Thackeraye
Well-Known Member
The Linn also has room correction and a phono stage, which is a pretty big difference...
Equipment Recommendations - The Home For New System and Upgrade Advice
- Thread starter Joe Mac
- Start date
Bsdmr2
Well-Known Member
I am! With a Linn front end.
If I were you I’d go for the Linn if you just want one box to do all. The DACs can be upgraded and it’s modular. I’ve not heard it however!
But, if you aren’t intent on an all in one, then Naim offers better options I think for gradual multi box evolution.
In terms of sound, they will sound different. Linn is meant to be more analytical and detailed, Naim more energetic.
It also depends on what speakers you are powering and if one drives them better than the other.
Tyr
Well-Known Member
Here’s a fun little exercise:
If you had $25k-$30k to build a system from the ground up, what would you buy?
The caveat is that the system would be used for both digital and analog listening with an emphasis on vinyl. The system would also be in a medium sized retail space with a 50-60 person capacity. What would you do?
I’m sitting here writing a business plan for my 5 year plan. @HiFi Guy helped me build my personal system years ago and when I finally get to the point where I’m actually launching this business I’m going to try and convince them to come out and do a paid consulting gig to help me build out the system for the space. But in the meantime I thought it would be fun to see what everyone used the money for
If you had $25k-$30k to build a system from the ground up, what would you buy?
The caveat is that the system would be used for both digital and analog listening with an emphasis on vinyl. The system would also be in a medium sized retail space with a 50-60 person capacity. What would you do?
I’m sitting here writing a business plan for my 5 year plan. @HiFi Guy helped me build my personal system years ago and when I finally get to the point where I’m actually launching this business I’m going to try and convince them to come out and do a paid consulting gig to help me build out the system for the space. But in the meantime I thought it would be fun to see what everyone used the money for
Joe Mac
Well-Known Member
Here’s a fun little exercise:
If you had $25k-$30k to build a system from the ground up, what would you buy?
The caveat is that the system would be used for both digital and analog listening with an emphasis on vinyl. The system would also be in a medium sized retail space with a 50-60 person capacity. What would you do?
I’m sitting here writing a business plan for my 5 year plan. @HiFi Guy helped me build my personal system years ago and when I finally get to the point where I’m actually launching this business I’m going to try and convince them to come out and do a paid consulting gig to help me build out the system for the space. But in the meantime I thought it would be fun to see what everyone used the money for
So in euros and not including new tubes, cables and power conditioners…
Gold Note Mediterraneano X - €12200
Hana Unami Blue - €2500
Prima Luna Evo 100 Phono - €3900
Marantz SACD 30N - €2700
Prima Luna Evo 300 Integrated - €4500
Fyne Audio Vinage Classic XII - €10400
REL Classic 98 Sub x 2 - €3000
Total - €39,200.
Oh wait that’s blown the budget a little…
Tyr
Well-Known Member
All great recommendations but you’ve gone over budget by about $11k usd. HAHA! The CFO will not be pleased
Tyr
Well-Known Member
I’ve never had to fire myself before. This should be interesting.
Edit - also that Gold Note TT is gawgeous!
Mather
Unknown Member
This looks suspiciously like work...Here’s a fun little exercise:
If you had $25k-$30k to build a system from the ground up, what would you buy?
The caveat is that the system would be used for both digital and analog listening with an emphasis on vinyl. The system would also be in a medium sized retail space with a 50-60 person capacity. What would you do?
I’m sitting here writing a business plan for my 5 year plan. @HiFi Guy helped me build my personal system years ago and when I finally get to the point where I’m actually launching this business I’m going to try and convince them to come out and do a paid consulting gig to help me build out the system for the space. But in the meantime I thought it would be fun to see what everyone used the money for
Nee Lewman
बैस्टर्ड
Like what kind of retail space, because I’m doing different things with speakers if it’s a boutique shop versus it’s a music oriented store?Here’s a fun little exercise:
If you had $25k-$30k to build a system from the ground up, what would you buy?
The caveat is that the system would be used for both digital and analog listening with an emphasis on vinyl. The system would also be in a medium sized retail space with a 50-60 person capacity. What would you do?
I’m sitting here writing a business plan for my 5 year plan. @HiFi Guy helped me build my personal system years ago and when I finally get to the point where I’m actually launching this business I’m going to try and convince them to come out and do a paid consulting gig to help me build out the system for the space. But in the meantime I thought it would be fun to see what everyone used the money for
Also does the $30k include cabling and furniture or can I just spend it on components?
displayname
Well-Known Member
50-60 people in a retail environment? I would do what one of our local record stores does (Josey Records)
Stage on one side with a PA.
DJ booth on the other side with a PA.
Set it up so both PAs can be used as a single system with controls in the DJ booth.
If they have a performance in the shop, they turn it up and only use the PA on the stage side to draw everyone's attention that way. During normal business hours they either run music streaming off a computer or play records at a lower volume from both PAs. Creates a surprisingly comfortable shopping experience from anywhere in the shop. I think this could scale down to the shop size as needed and could be done in a more simple fashion well within budget. But I think the main key is having the PAs on both sides to create even room filling music through the shop that can be switched into purely a stage PA for focus.
Look at the additional pics on this first post for the stage.
Tyr
Well-Known Member
Great questions Lee. Think of it is a bar meets HiFi sort of space. And no, the $30k doesn’t include cabling or furniture. That’ll be a separate capital expense
I freaking LOVE this idea! My local shop (Peaches Records) does something similar but I never thought to have two separate systems in the space. The more I think about that the more I’m digging on the idea. Especially since the plan would be for the space to have a small separate stage in another area for regular Burlesque performances and the like.
Joe Mac
Well-Known Member
Oh wait commercial space? I was definitely more just having system building fun…
Probably make sure any decks are bulletproof direct drive monsters if they’re to be in constant use, likely get a pair of technics if it was me. Can always frame them up in nice wooden boxes if don’t fully want that look.
Probably make sure any decks are bulletproof direct drive monsters if they’re to be in constant use, likely get a pair of technics if it was me. Can always frame them up in nice wooden boxes if don’t fully want that look.
displayname
Well-Known Member
The bar meets Hifi sort of space is a concept I've heard of before and I know exists in some places. That would change my recommendations considerably, but I'm also not sure $30K really cuts it.Great questions Lee. Think of it is a bar meets HiFi sort of space. And no, the $30k doesn’t include cabling or furniture. That’ll be a separate capital expense
I freaking LOVE this idea! My local shop (Peaches Records) does something similar but I never thought to have two separate systems in the space. The more I think about that the more I’m digging on the idea. Especially since the plan would be for the space to have a small separate stage in another area for regular Burlesque performances and the like.
In my opinion for an actual hifi lounge to survive, it almost needs to follow a movie theater model. "Performance" aka dedicated listening sessions, door/cover fees, and fairly strict rules. You could have intermissions in between to allow for more talking and moving around, but I think you'd need dedicated focus times for people to really be quiet, focused, and stunned by the system or live performance.
And the reason I think $30K doesn't really cut it, is because you need something both visually and audibly impressive to justify coming into a space just to listen. I'm thinking Klipsch Jubilee, Tannoy Westminster, Avangarde. Something visually imposing that people NEVER see. And associated electronics and vinyl that are visually flashy. VPI table. Tube amps. Doesn't need to be those brands, but gear that you walk in and go "whoa, what IS that!" For this application, I don't think things like Magico and CH Pression make the cut. It's about the visual here as much as the music. They just don't have the wow factor that I think a hifi bar would demand. But either way, all WAY outside of budget.
I think if it's a "bar" your patrons are not going to be quiet or focused enough to enjoy the hifi system, so get a PA. Just the fact that someone is actively changing over a record and playing through full sides is enough of a gimmick to make a headline in a local review. We have/had a bar like this in Dallas (Off the Record) that used to have someone flipping records and they had a few bins of new and used vinyl for sale. Since covid it looks like they have fully converted into a traditional bar with bottle service and all. From what I can tell, no vinyl to be found. Just an old name that doesn't mean anything now.
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Edit: found a "throwback"
Joe Mac
Well-Known Member
The bar meets Hifi sort of space is a concept I've heard of before and I know exists in some places. That would change my recommendations considerably, but I'm also not sure $30K really cuts it.
In my opinion for an actual hifi lounge to survive, it almost needs to follow a movie theater model. "Performance" aka dedicated listening sessions, door/cover fees, and fairly strict rules. You could have intermissions in between to allow for more talking and moving around, but I think you'd need dedicated focus times for people to really be quiet, focused, and stunned by the system or live performance.
And the reason I think $30K doesn't really cut it, is because you need something both visually and audibly impressive to justify coming into a space just to listen. I'm thinking Klipsch Jubilee, Tannoy Westminster, Avangarde. Something visually imposing that people NEVER see. And associated electronics and vinyl that are visually flashy. VPI table. Tube amps. Doesn't need to be those brands, but gear that you walk in and go "whoa, what IS that!" For this application, I don't think things like Magico and CH Pression make the cut. It's about the visual here as much as the music. They just don't have the wow factor that I think a hifi bar would demand. But either way, all WAY outside of budget.
I think if it's a "bar" your patrons are not going to be quiet or focused enough to enjoy the hifi system, so get a PA. Just the fact that someone is actively changing over a record and playing through full sides is enough of a gimmick to make a headline in a local review. We have/had a bar like this in Dallas (Off the Record) that used to have someone flipping records and they had a few bins of new and used vinyl for sale. Since covid it looks like they have fully converted into a traditional bar with bottle service and all. From what I can tell, no vinyl to be found. Just an old name that doesn't mean anything now.
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As much as I love my tubes I’m not sure of tubes in a commercial setting, driving them that hard that often is going to cost a small fortune in tube replacements. Whatever you have does need to speak to drama though and things like physically big name speakers (something like the nautilus or blades could also do that in a more modern setting) and maybe physically large amps with things like VU meters or an odd design are definitely good ideas. You probably are going to end up doubling or trippling that budget!
Tyr
Well-Known Member
The bar meets Hifi sort of space is a concept I've heard of before and I know exists in some places. That would change my recommendations considerably, but I'm also not sure $30K really cuts it.
In my opinion for an actual hifi lounge to survive, it almost needs to follow a movie theater model. "Performance" aka dedicated listening sessions, door/cover fees, and fairly strict rules. You could have intermissions in between to allow for more talking and moving around, but I think you'd need dedicated focus times for people to really be quiet, focused, and stunned by the system or live performance.
And the reason I think $30K doesn't really cut it, is because you need something both visually and audibly impressive to justify coming into a space just to listen. I'm thinking Klipsch Jubilee, Tannoy Westminster, Avangarde. Something visually imposing that people NEVER see. And associated electronics and vinyl that are visually flashy. VPI table. Tube amps. Doesn't need to be those brands, but gear that you walk in and go "whoa, what IS that!" For this application, I don't think things like Magico and CH Pression make the cut. It's about the visual here as much as the music. They just don't have the wow factor that I think a hifi bar would demand. But either way, all WAY outside of budget.
I think if it's a "bar" your patrons are not going to be quiet or focused enough to enjoy the hifi system, so get a PA. Just the fact that someone is actively changing over a record and playing through full sides is enough of a gimmick to make a headline in a local review. We have/had a bar like this in Dallas (Off the Record) that used to have someone flipping records and they had a few bins of new and used vinyl for sale. Since covid it looks like they have fully converted into a traditional bar with bottle service and all. From what I can tell, no vinyl to be found. Just an old name that doesn't mean anything now.
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Edit: found a "throwback"
These are all very valuable points. Some of them I’ve considered and others I haven’t. So thank you!
I was thinking more of a combination of the intimate listening bars in Tokyo meets Spiritland in the UK. So a space that is one thing for some people and a different thing for others. I was thinking of having specific days/times for active listening sessions, bring your own record, and guest DJ spots etc. And using the hifi part of the business as a loss leader to be propped up by the bar/food service. I own a % of two coffee shops in AZ so I’ve used that business experience to kind of inform how I’d need to set up one side of the business to support the passion side. Plus, I don’t plan on taking on any investors or incurring business debt so the entire venture (live or die) will be based on the runway I give it plus the lessons I’ve learned with other startups. It’s basically my passion/retirement project. I’m using my corporate salary to support personal $ needs for the first 3-4 years of the biz to ensure it’s lucrative enough for me to actually leave the corporate world.
Your points about the visual is an exquisite one. That’s what caught me the first time I walked into one of the Japanese listening bars. I may have to add more $ to the budget. LOL
Joe Mac
Well-Known Member
One thing that used to happen here, and was successful before the pandemic, was that a couple used to rent a room in a nice pub in town and went into partnership with a high end hifi store in town. They used to get the lend of an over €100k system, would source a really good pressing of a classic album and would arrange nice wine and nibbles and talkers around the album. I think they used to charge €20 a ticket and regularly sold it out.
SnowmaNick
Well-Known Member
Volti Rival - ~ $10k/pr depending on options/finish
Technics SU-G700M2 $2,900
Technics SL-1200 GR2 (x2) $4,200/pr
Luxman E-250 phono (has dual inputs) $2,400
Eversolo DMP-A6 $900
Audiolab 6000 CDT $600
That’s $21k, leaving $9k for carts and whatever PA stuff to tie in the live part (JBL/Crown would be something to look at)
Also, look at used and you can negotiate prices, I just went with MSRP. I didn’t bother adding tax as it varies.
The Volti’s are very high sensitivity, so the 70WPC from the Technics is plenty, and they can fill a decent sized space pretty well. Plus, you can get them in a custom finish/paint to stand out. The dual turntables can be used for keeping a constant lineup of tunes going, just flip a switch on the Luxman to switch between tables. Also dual tables in case one goes down you aren’t stuck with digital only. I put the Audiolab transport in if you want to play CD’s, and the Eversolo is a good streaming DAC.
I love tubes, but if you’re looking at playing for hours on end every day of the week, solid state is your friend. The Technic’s has a cool retro-futuristic vibe and VU meters, and the Eversolo has the touchscreen which can also display faux-VU or artist/title or other graphics. So the system still has a visual impact for customers. But nothing too expensive that you’d have to hire a doorman just to look at it.
SnowmaNick
Well-Known Member
Also, set the equipment up in a “flashy” way, with good lighting and plenty of space. Most regular people listen with their eyes. Hence why I also didn’t go with super-fi names. Magico, Doshi, MSB etc is kind of wasted in this scenario.