Equipment Recommendations - The Home For New System and Upgrade Advice

SnowmaNick said:
Pure Direct turns off bass management. Your sub, the high pass filter on your mains, etc. Also it ignores any distance settings, which work like a balance knob.
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Aha okay that makes sense. Of course considering the fact that my current amp sounds like absolute ass with all these digital functions disabled, and the amp I am considering buying employs almost none of these bells and whistles, it does beg the question of just what in the hell I think I'm doing here.
 
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Mather said:
On that note, I did a test of my subwoofer with the usual 60hz crossover playing Fiona Apple "Sleep to Dream" due to its killer sub bass notes, and then disabled the sub and went full band to the L100s. Sub good down to 29 HZ, L100s only down to 40 HZ.

I really hoped I couldn't hear a difference.

Friends.... yeah. Big difference. That low chest rattling sub bass isn't there without the sub. It's subtle, but it really fills out the ultra low frequencies. A lot of tracks don't have those frequencies so that won't affect a lot of tunes but... the others.

Now a better amp will likely help the L100s in terms of lower bass clarity but nothing is going to make them extend to lower frequencies. So at this point I think I may have to at least hang on to the sub until after the amp just to see if the difference is as stark. But ugh, that means can't move the speakers out off the walls. PLAYING WITH SOUND IS FUN
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It’s seemingly all about trade offs at some point. As Bruce says “One step up and two steps back”. 😂

I think you’ll undoubtably notice a difference with the new amp but I can’t imagine it fully making up for the sub. Might close the gap a bit though.

The slightly lower stands wouldn’t help the L100’s fit under the screen so that maybe you could switch the right side around? Sorry if I missed your thoughts on that.
 
Slimwhit33 said:
It’s seemingly all about trade offs at some point. As Bruce says “One step up and two steps back”. 😂

I think you’ll undoubtably notice a difference with the new amp but I can’t imagine it fully making up for the sub. Might close the gap a bit though.

The slightly lower stands wouldn’t help the L100’s fit under the screen so that maybe you could switch the right side around? Sorry if I missed your thoughts on that.
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Sorry I can't even remember if I did answer that one. It's all a blur. I like the current stands, and if it came to it raising the screen it's doable, it's a pain but it's not too bad. I'd probably go that route. Those wooden ones you sent are quite nice but instead of spending the money I'd probably just go the screen route. I'm scouring online at Canuck Audio Mart and all the locals for anything used from Luxman/Accuphase/McIntosh/Lyngdorf that can compare to the Levinson at a similar price that I've been offered for the 5805 before I make a final decision. But in general anything on par is far far far above my budget up here. There's more available in your neck of the woods but after shipping, exchange, duty... It's pretty much double what I'd be paying for the Levinson. There's two things I'm considering in case I fire everything up and discover that it just can't overcome the room deficiencies without room correction. One, I can resell for more than it cost me most likely so that shouldn't be a big issue. Second slightly more exciting prospect .. I've floated the idea to my wife to winterize and reno the inside of our back garage to turn it into a dedicated listening room.
20230913_104146.jpg
Thats it there, current interior below.
20210813_122444.jpg
It's 500 square feet, it's got it's own breaker, I have to look into it but I think it's taken from the house mains, not certain. So it should have lots of power, pretty easy to insulate it and put some flooring and sound baffling down... a shitload of shelving for all the records and then the whole system goes in there along with the new amp. I'd be free to baffle it and do what I want to make things sound correct in there.

It's a bit of a long play and I'm not sure how quick I could do it, but it would give me an out if the amp doesn't work in the livingroom. I just save it for in there.
 
Slimwhit33 said:
It’s seemingly all about trade offs at some point. As Bruce says “One step up and two steps back”. 😂

I think you’ll undoubtably notice a difference with the new amp but I can’t imagine it fully making up for the sub. Might close the gap a bit though.

The slightly lower stands wouldn’t help the L100’s fit under the screen so that maybe you could switch the right side around? Sorry if I missed your thoughts on that.
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I am struggling why a 3 way speaker with 12" sub needs additional bass.
Maybe for movies with some glactica type sound effects.

Otherwise for music it's a very real sounding soundstage.
If someone wants to supplement this with more bass, I get it but it's going outside the parabolic curve for me.
 
Jbraswell said:
I am struggling why a 3 way speaker with 12" sub needs additional bass.
Maybe for movies with some glactica type sound effects.

Otherwise for music it's a very real sounding soundstage.
If someone wants to supplement this with more bass, I get it but it's going outside the parabolic curve for me.
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Well it's just that the sub goes 11 HZ lower than the L100s and on some music, specifically a lot of electronic tracks, trip hop, hip hop etc there's bass on there that hits below 40HZ that's not audible without it. It's certainly not every song, but it's definitely noticeable when I remove it. Is it totally necessary to enjoy the music? No, but it definitely adds to the sound to have it there. But no, my sub barely does anything, it just adds those ultra low frequencies. I'm sure everyone on here has mental images of my system sounding like the backseat of a 1993 Iroc, but it's not that at all, it's just got the added extension. But yes, if necessary I can lose it if the repositioning of the speakers makes that much of a difference with a new amp. If I go through with it I will try the amp with and without the sub, I'm willing to lose it. But I'm not going to sell it until after I can try it out in and out of the system.
 
Mather said:
Well it's just that the sub goes 11 HZ lower than the L100s and on some music, specifically a lot of electronic tracks, trip hop, hip hop etc there's bass on there that hits below 40HZ that's not audible without it. It's certainly not every song, but it's definitely noticeable when I remove it. Is it totally necessary to enjoy the music? No, but it definitely adds to the sound to have it there. But no, my sub barely does anything, it just adds those ultra low frequencies. I'm sure everyone on here has mental images of my system sounding like the backseat of a 1993 Iroc, but it's not that at all, it's just got the added extension. But yes, if necessary I can lose it if the repositioning of the speakers makes that much of a difference with a new amp. If I go through with it I will try the amp with and without the sub, I'm willing to lose it. But I'm not going to sell it until after I can try it out in and out of the system.
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My Z28 feels this post.

Yeah experimenting is part of the fun, but the soundstage will be really different.
 
Mather said:
Sorry I can't even remember if I did answer that one. It's all a blur. I like the current stands, and if it came to it raising the screen it's doable, it's a pain but it's not too bad. I'd probably go that route. Those wooden ones you sent are quite nice but instead of spending the money I'd probably just go the screen route. I'm scouring online at Canuck Audio Mart and all the locals for anything used from Luxman/Accuphase/McIntosh/Lyngdorf that can compare to the Levinson at a similar price that I've been offered for the 5805 before I make a final decision. But in general anything on par is far far far above my budget up here. There's more available in your neck of the woods but after shipping, exchange, duty... It's pretty much double what I'd be paying for the Levinson. There's two things I'm considering in case I fire everything up and discover that it just can't overcome the room deficiencies without room correction. One, I can resell for more than it cost me most likely so that shouldn't be a big issue. Second slightly more exciting prospect .. I've floated the idea to my wife to winterize and reno the inside of our back garage to turn it into a dedicated listening room.
View attachment 190967
Thats it there, current interior below.
View attachment 190968
It's 500 square feet, it's got it's own breaker, I have to look into it but I think it's taken from the house mains, not certain. So it should have lots of power, pretty easy to insulate it and put some flooring and sound baffling down... a shitload of shelving for all the records and then the whole system goes in there along with the new amp. I'd be free to baffle it and do what I want to make things sound correct in there.

It's a bit of a long play and I'm not sure how quick I could do it, but it would give me an out if the amp doesn't work in the livingroom. I just save it for in there.
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IF I HAD THAT ROOM THAT WOULD BE THE LONG GAME WITHOUT QUESTION. WHO CARES IF IT WORKS IN THE LIVING ROOM???? BUY IT FOR THAT ROOM WHILE YOU HAVE THE CHANCE!!!!!!!!!!
 
Mather said:
Well it's just that the sub goes 11 HZ lower than the L100s and on some music, specifically a lot of electronic tracks, trip hop, hip hop etc there's bass on there that hits below 40HZ that's not audible without it. It's certainly not every song, but it's definitely noticeable when I remove it. Is it totally necessary to enjoy the music? No, but it definitely adds to the sound to have it there. But no, my sub barely does anything, it just adds those ultra low frequencies. I'm sure everyone on here has mental images of my system sounding like the backseat of a 1993 Iroc, but it's not that at all, it's just got the added extension. But yes, if necessary I can lose it if the repositioning of the speakers makes that much of a difference with a new amp. If I go through with it I will try the amp with and without the sub, I'm willing to lose it. But I'm not going to sell it until after I can try it out in and out of the system.
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The sub should extend the whole soundstage too, no? Although that may be minimized by it being put in a spot it fits in instead of where the bass gaps in the room are.
 
Lee Newman said:
The sub should extend the whole soundstage too, no? Although that may be minimized by it being put in a spot it fits in instead of where the bass gaps in the room are.
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Well the sub isn't necessary for anything above about 60 HZ music wise, but a decent sub will do a better job in the really really low frequencies than a decent speakers woofer in general. So for music it's really just there for the ultra low stuff. For movies yes it does far far more. And the room correction fills in the gaps.
 
Joe Mac said:
Depending on its design class AB is still likely to be a pretty heavy drain on the electricity tbh.
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@Mather - Would you consider a Class D power amp for the JBLs to reduce your power draw?

This Mac is just an example, not necessarily a recommendation.

www.hifinews.com

McIntosh MI502 Class D Power Amp

With its rack-mount 'ears' and 2U chassis, Mac's MI502 amplifier has its sights set on the custom install market. But is this Class D powerhouse also a treat for purist stereophiles? It's not unusual to find consumer hi-fi hardware making some concessions to the custom installation (CI) space –...
www.hifinews.com www.hifinews.com
 
Angsty said:
@Mather - Would you consider a Class D power amp for the JBLs to reduce your power draw?

This Mac is just an example, not necessarily a recommendation.

www.hifinews.com

McIntosh MI502 Class D Power Amp

With its rack-mount 'ears' and 2U chassis, Mac's MI502 amplifier has its sights set on the custom install market. But is this Class D powerhouse also a treat for purist stereophiles? It's not unusual to find consumer hi-fi hardware making some concessions to the custom installation (CI) space –...
www.hifinews.com www.hifinews.com
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Limited current space makes a separate power and pre amp a tough proposition. I can't rack mount and really only have space for one unit. So I don't think it would fly. Currently...
 
Mather said:
Sorry I can't even remember if I did answer that one. It's all a blur. I like the current stands, and if it came to it raising the screen it's doable, it's a pain but it's not too bad. I'd probably go that route. Those wooden ones you sent are quite nice but instead of spending the money I'd probably just go the screen route. I'm scouring online at Canuck Audio Mart and all the locals for anything used from Luxman/Accuphase/McIntosh/Lyngdorf that can compare to the Levinson at a similar price that I've been offered for the 5805 before I make a final decision. But in general anything on par is far far far above my budget up here. There's more available in your neck of the woods but after shipping, exchange, duty... It's pretty much double what I'd be paying for the Levinson. There's two things I'm considering in case I fire everything up and discover that it just can't overcome the room deficiencies without room correction. One, I can resell for more than it cost me most likely so that shouldn't be a big issue. Second slightly more exciting prospect .. I've floated the idea to my wife to winterize and reno the inside of our back garage to turn it into a dedicated listening room.
View attachment 190967
Thats it there, current interior below.
View attachment 190968
It's 500 square feet, it's got it's own breaker, I have to look into it but I think it's taken from the house mains, not certain. So it should have lots of power, pretty easy to insulate it and put some flooring and sound baffling down... a shitload of shelving for all the records and then the whole system goes in there along with the new amp. I'd be free to baffle it and do what I want to make things sound correct in there.

It's a bit of a long play and I'm not sure how quick I could do it, but it would give me an out if the amp doesn't work in the livingroom. I just save it for in there.
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Room. Go for the room. Absolutely the best option. Plan on finishing it with insulation and drywall (all concrete can be a bit much), and that would/will be an amazing listening space/private retreat.

If the BetterHalfMather firmly says no, with what you’ve shared, I’d say go for a better receiver such as the Mac MHT300, or going 2.1 with a Lyngdorf/equivalent integrated with bass management and good room correction. The room seams to need EQ. A better pre/amp isn’t going to change the room acoustics and physics. And as much as I know passive room treatments and speaker setup make a gigantic difference, your room is limited in options.
 
Mather said:
Limited current space makes a separate power and pre amp a tough proposition. I can't rack mount and really only have space for one unit. So I don't think it would fly. Currently...
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Perhaps I misunderstood. I thought you’d use the Arcam as the preamp for the power amp. That still gets you room correction with a beefier amp.

This portion of the thread has gotten so convoluted that I may be mis-remembering what problem we were trying to solve. Nevermind…
 
Angsty said:
Perhaps I misunderstood. I thought you’d use the Arcam as the preamp for the power amp. That still gets you room correction with a beefier amp.

This portion of the thread has gotten so convoluted that I may be mis-remembering what problem we were trying to solve. Nevermind…
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Ohhh I get it. Right yes, that would work however the Arcam actually has enough power, I just want a dedicated 2 channel amp sans bells and whistles IF POSSIBLE.

But yes. It's convoluted, like my brain. But thanks everyone for the recommendations. I have a lot of options here and I'm gunna sort it out. If I can get full 100% wife approval on the drywall/insulation (slash heating slash AC that I'll also need in there) /steel door to protect all this shit/ complete bomb proof weather guard then that is definitely what I'll do. I don't really relish the idea of trudging out there in the middle of winter but it's probably the best option.
 
Mather said:
Ohhh I get it. Right yes, that would work however the Arcam actually has enough power, I just want a dedicated 2 channel amp sans bells and whistles IF POSSIBLE.

But yes. It's convoluted, like my brain. But thanks everyone for the recommendations. I have a lot of options here and I'm gunna sort it out. If I can get full 100% wife approval on the drywall/insulation (slash heating slash AC that I'll also need in there) /steel door to protect all this shit/ complete bomb proof weather guard then that is definitely what I'll do. I don't really relish the idea of trudging out there in the middle of winter but it's probably the best option.
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JUST DON’T LEAVE.
 
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