Gotta warp, these members can help. [Vinyl Flat]

The Denmarkian Wonder said:
I put the thermometer in the edge of the fold like in the instructions.

So you pre-heat yours on High and then set it to Medium when you put the Vinyl Flat in?
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I preheat on high, once the record is cleaned and in the flat, I put it in the pouch while the pouch is on high. The flat itself is cold so it's going to lower the temp. in the pouch. I keep preheating on high for 15 min. unless there's something I'm super worried about like plain clear vinyl and then I do 10. Then I switch to medium to do the long bake.
 
The Denmarkian Wonder said:
Is the temp in the Groovy Pouch supposed to go up and down? I tested mine to see which setting it should be on and in Med it peaked it 126.5 and high it was a little different. I used a thermometer we have and it peaked at 146 but when i inserted thermometer Vinyl Flat included it peaked at 135.5. Is it normal?

Also, do you start at 2 hours and go from there, depending on the results, or start a little lower? Same time for black as well as colored vinyl?
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From my experience, I wouldn't start at 2 hours, start at an hour and go up by 15 minute increments if it needs to cook longer. Keep in mind you want to adjust the time it cooks, not the temp. I pre-heat mine at the Med setting for about 30-40 minutes to make sure it's at max temp. That's about 135-140ish measuring in the middle of the pouch folded shut, so not at the seam, but the middle when folded. The longest I've had to cook anything so far has been 1 1/2, most have been fine at 1 15min. Also, be sure to let the VF cool completely before removing the album.........take it out while its still warm and your warp will most likely come back to a certain degree.
 
AnthonyI said:
From my experience, I wouldn't start at 2 hours, start at an hour and go up by 15 minute increments if it needs to cook longer. Keep in mind you want to adjust the time it cooks, not the temp. I pre-heat mine at the Med setting for about 30-40 minutes to make sure it's at max temp. That's about 135-140ish measuring in the middle of the pouch folded shut, so not at the seam, but the middle when folded. The longest I've had to cook anything so far has been 1 1/2, most have been fine at 1 15min. Also, be sure to let the VF cool completely before removing the album.........take it out while its still warm and your warp will most likely come back to a certain degree.
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I think i'm gonna test the temp. again and let it run a little longer to see if mine needs to be Medium or High to hit 130-150.
 
AnthonyI said:
From my experience, I wouldn't start at 2 hours, start at an hour and go up by 15 minute increments if it needs to cook longer. Keep in mind you want to adjust the time it cooks, not the temp. I pre-heat mine at the Med setting for about 30-40 minutes to make sure it's at max temp. That's about 135-140ish measuring in the middle of the pouch folded shut, so not at the seam, but the middle when folded. The longest I've had to cook anything so far has been 1 1/2, most have been fine at 1 15min. Also, be sure to let the VF cool completely before removing the album.........take it out while its still warm and your warp will most likely come back to a certain degree.
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Do you start with an hour for colored/clear records as well?
 
AnthonyI said:
Yep, that's been the starting point for everything. I can't stress the cooling process enough though, don't take anything out of the flat until it's back to room temperature.
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I Just check to make sure the wall timer turned it off and then i leave it for 2-3 hours to cool off while i do other stuff.

And here's the totally handy, weighs about the same as a Vinyl Flat, power converter I had to get 😒

*Blu-Ray for scale*
IMG_2881.jpeg
 
Some great stuff in this thread! I've been using a Vinyl Flat for almost 2 yrs, for the most part it works pretty well. I use it with the Groovy Pouch and a timer I got from Amazon.

I've posted findings on Reddit before, here's a recap as well as some updates:

  • As could be expected, the success rate of flattening records is dependent on many variables.
    • Dish warps have a better chance of correction than edge warps
    • The larger/wider area that the warp covers, the better chance it has of flattening
    • Smaller warps are very tough to fix (think of a 1 to 2 inch edge warp), and even if you get it flat there tends to be permanent damage in the grooves (ie. when it flattens, the grooves are warped but it's side-to-side warpage instead of up-down warpage. You can see it once the tonearm drops)
    • For lack of better term, 'Inner warps' have been impossible for me to fix. These are warps where the edges are fine, but there is a warp/bump on a section of the inner grooves. No idea how this happens, maybe someone put a bowling ball on top of half of the record. Ex. I had a copy of Duke Ellington - Indigos that has about an oval shaped inner warp about 3 inches wide. No matter how many times I put it in the Vinyl Flat it made no improvement. I even heated it on high just to see if I could get the warp to change at all, and it didn't -- it just messed up the rest of the record as expected.
    • The required temperature for heating really depends on each individual record. A medium setting for 1.5 hours might be necessary for one record, but can totally ruin another record. (To elaborate, I had a copy of the Rolling Stones - Emotional Rescue that had a warp on half of the record. I ran it with my usual starting duration of 1hr 15min on medium, and it barely touched the warp. I then ran it again for 1hr 30min, and this time when I took it out I found the vinyl had that 'melted' look)
Here's an example of a more dramatic fix with before and after gifs.
  • This was a totally warped copy of Talk Talk - The Party's Over, not even playable. It took two flattening sessions but I got it to the point where it was almost back to normal.
 
Apparently, I have no idea how to flatten records. I just checked most of the records I've had in the Vinyl Flat so far and they have bounced back to some degree. They're not as bad as before but they all have that "floating" a millimeter or two over the platter. I usually cook for an hour and fifteen minutes on Medium and let it cool for 3 hours before taking it out of the pouch.

Guess I can start all over again *sigh*
 
The Denmarkian Wonder said:
Apparently, I have no idea how to flatten records. I just checked most of the records I've had in the Vinyl Flat so far and they have bounced back to some degree. They're not as bad as before but they all have that "floating" a millimeter or two over the platter. I usually cook for an hour and fifteen minutes on Medium and let it cool for 3 hours before taking it out of the pouch.

Guess I can start all over again *sigh*
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What is the actual temp the pouch is at when you're putting in the album?
 
AnthonyI said:
Ok, something is definitely wrong then. The seam, where it folds over, should be the hottest spot in the bag.
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With the pouch?

I just heated up the pouch and in the seam/fold, with the thermometer Vinyl Flat included, it was 129.9 when i turned it on and then it dropped to 126.5 and bounced around 126.5 and 127. I then took a thermometer from the kitchen and it ended up topping at 131.2 and have since been going back and forth between 128.85 and 130.1. This is on Medium setting.
When i move the tip of the kitchen thermometer from the seam/fold towards the middle, the temp goes up to 141.8.
 
The Denmarkian Wonder said:
With the pouch?

I just heated up the pouch and in the seam/fold, with the thermometer Vinyl Flat included, it was 129.9 when i turned it on and then it dropped to 126.5 and bounced around 126.5 and 127. I then took a thermometer from the kitchen and it ended up topping at 131.2 and have since been going back and forth between 128.85 and 130.1. This is on Medium setting.
When i move the tip of the kitchen thermometer from the seam/fold towards the middle, the temp goes up to 141.8.
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Yes the pouch, sorry. That's so odd, my temps are always hotter at the seam, which is why they recommend putting edge warps towards the seam. Part of me thinks the pouch heat isn't staying consistent for the time you have it in the pouch, maybe try turning on the pouch, letting it warm up for about 30 40 minutes at medium and take your temps at the end, middle and seam. I would take the thermometer out of the pouch completely and let it sit a second or two before putting it in the next position.

If you're letting the album cool down to room temperature in the plates, the problem has to be that the vinyl isn't heating up quite enough to get the warp all the way out, it might be softening the album, but not all the way through, so once you have your temps hammered down you might have to let the album bake a little longer.
 
AnthonyI said:
Yes the pouch, sorry. That's so odd, my temps are always hotter at the seam, which is why they recommend putting edge warps towards the seam. Part of me thinks the pouch heat isn't staying consistent for the time you have it in the pouch, maybe try turning on the pouch, letting it warm up for about 30 40 minutes at medium and take your temps at the end, middle and seam. I would take the thermometer out of the pouch completely and let it sit a second or two before putting it in the next position.

If you're letting the album cool down to room temperature in the plates, the problem has to be that the vinyl isn't heating up quite enough to get the warp all the way out, it might be softening the album, but not all the way through, so once you have your temps hammered down you might have to let the album bake a little longer.
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Wrote Vinyl Flat an email last night and this is their reply:

"Hey, Anders - Actually, your pouch is operating just about perfectly. Yes, the heating element is not precise across its surface but the VF metal plates conduct that heat pretty evenly. I would try a slightly longer heating cycle (but don't over do it!). Also note that some records (not a large percentage) can exhibit warp memory, exactly as you described - that has happened to me a few times - I'm not sure why that happens but it is a condition that definitely exists."

So either the Groovy Pouch is fine or they just don't want to send a replacement to denmark lol
 
The Denmarkian Wonder said:
Wrote Vinyl Flat an email last night and this is their reply:

"Hey, Anders - Actually, your pouch is operating just about perfectly. Yes, the heating element is not precise across its surface but the VF metal plates conduct that heat pretty evenly. I would try a slightly longer heating cycle (but don't over do it!). Also note that some records (not a large percentage) can exhibit warp memory, exactly as you described - that has happened to me a few times - I'm not sure why that happens but it is a condition that definitely exists."

So either the Groovy Pouch is fine or they just don't want to send a replacement to denmark lol
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I would go with the longer bake times and see what happens, I wouldn't go more than 15-20 minute increments. Meaning, if you did an hour and 15, bump that up 15-20 minutes
 
AnthonyI said:
I would go with the longer bake times and see what happens, I wouldn't go more than 15-20 minute increments. Meaning, if you did an hour and 15, bump that up 15-20 minutes
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I was thinking the same :)

giphy.gif
 
I have Had my vinyl flat for a few months and just wanted to give some bullet points on my experiences so as to help others. This is all anecdotal I haven’t kept written notes or done anything empirically. New records seem to be the easiest to flatten, regardless of the shape or severity of the warp. If you have a warped record that plays with surface noise directly related to the warp such as “swoosh” sounds this will in my experience not go away when flat. I have ruined a few records even on medium heat for the groovy pouch, I believe this has been caused by over tightening the wing but on the vinyl flat, I don’t actually make it snug anymore and since doing this I have not had a record come out with visible damage after flattening. The last thing is that records that have a “kink” type warp are very difficult to flatten. I find that records tend to warp three distinct ways although not all warps fall into one of these categories. Bowl shaped, edge warp, and then kink where one side is warped one direction and the opposite side is warped the opposite direction. I also spin the vinyl flat 180 degrees every half hour to help evenly heat the entirety of the record as best as possible, if you use the pouch I assume you have realized that the fold side heats up more then the Velcro side due to the way the element is placed in the pouch.
 
Dylanfan253 said:
I have Had my vinyl flat for a few months and just wanted to give some bullet points on my experiences so as to help others. This is all anecdotal I haven’t kept written notes or done anything empirically. New records seem to be the easiest to flatten, regardless of the shape or severity of the warp. If you have a warped record that plays with surface noise directly related to the warp such as “swoosh” sounds this will in my experience not go away when flat. I have ruined a few records even on medium heat for the groovy pouch, I believe this has been caused by over tightening the wing but on the vinyl flat, I don’t actually make it snug anymore and since doing this I have not had a record come out with visible damage after flattening. The last thing is that records that have a “kink” type warp are very difficult to flatten. I find that records tend to warp three distinct ways although not all warps fall into one of these categories. Bowl shaped, edge warp, and then kink where one side is warped one direction and the opposite side is warped the opposite direction. I also spin the vinyl flat 180 degrees every half hour to help evenly heat the entirety of the record as best as possible, if you use the pouch I assume you have realized that the fold side heats up more then the Velcro side due to the way the element is placed in the pouch.
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Thanks, that helps when I try this soon. I bought the vinyl flat but really would like to get a vinyl cleaning machine (vcm) or do something to clean these albums first before trying to flatten them. I noticed the thermometer that comes with the vinyl flat is not quite as good (responsive) as the cooking thermometer I have from Thermapen, so I want to do some testing a bit first before trying to flatten. I would be a bit more bold but am a bit worried about ruining some records. I may go to but some el-cheapo records which are warped just to do some testing first, which is generally recommended...
 
adrock said:
Thanks, that helps when I try this soon. I bought the vinyl flat but really would like to get a vinyl cleaning machine (vcm) or do something to clean these albums first before trying to flatten them. I noticed the thermometer that comes with the vinyl flat is not quite as good (responsive) as the cooking thermometer I have from Thermapen, so I want to do some testing a bit first before trying to flatten. I would be a bit more bold but am a bit worried about ruining some records. I may go to but some el-cheapo records which are warped just to do some testing first, which is generally recommended...
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Definitely clean the albums before pressing, just remember any crap on the album before hand will be pretty much embedded into the vinyl, and I would agree with you on picking up some $1 bin records to practice on ;)

Good Luck :)
 
Again like my previous post all my data is anecdotal, definitely clean the records thoroughly first, not to go on a tangent but I would clean and then play and clean again. Even with a long slow spin in my cavitation bath and then rinsing many records take many plays and cleanings before I no longer end up with contaminants on the stylus. It’s obviously not ideal but if you’re worried about making contaminants in a record permanent after flattening then I would be ultra conservative on what you believe “clean” is. Generally I’ve not had problems getting all records clean but anything that was pressed before the eighties I would say 10% fall into the category of needing many cleanings. Also I’m sure you are correct regarding the thermometer, I no longer use a thermometer but did in the beginning to get an understanding of what setting on the pouch will produce what temp range and how this is effected the longer it is on. For the sake of removing an unnecessary variable I would suggest like many here to hear the pouch up to your desired temp before putting in the vinyl flat. If you want to turn it on high to get it up to temperature and then change the setting then this will help eliminate any issues that may stem from that. I generally turn it on high for twenty to thirty minutes then set to medium insert vinyl flat, rotate 180 degrees every 30 minutes, turn off the pouch after between 2 and 2.5 hours and then leave everything until the next day around the same time. With this methodology I have not caused any additional damage to a record, I would say that after 2.5 hours about 50% of records require another go for another 2 to 2.5 hours and again I do not tighten the wing nut down I simply spin it on until it stops on it’s own with no additional tightening. Also someone else may be able to give an opinion on which of the two 12” felt inserts options they use and How the results differ with each I however always use the “full” inserts which look identical to a platter mat I believe the user guide suggests using the others that don’t cover the label for bowl shaped warps specifically.
 
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