Hot Take/ Musical Confession Thread!
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TenderLovingKiller®
Well-Known Member
I am amused by the backlash on here. N&G via Folklore was a safe space for atypical Swifties.
The overexposure doesn’t bother me. It probably helps that no one in my life really cares about Taylor Swift.
The overexposure doesn’t bother me. It probably helps that no one in my life really cares about Taylor Swift.
This will be a bit of a thinkpiece and either far too hot takey or far too thinky for this thread but here it goes. boychik's post got me to think on this a bit as I do think the point was half-baked but there is something there.
One of Taylor Swift's most interesting qualities as a musician, and this goes back to the very start, is that she never makes music that feels - for the lack of a better word - inaccessible or that makes her feel that way. For as long as I can remember listening to music, our biggest musicians who filled arenas in the pop realm eventually got to the point where the music they made felt like songs meant to relate to people who don't exist. Often this was intended - the appeal of a Britney Spears is that she is an inaccessible, beautiful, popstar. Katy Perry leads off with I Kissed a Girl and is doing songs that just feel like they happened in places that you'll never see. Even someone like Ed Sheeran who is as down to Earth as you get paints scenes that feel like complete fantasies you see in movies but that are a step too far to happen in real life.
Taylor doesn't do music like that. She is very, very careful and deliberate about making the more fantastic songs feel more like "story" pieces - like even songs like Blank Space or Anti-Hero establish her as a character, not necessarily "Taylor" - the Taylor you see in every other song. Some are just straight, pure real-life song writing and simple scenario crafting (a ton of the S/T and Fearless and Speak Now were like this - pointed pieces that did happen to her or things most of us have kind of imagined or can easily image. Some of the more radical takes and songs are still couched and grounded to at least a feeling we all get. Take Bad Blood - none of us will ever go to verbal war with an international pop star which is what this is - but the feeling of a perceived friend betraying you and wanting to fight them and take it out verbally? For sure.
Just as importantly, at least until very recently - her image wasn't really ever that either. This feels truly effing insane to say about an artist who put out Reputation and the theatrics surrounding that, but there was always an intention to have fans fully understand what was coming before it happened. Reputation makes sense in the wake of the Kardashian/West "betrayal" of it all. The glacially slow transition from country to pop. The jolt to Lover to Folklore/Evermore all made sense with what was happening to and what Taylor Swift was actually doing. And what it did is what pop stars have failed to do for eons that genre stars actually can do - maintain fans who feel like they're supporting Taylor Swift (the human being). In many ways, Taylor Swift (the person) seems great and is the person behind Taylor Swift (the performer) who does exactly what we all want to do when "things" happen to us. Evermore/Folklore coming out as we were all stuck indoors felt...genuine, if nothing else, like how many of us felt. The TVs make sense as the fight over her labor, work, sweat, and tears against obvious villains. It's what we dream of - the work we put in being taken back from those who steal it. So even if she dates luminaries, flies around on private jets, and is the biggest star in the world, it's very rare that she herself ever lets us see that or feel like she wants us to see it .She may and probably does, but it's not her portrayal.
Which kind of gets back to three posts in this thread
I think the difference is that, at least until the Midnights cycle - it was all moderated to some extent. Taylor was and is a MASSIVE musician and tabloid fodder, but you could kind of easily avoid the narrative otherwise. She was building up a massive base of true-blue fans over a generation but you know, it was its own universe like most musicians are. The sheer popularity of the Eras tour then pushed that outwards - the album cycle became a "tour" cycle and a "film" cycle and a "political" cycle and a "sports" cycle. So if you're a film person or a news person or a sports person you can no longer safely not have an opinion on Taylor and talk about her - and given that Taylor is great and polarizing, it just makes it so much more difficult to avoid the discourse, and more people don't want to miss out on an opportunity to be part of it.
This is probably a lot of nonsense to be honest, and to be clear, I still really do like most of her music and her as a person, I just think it makes some sense that we're seeing backlash. For so many years, to steal her phrase, she was the girl in the bleachers. Then she became the cheerleader. Then she became the star of the game. Then she became all of it, and the all of it is pushing other people out of the discussion and bringing in people who aren't ones we want to work around or with. And it's not really her fault but I think it's become just so...omnipresent that it's increasingly unplesant. Pizza's great but I don't want pizza every day.
I feel kind of bad honestly, as I think Taylor Swift is genuinely a great person and a legitimate role model, so we go.
One of Taylor Swift's most interesting qualities as a musician, and this goes back to the very start, is that she never makes music that feels - for the lack of a better word - inaccessible or that makes her feel that way. For as long as I can remember listening to music, our biggest musicians who filled arenas in the pop realm eventually got to the point where the music they made felt like songs meant to relate to people who don't exist. Often this was intended - the appeal of a Britney Spears is that she is an inaccessible, beautiful, popstar. Katy Perry leads off with I Kissed a Girl and is doing songs that just feel like they happened in places that you'll never see. Even someone like Ed Sheeran who is as down to Earth as you get paints scenes that feel like complete fantasies you see in movies but that are a step too far to happen in real life.
Taylor doesn't do music like that. She is very, very careful and deliberate about making the more fantastic songs feel more like "story" pieces - like even songs like Blank Space or Anti-Hero establish her as a character, not necessarily "Taylor" - the Taylor you see in every other song. Some are just straight, pure real-life song writing and simple scenario crafting (a ton of the S/T and Fearless and Speak Now were like this - pointed pieces that did happen to her or things most of us have kind of imagined or can easily image. Some of the more radical takes and songs are still couched and grounded to at least a feeling we all get. Take Bad Blood - none of us will ever go to verbal war with an international pop star which is what this is - but the feeling of a perceived friend betraying you and wanting to fight them and take it out verbally? For sure.
Just as importantly, at least until very recently - her image wasn't really ever that either. This feels truly effing insane to say about an artist who put out Reputation and the theatrics surrounding that, but there was always an intention to have fans fully understand what was coming before it happened. Reputation makes sense in the wake of the Kardashian/West "betrayal" of it all. The glacially slow transition from country to pop. The jolt to Lover to Folklore/Evermore all made sense with what was happening to and what Taylor Swift was actually doing. And what it did is what pop stars have failed to do for eons that genre stars actually can do - maintain fans who feel like they're supporting Taylor Swift (the human being). In many ways, Taylor Swift (the person) seems great and is the person behind Taylor Swift (the performer) who does exactly what we all want to do when "things" happen to us. Evermore/Folklore coming out as we were all stuck indoors felt...genuine, if nothing else, like how many of us felt. The TVs make sense as the fight over her labor, work, sweat, and tears against obvious villains. It's what we dream of - the work we put in being taken back from those who steal it. So even if she dates luminaries, flies around on private jets, and is the biggest star in the world, it's very rare that she herself ever lets us see that or feel like she wants us to see it .She may and probably does, but it's not her portrayal.
Which kind of gets back to three posts in this thread
I think the difference is that, at least until the Midnights cycle - it was all moderated to some extent. Taylor was and is a MASSIVE musician and tabloid fodder, but you could kind of easily avoid the narrative otherwise. She was building up a massive base of true-blue fans over a generation but you know, it was its own universe like most musicians are. The sheer popularity of the Eras tour then pushed that outwards - the album cycle became a "tour" cycle and a "film" cycle and a "political" cycle and a "sports" cycle. So if you're a film person or a news person or a sports person you can no longer safely not have an opinion on Taylor and talk about her - and given that Taylor is great and polarizing, it just makes it so much more difficult to avoid the discourse, and more people don't want to miss out on an opportunity to be part of it.
This is probably a lot of nonsense to be honest, and to be clear, I still really do like most of her music and her as a person, I just think it makes some sense that we're seeing backlash. For so many years, to steal her phrase, she was the girl in the bleachers. Then she became the cheerleader. Then she became the star of the game. Then she became all of it, and the all of it is pushing other people out of the discussion and bringing in people who aren't ones we want to work around or with. And it's not really her fault but I think it's become just so...omnipresent that it's increasingly unplesant. Pizza's great but I don't want pizza every day.
I feel kind of bad honestly, as I think Taylor Swift is genuinely a great person and a legitimate role model, so we go.
Nee Lewman
बैस्टर्ड
The hip hop thread would like a word with you.
Nee Lewman
बैस्टर्ड
I mean is there really a backlash, we’re all pretty much in agreement that Midnights is not her best work and that she should maybe take a vacation.
Joe Mac
Well-Known Member
Are we? You are? Is everyone else?
Nee Lewman
बैस्टर्ड
Is it your favorite album by her? I don’t think there is one person here who has said it is her best work. There are degrees of it’s number 2 to 20 or whatever…
Joe Mac
Well-Known Member
No but that’s not the implication of your post. It’s not red or 1989 but equally it’s a really good solid fun pop album that reviewed well and probably sits just below them and above lover and reputation in her pop canon.
Nee Lewman
बैस्टर्ड
Which gets to my point is there really a backlash here?
Viking Dan
Well-Known Member
Joe Mac
Well-Known Member
No but equally I don’t think it’s an outlier to say that Midnights wasn’t a disastrous album and if an artist feels they are in a rich creative vein why should they stop? Shouldn’t they mine it and enjoy while they can? A creative block always happens soon or later.
This idea of fatigue of an artist you don’t like it’s vaguely comical and ridiculous to me, why do you care? I mean what would these people have been like in the 60s when there was a new album every 6 months.
Nee Lewman
बैस्टर्ड
I’m confused as to how I don’t like Midnights equates to I don’t like Taylor Swift. I bought the damn thing. You know what I don’t have in my collection? Any FJM, because I actually don’t like him.
This is why Swifties get jokingly called a cult, that’s an insufferable attitude… the exact same kind of shit you get annoyed at when people try to shove Pink Floyd down your throat.
Not for nothing, she should probably take a vacation, enjoy sometime away from it all. It can’t be great to be this constantly in the spotlight.
Fleetwood-Matt
Well-Known Member
Damn my man didn’t need to catch a stray like that lol
Joe Mac
Well-Known Member
The first paragraph was to you and the idea someone should take a holiday after a well received album you don’t like.
The second is more about how frankly ridiculous the whole conversation around this today has been. It’s so easy to ignore stuff you don’t like in the 21st century, there is so much content. It’s not like people are stuck with broadcast tv and the radio anymore!
Hemotep
Well-Known Member
I forgot what thread I was in for a minute, but I think the biggest thing Swift has going for her is that she manages to make music for teen girls and their dads at the same time. It's the consumer double whammy.
Also, I think I tune out a lot of pop culture because I don't see her discussed that much or pop up other than in passing ads anywhere except here and the football headlines.
Also, I think I tune out a lot of pop culture because I don't see her discussed that much or pop up other than in passing ads anywhere except here and the football headlines.
Fleetwood-Matt
Well-Known Member
I disagree with you here, if anything I think it’s harder to avoid stuff now a days since everything is so interconnected. I personally avoid her the best I can she is unavoidable. Any conversation her fans can connect back to her. Hell look at the past football season where she was the center of attention, or even politics she is intertwined with. I wish I could blacklist celebrities so I would never have to hear about them again but being on the internet in any capacity you will see countless mentions of her
Fleetwood-Matt
Well-Known Member
Literally my dad and two sisters have gotten really close by connecting over swift
Hemotep
Well-Known Member
For the last couple rsds the line at my local was full of dads and daughters. It was nice to see them get excited over the same thing.
Joe Mac
Well-Known Member
Man I remember the 90s. If you hated a song you were stuck leaving the tv and radio off until it ran its course.
Maybe I’m just good at tuning out things I don’t want to pay attention to…
TenderLovingKiller®
Well-Known Member
I think of that scene in The Bear where Richie is driving home after figuring shit out at the front of the house and he celebrates by jamming out to his Daughters Taylor Swift album.