that I won't feel the need to upgrade for a long, long time (speakers aside). I just don't really know how to judge amps as I do my research in terms of how much of an upgrade on the final sound output I will be getting as the price increases especially if I add a phonostage into the pipeline.

 

[displayname]

This is suuuuper helpful, thanks! I currently only us my system for listening to wax so I guess I don't strictly need a DAC (I could always buy one later if I wanted to use the system for more). I think I am pretty sold now on getting a phonostage. My thought was getting an amp that had one built in would eliminate the need for one but that seems to not really be the case. Lurking around the forum it seems like folks are pretty big fans of Sunderland, so started to look into those.

Those Polk speakers seem sweet, and I will definitely consider those as well. Really just having trouble settling on the amp. Lets say I purchase a Sunderland Insight phono. My question then is how much better will the system sound with a Marantz amp that costs about a grand vs a Parasound Hint 6. Everything I have read seems to suggest that it blows it out of the water (and for the price I guess you'd expect it). I am fine spending a bit of money on the system. I want to get it right the first time and find products that I won't feel the need to upgrade for a long, long time (speakers aside). I just don't really know how to judge amps as I do my research in terms of how much of an upgrade on the final sound output I will be getting as the price increases especially if I add a phonostage into the pipeline.

So the thing about amps is it's key to have good synergy with your speakers. I think it's wise to kind of shop for your speakers and amp together.
There's a few ways to go about this. They best way is listening. If you have a dealer (you should in NYC), great. Using smaller bookshelves like you plan to, you could honestly take the speakers with you to demo amps. Just call ahead and make an appointment. And if you find something you like, give them your business vs trying to save a few bucks online. It can pay dividends in the future.

If you don't have access to any dealers, leveraging companies with 30 day trials (no questions returns) would work well too. If you're comfortable with it, the real dream would be buying both units, and sending back the one you feel wasn't the best fit. But in general, specs are a decent starting point. A 10 watt tube amp isn't going to get it done for most of the speakers you are considering, so you're on good track with that. I think you have good options in line for everything you're considering.

You can also go on forums and review sites and see who's compared what to what. I think Steve Guttenberg and Darko on YouTube would be good reviewers for you to look into. Both do a good job of mentioning amp pairings with their reviews, and they both reference the LS50 regularly for context on both speaker and amp reviews.

*Edit - personally I'd prefer a $2K amp with fewer features vs a $3K amp that's a jack of all trades. But that's just me, others feel the complete opposite.

 

[apholden]

Check out HiFi shark for Sutherland stuff. It doesn't come up used too often, but when it does, you can usually get one for the same price as the next model down.

 

[apholden]

Each price range seems to have a preferred model or two. For $100, many of us like the U-Turn Pluto or Schiit Mani, although some integrateds can compete with these. For $300, I hear good things about the Vincent Pho-8. For $800 and up, we tend to pick the best Sutherland we can afford.

 

[Joe Mac]

Each price range seems to have a preferred model or two. For $100, many of us like the U-Turn Pluto or Schiit Mani, although some integrateds can compete with these. For $300, I hear good things about the Vincent Pho-8. For $800 and up, we tend to pick the best Sutherland we can afford.

I’m going to throw my Musical Fidelity MX-VYNL In there. It’s a really great value phono stage @ £649 I paid for it (or even the £700 list price). It’s probably a little over at the $1000 it’s listed at in the US but I’d back it to compete with any others at that price. I’m going to be contrarian, when am I not, and say that my grail phono stage would be their Nu Vista rather than a Sutherland.

This is suuuuper helpful, thanks! I currently only us my system for listening to wax so I guess I don't strictly need a DAC (I could always buy one later if I wanted to use the system for more). I think I am pretty sold now on getting a phonostage. My thought was getting an amp that had one built in would eliminate the need for one but that seems to not really be the case. Lurking around the forum it seems like folks are pretty big fans of Sunderland, so started to look into those.

Those Polk speakers seem sweet, and I will definitely consider those as well. Really just having trouble settling on the amp. Lets say I purchase a Sunderland Insight phono. My question then is how much better will the system sound with a Marantz amp that costs about a grand vs a Parasound Hint 6. Everything I have read seems to suggest that it blows it out of the water (and for the price I guess you'd expect it). I am fine spending a bit of money on the system. I want to get it right the first time and find products that I won't feel the need to upgrade for a long, long time (speakers aside). I just don't really know how to judge amps as I do my research in terms of how much of an upgrade on the final sound output I will be getting as the price increases especially if I add a phonostage into the pipeline.

I mean you are playing a whole different game with the Parasound, it’s going to sound much better but it should, it’s costs a hell of a lot more! To be honest at that money I’d be tempted to play with tubes (I love tubes) and look at the Prima Luna integrated tube amps that are beloved in this parish.

So the thing about amps is it's key to have good synergy with your speakers. I think it's wise to kind of shop for your speakers and amp together.
There's a few ways to go about this. They best way is listening. If you have a dealer (you should in NYC), great. Using smaller bookshelves like you plan to, you could honestly take the speakers with you to demo amps. Just call ahead and make an appointment. And if you find something you like, give them your business vs trying to save a few bucks online. It can pay dividends in the future.

If you don't have access to any dealers, leveraging companies with 30 day trials (no questions returns) would work well too. If you're comfortable with it, the real dream would be buying both units, and sending back the one you feel wasn't the best fit. But in general, specs are a decent starting point. A 10 watt tube amp isn't going to get it done for most of the speakers you are considering, so you're on good track with that. I think you have good options in line for everything you're considering.

You can also go on forums and review sites and see who's compared what to what. I think Steve Guttenberg and Darko on YouTube would be good reviewers for you to look into. Both do a good job of mentioning amp pairings with their reviews, and they both reference the LS50 regularly for context on both speaker and amp reviews.

*Edit - personally I'd prefer a $2K amp with fewer features vs a $3K amp that's a jack of all trades. But that's just me, others feel the complete opposite.

I think it depends on the amp, the cost and the reviews. The higher you go up the range the more likely it can do everything well. I’m glad that I have one box that I can connect everything into as both a DAC and preamp but then I suppose I’m benefiting on the other side with two mono power amps.

 

[displayname]

I think it depends on the amp, the cost and the reviews. The higher you go up the range the more likely it can do everything well. I’m glad that I have one box that I can connect everything into as both a DAC and preamp but then I suppose I’m benefiting on the other side with two mono power amps.

I only tossed out reviewers in this case because most of the stuff being considered is highly reviewed, and often compared to each other. But your set up is a prefect example of the endless options available. Lots of flavors, and lots and lots of "right" answers.

 

[apholden]

Thanks @Joe Mac for the suggestion. I suspect Sutherland became so beloved because we all listened to each other's reviews, bought one, and then added our own praise. Maybe your post will give them a little competition!

 

[Joe Mac]

Thanks @Joe Mac for the suggestion. I suspect Sutherland became so beloved because we all listened to each other's reviews, bought one, and then added our own praise. Maybe your post will give them a little competition!

I’ve no doubt the Sutherland gear is exceptional, I trust @HiFi Guy and @AnthonyI ears! There is other great gear out there too though beyond this two companies and I think it’s more interesting when we all have slightly different flavours, it’d be really boring if we all just had the N&G approved system. The other thing is geographical availability. Getting a lot of American gear over here can be a pain in the arse, particularly when it come to Sutherland. That combined with a historically very strong, but much smaller company size, set of UK hifi manufacturers makes us go a bit of a different way.

 

[phramenma]

BIS Vivat cables and BIS Maestro AC cables made a massive difference in the presence and depth of my systems audio. But the AC cables I'm sorry to say did make a big difference...

There is kind of three ways to go about approaching cables - word of mouth, buying used to A/B at home, or working with a dealer closely.
If you're looking at going full loom at a decent price point, you might be able to get a dealer that will either come to your place or let you do some A/B testing at their shop.

I also have to agree with @Mather and @displayname , cables due make a difference and the power cables were a surprise to me, but toss them in the mix. For what it's worth, I have Pangea SE MKII Signature Power Cables on everything, Zu Audio LIBTEC speaker cables and Pangea Audio Premier SE Interconnects and turntable cables, all are stellar

Thank you all for your quick and kind responses.
Since I'm based in Europe, there might be some slight differences regarding cable manufacturers.
My dad's dealer is running Tellurium and I might be able to get one of those for a little less - but boy are these expensive (Q Ultra Black II, RRP 2400€)...
I could get some used "Goldnote - Siena Extra" (RRP 2000€) from the seller for cheap money though I've never heard of them but the seller is praising them - having tested different cables himself (including some Telluriums) and ended up with the ones from GoldNote.
If anyone could point me in one direction, I'd be happy.
My dad just picked up my apes (O/96) for me and he'll be visiting me next week - so stay tuned.

 

[phramenma]

Thank you all for your quick and kind responses.
Since I'm based in Europe, there might be some slight differences regarding cable manufacturers.
My dad's dealer is running Tellurium and I might be able to get one of those for a little less - but boy are these expensive (Q Ultra Black II, RRP 2400€)...
I could get some used "Goldnote - Siena Extra" (RRP 2000€) from the seller for cheap money though I've never heard of them but the seller is praising them - having tested different cables himself (including some Telluriums) and ended up with the ones from GoldNote.
If anyone could point me in one direction, I'd be happy.
My dad just picked up my apes (O/96) for me and he'll be visiting me next week - so stay tuned.

@Joe Mac Any thoughts since you're based in the EU - at least for a few more days?

 

[Joe Mac]

@Joe Mac Any thoughts since you're based in the EU - at least for a few more days?

I’m in Ireland, Boris may think that they still rule us but we’re nearly a century independent now and resolutely staying with you guys. Although that said I was born and brought up in England and didn't leave until I was 24 but am an Irish citizen through my mum. Oh wait, this wasn’t about me? It was about cables?

I use these interconnects, they made a huge difference when I upgraded to them

https://www.vandenhul.com/product/the-integration-hybrid-halogen-free/

I still have very modest speakers so I haven’t upgraded them cables yet but when I do I’m plannign on these on the recommendation of someome I trust on these things

The TEATRACK HYBRID (halogen fr.) - Van den Hul B.V. - High End Cables, Phono Cartridges and Electronics

The TEATRACK HYBRID is a member of our quadruple lead, bi-wiring loudspeaker cable range.

www.vandenhul.com

again I’ve not upgraded my power cables bur again on the recommendation of same trusted source I’ll be going for these when I do

Russ Andrews - Hi-Fi mains and cable specialist

Leading manufacturer and retailer of Hi-Fi mains cables, mains conditioning products and Kimber Kable interconnects and speaker cable. Est 1986.

www.russandrews.com

 

[phramenma]

I’m in Ireland, Boris may think that they still rule us but we’re nearly a century independent now and resolutely staying with you guys. Although that said I was born and brought up in England and didn't leave until I was 24 but am an Irish citizen through my mum. Oh wait, this wasn’t about me? It was about cables?

I use these interconnects, they made a huge difference when I upgraded to them

https://www.vandenhul.com/product/the-integration-hybrid-halogen-free/

I still have very modest speakers so I haven’t upgraded them cables yet but when I do I’m plannign on these on the recommendation of someome I trust on these things

The TEATRACK HYBRID (halogen fr.) - Van den Hul B.V. - High End Cables, Phono Cartridges and Electronics

The TEATRACK HYBRID is a member of our quadruple lead, bi-wiring loudspeaker cable range.

www.vandenhul.com

again I’ve not upgraded my power cables bur again on the recommendation of same trusted source I’ll be going for these when I do

Russ Andrews - Hi-Fi mains and cable specialist

Leading manufacturer and retailer of Hi-Fi mains cables, mains conditioning products and Kimber Kable interconnects and speaker cable. Est 1986.

www.russandrews.com

Sad times that we are living in, but I'm still keeping my hopes up that there will be an exit from Brexit...
But good to see that the Irish are more reasonable.

Van Den Hul does ring a bell although I can't put it together yet - maybe it was their cartridges...
Will check these out, but might just end up with the ones from the seller and see how I like it or if I need a change at some point.

 

[Joe Mac]

Sad times that we are living in, but I'm still keeping my hopes up that there will be an exit from Brexit...
But good to see that the Irish are more reasonable. ☘

Van Den Hul does ring a bell although I can't put it together yet - maybe it was their cartridges...
Will check these out, but might just end up with the ones from the seller and see how I like it or if I need a change at some point.

what I will say is that the van den hul that I linked to there are excellent in my system but they are absolutely paupers cables in comparison to those that the crazy Canadian cable fetishist @Mather has

that said van den hul do also do bank breaking cables too...

All things considered there is a big difference from cheap to €50ish and another from that to these kind and then after that it really is silly money before you notice it!

 

[phramenma]

what I will say is that the van den hul that I linked to there are excellent in my system but they are absolutely paupers cables in comparison to those that the crazy Canadian cable fetishist @Mather has

that said van den hul do also do bank breaking cables too...

All things considered there is a big difference from cheap to €50ish and another from that to these kind and then after that it really is silly money before you notice it!

I'm way beyond silly already - and broke...

 

[Joe Mac]

I'm way beyond silly already - and broke...

tell me about it. I have a daft amplification set up that’s miles beyond the rest of my system, I’m hoping that I can afford some speakers to compliment it in about 18 months...

 

[AnthonyI]

I’ve no doubt the Sutherland gear is exceptional, I trust @HiFi Guy and @AnthonyI ears! There is other great gear out there too though beyond this two companies and I think it’s more interesting when we all have slightly different flavours, it’d be really boring if we all just had the N&G approved system. The other thing is geographical availability. Getting a lot of American gear over here can be a pain in the arse, particularly when it come to Sutherland. That combined with a historically very strong, but much smaller company size, set of UK hifi manufacturers makes us go a bit of a different way.

I agree with you actually, the rub is this, if demoing units was an easier task for me I would do that and form my own opinion, but since I don't have that luxury and the price tag on said unit goes north of $1K, I gotta go with a trusted sources and ears. When the price tag goes way up (PrimaLuna) we buck up and take the road trip to the nearest dealer and give it a listen. That being said, I am glad I actually took the journey on the pre-amp, it helped me a lot and gave me a good understanding of how different units can be at different price points, the Pluto to Insight and the 3 in between, was a fun trek

But like I said, I agree with you, since we are such a tight knit and pretty honest and open group when it comes to gear, its always nice to get opinions/options from a wider pool.

 

[Mather]

what I will say is that the van den hul that I linked to there are excellent in my system but they are absolutely paupers cables in comparison to those that the crazy Canadian cable fetishist @Mather has

that said van den hul do also do bank breaking cables too...

All things considered there is a big difference from cheap to €50ish and another from that to these kind and then after that it really is silly money before you notice it!

Yeah I mean I went nuts BUT that was mainly because I have a likely limited time period to acquire as much as I can at 50% off MSRP, I've only got the deal as long as the cousin is working at his current job. So I went crazy with end game purchases because I may never get this chance again... Have a look at BIS though, they punch well above their weight. And with the exchange rate I'd be willing to bet you could get a lot of cables for "decent" prices...