Grado Cartridges and Stylus - Questions and Advice.

Now that you mention it, I do recall being mildly confused when I installed the Platinum2. It slipped my mind. :)
I figured something out today- if you are installing a Grado on a Technics or any table with a SME type headshell, the weird “zigzag” cartridge pins make perfect sense. The wires connect straight across- top left wire to the top left cartridge pin, etc.

When installing an A/T in a Technics headshell, the wires cross like an X because the cartridge pins are reversed.
 
Well, I’m back to the old grind in a couple of days, and I’ve got a confession to make. I’ve been cheating on my Grados. Yep, they’ve been sitting next to the Beast, totally ignored.

The reasons for this are two fold: first, the stylus on my Gold3 is getting long in the tooth. Second, I’ve been waiting for a couple of factory Technics headshells to arrive. I’ve already got the upgraded headshell wires on hand.

In their stead, I’ve been using my IPT RigB 500- think A/T 540ML in a treaded aluminum housing. No cursed nuts! Yay! It’s a completely different presentation. Bass is tighter. Highs are extended. Vocals are noticeably different. Listening to my MoFi “Dark Side of the Moon” the spoken parts near the end of Side 2- Linda McCartney speaking “he was cruising for a bruising”- out in front of the mix with the Grado. With the A/T, much more recessed- her voice is even with the instruments. Which is correct? I don’t know- I wasn’t there. The RigB kicks serious ass. But if you know and love the Grado sound, the magic, it’s not there.

So, the G has taught me that spending big bucks on a cartridge isn’t necessary to get phenomenal sound. But I’d be lying if I said I haven’t looked at other options, including the four figure ones.

Looking at Grado, I have to say as I give it some thought (actually quite a lot of thought) I’m disappointed. The value proposition is off kilter. In some instances, it’s not existent. I know- the Grado faithful want to spit on me. Stick with me for a bit. There’s an idea I have at the end. No skipping ahead.

Let’s look at the Prestige series first. Black and Green go together. 3 piece cantilevers and bonded elliptical styli. Blue, Red, Silver and Gold all have 4 piece cantilevers with bonded elliptical styli. For the price of the Gold ($175) you can get the same bonded elliptical stylus with- from what I’ve read straight from Grado- a “different generator”- the 8MZ. I’m thinking they mean the little moving iron tip at the opposite end of the cantilever from the stylus. To me, the 8MZ sounds the best. I’m not convinced there’s any difference at all between the others in their respective groups.

If you want a more advanced stylus profile or even nude mounting, you have to go to a Woody. But even the first two models don’t have a nude mounted stylus: you have to go to the Sonata3 priced at $600 for a nude elliptical. And you have to exchange cartridges when the stylus is worn. A/T sells the 540ML with a replaceable MicroRidge/MicroLine stylus for $249. The RigB was $320 shipped from the UK.

One more thing- Grado shows frequency response extension to 55-60kHz with the Prestige series. First there’s no tolerance given, so the spec is completely meaningless. A/T is guilty too, but their spec isn’t over the top imaginary. Kudos, by the way to Ortofon who actually publish tolerance: that + or - however many dB after the frequency response. Why do I say “imaginary”? Because it’s impossible to get to 50 kHz with an elliptical stylus. That’s why the Shibata stylus was invented- to detect the ultra high carrier frequency necessary for Quadraphonic LP playback. Elliptical styli are incapable.

Let’s look at the Woodies a bit further. Want a Boron cantilever? Sure you do- it’s lighter and stiffer than aluminum. You can get that with a nude elliptical stylus for $3500. Yes $3500. In fact, to get (quoting 4ourEars website) a “specially designed diamond stylus” will set you back $6000. What’s so special about it? No one but Grado knows.

Knowing all this. I still love my Grados and recommend them often. But I’d like to up my game a bit. Spending $3500 isn’t in the cards. If I won the lottery, it still isn’t going to happen. I’d be too concerned about how much each side of a record costs to listen to- I wouldn’t be able to enjoy myself.

So, meet Joseph Long. He’s the answer to a question that I’ve wondered for a while.


Here’s the plan: I’ll send Mr. Long my Gold3 with a worn stylus (and $475). In return he sends me back the cartridge with a rebuilt stylus with a new Boron cantilever and a MicroRidge stylus- something you can’t get from Grado for $3500. I’ll get longer stylus life and fingers crossed, better highs and better tracking. And the stylus is still user replaceable. Mr. Long told me that other customers have had awesome results upgrading Grados. He even provides photos along with separation and crosstalk readings of the finished product so you know exactly what you have.

I’ll follow up in a few weeks when it comes back.
 
Finally got the Grado shipped out this morning for the upgrade. I’m figuring I’ll get it back in a few weeks- maybe a month. He is a craftsman and I’m a new customer so I told him “no rush.” I don’t want to be “that guy” aka HiFi Karen.

Besides I’m not exactly slumming with the IPT RigB500. 😊
 
I’ve heard back from Joseph Long aka The Groove Tickler, and I’ve learned a few things:

First, stylus examination:

The Gold3 stylus is 1/2 to 2/3 worn. 2/3 to me is time.

58B31143-9C77-4DB4-8DD7-91757CB1ABB5.jpeg

Here’s the 8MZ. Nearly new condition but the stylus is very slightly rotated.

C47E52EA-6956-450C-8B17-DB445AC2B025.jpegF72DAA7F-4052-4D18-89AE-33771C40AE47.jpeg

And, as Grado stated, the 8MZ has a smaller generator ring (as witnessed by the output being about 30% less.) This results in lower moving mass and better tracking. This also explains why I prefer slightly higher gain with the 8MZ. Look at the voltage output on the scope:

Gold Stylus

E91DEE50-967D-425F-83DA-2130EF8FFDF1.jpeg

8MZ

9B84207B-90CB-44B9-8EDF-024797A8CA39.jpeg
 
I’ve heard back from Joseph Long aka The Groove Tickler, and I’ve learned a few things:

First, stylus examination:

The Gold3 stylus is 1/2 to 2/3 worn. 2/3 to me is time.

View attachment 147048

Here’s the 8MZ. Nearly new condition but the stylus is very slightly rotated.

View attachment 147049View attachment 147050

And, as Grado stated, the 8MZ has a smaller generator ring (as witnessed by the output being about 30% less.) This results in lower moving mass and better tracking. This also explains why I prefer slightly higher gain with the 8MZ. Look at the voltage output on the scope:

Gold Stylus

View attachment 147051

8MZ

View attachment 147052
Is this why I’ve noticed I have to pump up the volume using my 8mz?
 
I am selling my Technics SL1210GR turntable, it is gently used listening to amazing vinyl. The turntable comes in the original packaging and is fitted with a Grado Gold3 cartridge mounted to the extremely rare Grado head shell that I used, these head shells are not available anywhere, but you get one with this turntable. There is only 1 available, final sale...

Rich Grado's Personal Technics Turntable (used)
 
Next up the 8MZ

Output voltage before 640 mV
Output voltage after 360 mV
Separation 33 dB

I didn’t expect a drop in output from stock. I’m guessing the difference is lack of resonance due to the difference in cantilevers. I expect I’ll be increasing the gain to at least 46 dB- 52 dB may be too hot.

A stock Gold3 measures 35 dB separation. The upgraded Gold3 exceeds this. The 8MZ doesn’t meet spec. The 8MZ is going on my ME+ mono cartridge. 4.5 dB difference in favor of the Gold3 isn’t insignificant. 33 dB is still excellent- an A/T 540ML doesn’t hit 30 dB.

Joseph listened to both, He said both are excellent, with the Gold3 being louder and smoother, the 8MZ quieter and brighter.

E3F8590B-BAF5-4644-B8AE-0CFD7A63F2C9.jpeg73142DBC-B716-45E9-BBCF-0714A2833C22.jpeg0D1DA3A8-0D43-43DB-A06C-EF05638D1185.jpeg
 
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I’ve been looking at this some more while I am waiting for them to arrive.

Looking at the rise time, there appears to be a significant difference. Rise time is how fast the signal jumps from zero to the peak.

The upgraded Gold3 shows 291 microseconds. The upgraded 8MZ shows 163 microseconds- a 43% difference. This would be due to the smaller generator- less moving mass.

The 8MZ has a 33% less output than the Gold3 though- so rise time would be quicker- it takes the 8MZ less time because it’s peak voltage is lower- the Gold3 has farther to “travel” to reach its peak. Taking the output difference into account, the 8MZ has a transient response that’s about 10% faster than the Gold3- all because of lower moving mass. This should make the 8MZ slightly more dynamic and track slightly better.

Stock vs upgraded shows a very telling story. The transient response on the Gold3 improves by 1% with a 15% reduction in output. The 8MZ seems to really take advantage of the lower moving mass of the new cantilever- there’s a 45% improvement in transient response with a 10% reduction in output.

I’ll have to listen to both. Initially I was thinking the Gold3 for stereo and the 8MZ for mono due to the better separation with the Gold3. Now I’m pondering the other way around- better highs, dynamics and tracking with the 8MZ would really benefit stereo recordings and the warmer sounding Gold3 (with reduced highs) won’t matter as much with mono because many mono recordings don’t have much high frequency information anyway.

Of course this could all change once I listen.
 
I received a message from Joseph regarding the 8MZ that I thought I’d pass along:

Just a quick note: the ~33dB reading on the 8MZ is above spec as well, actually well above. I forgot for a moment that the Signature 8MZ and, indeed all Signature cartridges, are spec’d to 25dB. I have seen a few go a little higher and one hit 40dB as I recall, but they most often test right at 25dB and no higher. So 33dB is spectacular.
 
I also asked about the voltage drop with the new cantilever and stylus. He also mentioned that the Gold3 is rated at 5 mV output and the 8MZ is 3.5 mV so that answers the question @marshall had.

Joseph regarding the voltage drop:

I can’t say why the voltage drops with boron, sapphire and ruby cantilevers. I have only noticed in specs that it does. It also drops when you go from conical to elliptical and from elliptical to line contact. So changing the cantilever to boron and the diamond to line contact is going to cause a drop. Previously, too, the better cantilevers and diamonds also end up on typically smaller generators, so I thought that could be it. But as you can see, there’s more to it because the voltage drops with the same generator.

There are as many explanations as you can think of but in the end, the cantilever must be somehow moving less in the groove somehow. I guess it’s just more controlled, perhaps less resonant.
 
I received my package from Joseph Long/Groove Tickler today.

Right now it’s stereo- Gold3 plus 8MZ. I’m beyond thrilled. Think Grado magic plus resolution, articulation and detail. Grado on steroids.

His work was quick (even including the fact that he went on vacation). Top notch and very fairly priced, especially considering the results.

This sounds better than any cartridge I’ve heard under $1500.
 
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