Hip Hop

Interested to hear how all of you feel about Jermaine Dupri's comments regarding the female rap game being full of nothing but stripper and sex rap.
 
Jonathan Y said:
Interested to hear how all of you feel about Jermaine Dupri's comments regarding the female rap game being full of nothing but stripper and sex rap.
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He is at best completely out of touch with current female rappers, but it honestly sounds like he is a bit sexist. There are plenty, if not more examples of male rappers doing the same exact thing he is shitting on female rappers for. I mean how many male rappers refer to their dick or fucking in songs? Most of them.

In a hip-hop scene featuring female artists like Little Simz, Tierra Whack, Rapsody, and Ivy Sole, I don't know how you could make those kind of statements.
 
Jonathan Y said:
Interested to hear how all of you feel about Jermaine Dupri's comments regarding the female rap game being full of nothing but stripper and sex rap.
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BradwiseBeats said:
He is at best completely out of touch with current female rappers, but it honestly sounds like he is a bit sexist. There are plenty, if not more examples of male rappers doing the same exact thing he is shitting on female rappers for. I mean how many male rappers refer to their dick or fucking in songs? Most of them.

In a hip-hop scene featuring female artists like Little Simz, Tierra Whack, Rapsody, and Ivy Sole, I don't know how you could make those kind of statements.
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I don't think he's entirely wrong. Look at the majority of best selling female rappers. That's not taking away anything from the Little Simz, Rapsodys or Ivy Soles of the world.. it's just a matter of what mainstream rap fans seem to want. That doesn't mean there aren't phenomenal female rappers out there right now (and I don't think he's saying that) but if you want to succeed, that sure seems to be the way to do it. (Yes, I know of Lauryn Hill so please don't @ me about that)
 
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BradwiseBeats said:
He is at best completely out of touch with current female rappers, but it honestly sounds like he is a bit sexist. There are plenty, if not more examples of male rappers doing the same exact thing he is shitting on female rappers for. I mean how many male rappers refer to their dick or fucking in songs? Most of them.

In a hip-hop scene featuring female artists like Little Simz, Tierra Whack, Rapsody, and Ivy Sole, I don't know how you could make those kind of statements.
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Yea it real rubbed me the wrong way...the lost goes on and on to. Lizzo had to move venues from Jannus live in St. Pete to The Sun Dome on the USF campus due to high demand and a 10 minute sell out. Not to mention Noname has been killing it, along with Rapsody like you said. Someone said he had a great point on Facebook and we got into a long discussion so I came here to decompress lol
 
Clint Howard said:
I don't think he's entirely wrong. Look at the majority of best selling female rappers. That's not taking away anything from the Little Simz, Rapsodys or Ivy Soles of the world.. it's just a matter of what mainstream rap fans seem to want. That doesn't mean there aren't phenomenal female rappers out there right now (and I don't think he's saying that) but if you want to succeed, that sure seems to be the way to do it. (Yes, I know of Lauryn Hill so please don't @ me about that)
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This was the person's point. Mine was that Jermaine, my friend, and you must be referring to radio. Streams, merch, physical sales, tour sales, critical acclaim from mainstream media outlets, social media presence, etc say otherwise.

They tell me they're almost as popular but majors are scared to push the button because they arent taking the traditional sexual.route
 
Jonathan Y said:
This was the person's point. Mine was that Jermaine, my friend, and you must be referring to radio. Streams, merch, physical sales, tour sales, critical acclaim from mainstream media outlets, social media presence, etc say otherwise.
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I'm sorry but you just don't understand the economics of the industry if you think any of the people you mentioned are making anywhere near the money that Cardi B or other mainstream artists are making. They're not even in the same stratosphere.
 
Clint Howard said:
I don't think he's entirely wrong. Look at the majority of best selling female rappers. That's not taking away anything from the Little Simz, Rapsodys or Ivy Soles of the world.. it's just a matter of what mainstream rap fans seem to want. That doesn't mean there aren't phenomenal female rappers out there right now (and I don't think he's saying that) but if you want to succeed, that sure seems to be the way to do it. (Yes, I know of Lauryn Hill so please don't @ me about that)
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It's not the female rappers fault that certain music sells better. Who is he to judge certain ones for making the music that their fans clearly want to hear? He's putting the blame on female rappers for the content that is the most popular in the mainstream. Seems a little ridiculous.
 
Clint Howard said:
I'm sorry but you just don't understand the economics of the industry if you think any of the people you mentioned are making anywhere near the money that Cardi B or other mainstream artists are making. They're not even in the same stratosphere.
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They aren't I guess it is just a shame that a man like Jermaine Dupri, a person of color that has the ability to go against the mainstream agenda, chooses to ignore the waves being made in areas that he should be already looking at. Its 2019 and hes not looking at various outlets that I mentioned to find new talent? Youre telling me Jermaine Dupri is really being that naive when artists like Kendrick, and other male versions of the "creative lyrical route" are making forbes yearly?
 
Why cant he be brave enough to push these women against the grain? Hopefully the backlash he got, which led to him anniuncing the female cypher show, will help change the discuss
 
Clint Howard said:
I'm sorry but you just don't understand the economics of the industry if you think any of the people you mentioned are making anywhere near the money that Cardi B or other mainstream artists are making. They're not even in the same stratosphere.
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Dupri wasn't making a statement on the economics of the industry. He was blaming female rappers for what the audience wants to hear.
 
BradwiseBeats said:
It's not the female rappers fault that certain music sells better. Who is he to judge certain ones for making the music that their fans clearly want to hear? He's putting the blame on female rappers for the content that is the most popular in the mainstream. Seems a little ridiculous.
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I never said it was and never was it implied that he did in the original comment. All I said was I agreed with him that that seems to be what you have to do for mainstream success in America. I don't know anything about him judging their music or their fans.. did he say something about them?

Jonathan Y said:
They aren't I guess it is just a shame that a man like Jermaine Dupri, a person of color that has the ability to go against the mainstream agenda, chooses to ignore the waves being made in areas that he should be already looking at. Its 2019 and hes not looking at various outlets that I mentioned to find new talent? Youre telling me Jermaine Dupri is really being that naive when artists like Kendrick, and other male versions of the "creative lyrical route" are making forbes yearly?
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Does he have that ability anymore? I mean, I haven't really paid close attention but has Dupri been relevant at all in the last 10++ years? If anything, this seems to be him trying to make himself relevant nowadays. And I'm not sure what your last statement means?
 
Jonathan Y said:
Why cant he be brave enough to push these women against the grain? Hopefully the backlash he got, which led to him anniuncing the female cypher show, will help change the discuss
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Da Brat wasn't a stripper or sexed out rapper so he at least tried to do his part.

BradwiseBeats said:
Dupri wasn't making a statement on the economics of the industry. He was blaming female rappers for what the audience wants to hear.
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I guess? I don't know what his statement was other than a vague mention of it in this here thread.
 
Clint Howard said:
I never said it was and never was it implied that he did in the original comment. All I said was I agreed with him that that seems to be what you have to do for mainstream success in America. I don't know anything about him judging their music or their fans.. did he say something about them?



Does he have that ability anymore? I mean, I haven't really paid close attention but has Dupri been relevant at all in the last 10++ years? If anything, this seems to be him trying to make himself relevant nowadays. And I'm not sure what your last statement means?
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Clint Howard said:
Da Brat wasn't a stripper or sexed out rapper so he at least tried to do his part.



I guess? I don't know what his statement was other than a vague mention of it in this here thread.
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Im saying that I think Jermaine Dupri notices people like Kendrick making the Forbes list every year and realize that lyrical rappers can make money. I was giving an example of the male version of these women he seems to not know exist. So he must know, given his history in the business, that there must be a lane. If you give them a chance, just like him working with Da Brat, who he said changed the game in the quote as well, and seeing Lauryn Hill as you mentioned. He said all he hears is women rapping about money and sex. I find it crazy that someone who knows how to seek out new talent is basically telling me all he's doing is hearing radio rappers. He obviously cant be in touch because despite the money earnings, these women trend when they drop all over. Theyre on the front pages of streaming platforms. They do media runs and sell out shows. I dont get how he can be that naive
 
Jonathan Y said:
Im saying that I think Jermaine Dupri notices people like Kendrick making the Forbes list every year and realize that lyrical rappers can make money. I was giving an example of the male version of these women he seems to not know exist. So he must know, given his history in the business, that there must be a lane. If you give them a chance, just like him working with Da Brat, who he said changed the game in the quote as well, and seeing Lauryn Hill as you mentioned. He said all he hears is women rapping about money and sex. I find it crazy that someone who knows how to seek out new talent is basically telling me all he's doing is hearing radio rappers. He obviously cant be in touch because despite the money earnings, these women trend when they drop all over. Theyre on the front pages of streaming platforms. They do media runs and sell out shows. I dont get how he can be that naive
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Lyrical male rappers can make money. I mean the first 'star' of hip-hop was Rakim.. a lyrical male rapper. It's a proven entity at this point. Now show me how many star lyrical female rappers there are? One.. Lauryn Hill. So yes, it's easy to see why he thinks that. And he probably does know but the sad reality is that a lot of them wouldn't become stars given the chance because of what it takes for mainstream success. I'm honestly shocked that any of you think you know better than seasoned veterans who have made billions of dollars in this business.

Should it change? Yes. But don't expect the labels to do anything about it until it's profitable for them to do it. And it's just not yet at this point. (and I mean mega-profitable.. Drake makes in one month off radio airplay what most of the artists you mentioned will make in their entire career to put this in perspective)
 
Clint Howard said:
Lyrical male rappers can make money. I mean the first 'star' of hip-hop was Rakim.. a lyrical male rapper. It's a proven entity at this point. Now show me how many star lyrical female rappers there are? One.. Lauryn Hill. So yes, it's easy to see why he thinks that. And he probably does know but the sad reality is that a lot of them wouldn't become stars given the chance because of what it takes for mainstream success. I'm honestly shocked that any of you think you know better than seasoned veterans who have made billions of dollars in this business.

Should it change? Yes. But don't expect the labels to do anything about it until it's profitable for them to do it. And it's just not yet at this point. (and I mean mega-profitable.. Drake makes in one month off radio airplay what most of the artists you mentioned will make in their entire career to put this in perspective)
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I think Missy also was a huge success and didnt come out selling sex. I don't know the business as well obviously, but I think this day and age, it's crazy how out of touch he is. All of the information is at our fingertips and he knows where to look. I think in 2019 with women's empowerment being a huge topic that the time is now for him to be completely wrong if we're being honest. However, when people who think like JD are in power, there isnt much to change. The fans just have to continue support until they wake up. The old trends are not the law anymore and that I do know. Women can be popular lyricists and just as creative as they wanna be. It's old thinking by men holding them back if we're being honest
 
Jonathan Y said:
I think Missy also was a huge success and didnt come out selling sex. I don't know the business as well obviously, but I think this day and age, it's crazy how out of touch he is. All of the information is at our fingertips and he knows where to look. I think in 2019 with women's empowerment being a huge topic that the time is now for him to be completely wrong if we're being honest. However, when people who think like JD are in power, there isnt much to change. The fans just have to continue support until they wake up. The old trends are not the law anymore and that I do know. Women can be popular lyricists and just as creative as they wanna be. It's old thinking by men holding them back if we're being honest
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You're right.. I should have included Missy but I always considered her more of a singer than a rapper.. she also had the 'luck' of being partners with one of the hottest producers in the game. That always helps.

Yes, all of this information is at our finger tips but Drake is still the best selling rapper in the world. Billy Eillish is the biggest non-rap thing I've heard about in ages. Are either of them particularly gifted or talented? I don't think so but even if you did, you can't argue the fact that there are way more talented people than both of them in their respective fields.. and yet, they're the biggest thing.

And again, I'm not sure JD is in power anymore.. I think this is him trying to make himself relevant.. but your point still stands for the rest of the people who do have power. So you want to see that happen.. start a grassroots movement that builds to millions of fans and followers and then they'll start paying attention. Make some serious money, they will have to pay attention.

But again, I think you're putting way too much blame on the executives and not enough on the fans. There is a reason Marvel movies dominate at the box office and there's a reason Drake does on the charts. People want lowest common denominator bullshit. You want smart shit to be on the mainstream you gotta pull some Thanos type shit and snap all the dumbasses out the world.
 
Clint Howard said:
You're right.. I should have included Missy but I always considered her more of a singer than a rapper.. she also had the 'luck' of being partners with one of the hottest producers in the game. That always helps.

Yes, all of this information is at our finger tips but Drake is still the best selling rapper in the world. Billy Eillish is the biggest non-rap thing I've heard about in ages. Are either of them particularly gifted or talented? I don't think so but even if you did, you can't argue the fact that there are way more talented people than both of them in their respective fields.. and yet, they're the biggest thing.

And again, I'm not sure JD is in power anymore.. I think this is him trying to make himself relevant.. but your point still stands for the rest of the people who do have power. So you want to see that happen.. start a grassroots movement that builds to millions of fans and followers and then they'll start paying attention. Make some serious money, they will have to pay attention.

But again, I think you're putting way too much blame on the executives and not enough on the fans. There is a reason Marvel movies dominate at the box office and there's a reason Drake does on the charts. People want lowest common denominator bullshit. You want smart shit to be on the mainstream you gotta pull some Thanos type shit and snap all the dumbasses out the world.
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Lol I agree with almost all of this except the fans are doing it!! The reason these late night shows are booking all these women is because they have great fan support! Like i said they stream well. They make the major playlists. Companies like VMP choose them as ROTM. XXL freshmen lists. Festivals use decent size font when they list the names. I mean there are plenty of examples of success and numbers on platforms to show fan support. It really is just the labels taking them from tier 3 or 4 to tier 5. Getting them on radio and putting the albums in retail stores if thats where u look cuz ur name is Jermaine Dupri. Regardless despite me biting, this isnt a mainstream or a money talk. This was an all i hear is blah blah blah talk so that is why I say JD was wrong
 
Jonathan Y said:
Lol I agree with almost all of this except the fans are doing it!! The reason these late night shows are booking all these women is because they have great fan support! Like i said they stream well. They make the major playlists. Companies like VMP choose them as ROTM. XXL freshmen lists. Festivals use decent size font when they list the names. I mean there are plenty of examples of success and numbers on platforms to show fan support. It really is just the labels taking them from tier 3 or 4 to tier 5. Getting them on radio and putting the albums in retail stores if thats where u look cuz ur name is Jermaine Dupri. Regardless despite me biting, this isnt a mainstream or a money talk. This was an all i hear is blah blah blah talk so that is why I say JD was wrong
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Streaming doesn't make anyone any money though. Kendrick fans buy his album. Same with Drake. Same with Cardi B. Unfortunately for the majority of 'indie' artists, their fans are happy to stream. And when they sell units.. Noname sold .. what, 2000 copies of her absolutely critically acclaimed album over the course of a couple months. Westside Gunn can sell 1500 records in 6 minutes at $60 a pop. And he ain't even close to seeing people who are beneath Drake's level. Like.. there is worlds of difference between selling like Cardi B and selling like Noname. And money is vastly different too. And ultimately this is the music business. So until that changes, stream away and appear at festivals (not as a headliner) while the Cardi B's and the Drakes of the world sell millions of copies of their album, stream and sell out arena tours.

And the fans are not blameless here.. I don't know why you think they are. I mean, I was naive twenty years ago thinking that if only people could hear the other music being made out there, these artists would be stars. And guess what? Most of the people I think should be stars are still nobodies to the majority of the world because they just don't care about that stuff. They don't. And once you figure that out, you'll stop paying attention to wtf people like JD have to say about anything.
 
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