Hot Take/ Musical Confession Thread!

BjorgenFjorgen said:
Uproxxx is perhaps also the least user-friendly, advertisement-heavy website I've ever seen, which doesn't help.
Click to expand...
Their site is sucks! I have to click on this…
IMG_2705.jpeg
…So I can scroll through the whole post without it crashing.
BjorgenFjorgen said:
I just find the "All of ____'s songs, ranked" to be very cynical and shallow.
Click to expand...
I get it but his “rankings” typically are used as a framing device. On many occasions he has provided the caveat that his rankings are meaningless. It’s just an excuse for him to write 50,000 words about a band that he loves.
 
I get that Beyoncé is a larger than life music personality but I can think of multiple female artists (regardless of genre) who are far more talented and make better music. I mean she doesn't even write her own material half the time. I understand that music is subjective but I simply don't comprehend the adoration and why she's hailed by critics and fans alike. Sorry I don't get the hype 🤷
 
Hollywood said:
I get that Beyoncé is a larger than life music personality but I can think of multiple female artists (regardless of genre) who are far more talented and make better music. I mean she doesn't even write her own material half the time. I understand that music is subjective but I simply don't comprehend the adoration and why she's hailed by critics and fans alike. Sorry I don't get the hype 🤷
Click to expand...
Me neither...
 
Hemotep said:
Me neither...
Click to expand...
Hollywood said:
I get that Beyoncé is a larger than life music personality but I can think of multiple female artists (regardless of genre) who are far more talented and make better music. I mean she doesn't even write her own material half the time. I understand that music is subjective but I simply don't comprehend the adoration and why she's hailed by critics and fans alike. Sorry I don't get the hype 🤷
Click to expand...
Completely agree. I can't name a Beyonce song.. well, there's one that's called something like single ladies? And, another that's put a ring on it? Something like that - maybe they're the same song? I honestly don't know and don't care.
 
Hollywood said:
I get that Beyoncé is a larger than life music personality but I can think of multiple female artists (regardless of genre) who are far more talented and make better music. I mean she doesn't even write her own material half the time. I understand that music is subjective but I simply don't comprehend the adoration and why she's hailed by critics and fans alike. Sorry I don't get the hype 🤷
Click to expand...
Hemotep said:
Me neither...
Click to expand...
She’s no Post Malone (KIDDING!)

Seriously though, We are music fanatics. So sometimes it’s hard to understand what the mainstream is obsessed with and why. My best approximation is to think of her Music like the Model-T Ford. She takes the best things that others originated and perfected and packages them in a way everyone can easily consume. Is as much about what here music signifies as it is about the music itself..

Taylor Swift for better or worse is in the same boat.
 
TenderLovingKiller® said:
She’s no Post Malone (KIDDING!)

Seriously though, We are music fanatics. So sometimes it’s hard to understand what the mainstream is obsessed with and why. My best approximation is to think of her Music like the Model-T Ford. She takes the best things that others originated and perfected and packages them in a way everyone can easily consume. Is as much about what here music signifies as it is about the music itself..

Taylor Swift for better or worse is in the same boat.
Click to expand...
This seems like an oversimplification. I think there is certainly pop music that, for lack of a better term, is soft pap (I'm vaguely paraphrasing Louisa May Alcott here).

I do not think Beyonce (or Taylor Swift for that matter) fit there. I think they both tap into emotions that a swath of demographics (culture, age, etc) can appreciate. Saying that we (and I include myself) as music fanatics have some sort of keener insight into the depths of music is kind of insulting (it reminds of when podcast comics call everyone else "civilians"; like our brains are wired differently).

Perhaps you did not mean it this way - or you did, and it is certainly your prerogative - but the bolded part of your quotation makes it seem like you think she is watering down and regurgitating others work. I will not argue that - especially Act I - does not rely on past architecture but I think it works as a homage and rebirth (heck re-nascence, right) but not derivation. Just my opinion.

I wonder how much of a dive you have done into her work. And you may have and arrived at the same conclusion. Fair. But I also respectfully disagree. I'm not saying you or anyone else has to like her (there's plenty I do not listen to myself), but I think a simpler answer is it's not my style or tastes.

I also find it odd to say "I don't get the hype" (not quoting you here, but others above) about an artist who put out their first album in 1998 (first Destiny's Child album). Just as much as it would be odd for me to say I don't get the hype for, say, Pearl Jam who put out their first album seven years prior to DC. An artist with that much longevity is no longer coasting on hype - albeit I gladly accept a particular release can be argued to be hype (e.g. the branding of Act II as country surely adds hype).

But to use my first example of Pearl Jam, I'd rather listen to an artist (Beyonce) this far into her career putting out fresh albums with more artistic runway in front of her than the umpteenth boring album put out by PJ (not my tastes) in the last two decades (or, place in a multitude of other bands that are not packing the artistic punch they did years prior....looking at you RHCP).

Also, while I say this and I do enjoy her music, I am not wrapped up in fandom for her (or anyone, for that matter). In fact, right after listening to Act II again this morning I followed it with a nice chaser of doom metal a la Dream Unending (one of my albums of '22); so I'm certainly not dying on a pop music hill.

Just some of the comments here come off as....(mildly) dismissive or (more aggressively) elitist. Then again, this is the hot takes thread so I think we're all hitting it on the nose.

{small edits for clarification}
 
I think arguments about authenticity and how much credit she should get for the work are all valid conversations to have. I’ve been on both sides of this argument, I remember arguing Morning Phase > Beyoncé during the 2015 Grammys and the amount of people she worked with on that album was a big reason why. But personally I’ve come to point where I can have that conversation but also the thing that matters the most is just “is the album/music good”. At the end of the day that’s all that really matters atleast to me. I thought Morning Phase was good and Beyoncé wasn’t. Now I think RENAISSANCE is good and the amount of people credited doesn’t change that.

Beyoncé may work with 100+ people to make her albums but if that comes out to be a 10/10 album (which I believe Lemonade and RENAISSANCE are both pretty close to 10/10) than that’s what ultimately matters.

You can work with 100+ people and still make a shitty album (just look at DJ Khaled), knowing who to work with and getting the best out of them and making your aesthetic fit with their work are all hard work and deserves credit as much as being a soloist does.
 
Sparkle Baby Diaper Lava said:
This seems like an oversimplification.
Click to expand...
It definitely was. I don’t consider either to be “Pap”. I think it’s well crafted and very listenable pop music with singles Tailor-made for top 40 radio or TV commercials. I just think that for people that are music obsessives, like most of us; it can be hard to appreciate mainstream pop for what it is.
Sparkle Baby Diaper Lava said:
But to use my first example of Pearl Jam, I'd rather listen to an artist (Beyonce) this far into career putting out fresh albums with more artistic runway in front of her than the umpteenth boring album but out by PJ in the last two decades (or, punch in a multitude of other bands that are not packing the artistic punch they did years prior....looking at you RHCP).
Click to expand...
I agree to an extent but I probably won’t be listening to any new Pearl Jam or RHCP and haven’t really in over 20 years. I would much rather listen to the singles off a this Beyoncé album than the singles off of PJ. I gave Cowboy Carter a cursory listen which is more than I will do for PJ. The difference has more to do with the pop culture cache the Beyoncé album will carry over the next year. It will likely be everywhere and I would like to be apart of that conversation. Outside of PJ stans, their new album will come and go and is more of an excuse for them to tour than to be culturally significant.
Sparkle Baby Diaper Lava said:
Just some of the comments here come off as....(mildly) dismissive or (more aggressively) elitist. Then again, this is the hot takes thread so I think we're all hitting it on the nose.
Click to expand...
I hope I wasn’t giving off that vibe. I appreciate Beyoncé and Taylor and everything they signify in our society. I hope they both continue to occupy the rarified air of pop culture super stardom that few have reached. I understand that they are not making music for me in particular and I am completely fine with that.
 
TenderLovingKiller® said:
It definitely was. I don’t consider either to be “Pap”. I think it’s well crafted and very listenable pop music with singles Tailor-made for top 40 radio or TV commercials. I just think that for people that are music obsessives, like most of us; it can be hard to appreciate mainstream pop for what it is.

I agree to an extent but I probably won’t be listening to any new Pearl Jam or RHCP and haven’t really in over 20 years. I would much rather listen to the singles off a this Beyoncé album than the singles off of PJ. I gave Cowboy Carter a cursory listen which is more than I will do for PJ. The difference has more to do with the pop culture cache the Beyoncé album will carry over the next year. It will likely be everywhere and I would like to be apart of that conversation. Outside of PJ stans, their new album will come and go and is more of an excuse for them to tour than to be culturally significant.

I hope I wasn’t giving off that vibe. I appreciate Beyoncé and Taylor and everything they signify in our society. I hope they both continue to occupy the rarified air of pop culture super stardom that few have reached. I understand that they are not making music for me in particular and I am completely fine with that.
Click to expand...
This is an interesting side to think of - that is the whole "conversation" and culture cache. I guess 'cause I never really take these things in this way I am a bit non-chalant to its effects. However, duly noted point. And this brings in @Fleetwood-Matt since i know you are big into the Grammys (which is part of the "conversation", I'd imagine; perhaps with waning impact)....
Fleetwood-Matt said:
I think arguments about authenticity and how much credit she should get for the work are all valid conversations to have. I’ve been on both sides of this argument, I remember arguing Morning Phase > Beyoncé during the 2015 Grammys and the amount of people she worked with on that album was a big reason why. But personally I’ve come to point where I can have that conversation but also the thing that matters the most is just “is the album/music good”. At the end of the day that’s all that really matters atleast to me. I thought Morning Phase was good and Beyoncé wasn’t. Now I think RENAISSANCE is good and the amount of people credited doesn’t change that.

Beyoncé may work with 100+ people to make her albums but if that comes out to be a 10/10 album (which I believe Lemonade and RENAISSANCE are both pretty close to 10/10) than that’s what ultimately matters.

You can work with 100+ people and still make a shitty album (just look at DJ Khaled), knowing who to work with and getting the best out of them and making your aesthetic fit with their work are all hard work and deserves credit as much as being a soloist does.
Click to expand...
I've seen the argument about multitude of songwriters, producers, etc. with other artists as well. My feelings have changed over the years. If you asked teenage me who was very much into bands and instruments, I'd say fuck that overproduced shit. I really would've flamed on it.

But maybe because as I've gotten older and I appreciate collaboration in my own career, I do not see an issue with it. UNLESS there is some sort of dishonesty about it. But if a band has 4 members and they collaborate okay. So what if they add one - just ONE - producer who is known to add their own direction....is that acceptable? I think for most it would be. But then we arrive at a sort of Sorites Paradox because by extrapolation no number should be too large (I am getting a bit ridiculous here, but I do agree that the outcome is the most important for me).

Btw, I think the DJ Khaled 100+ people, still shitty album is right on the money.

- - -

And @TenderLovingKiller® no worries about anything. Our interactions have been enough elsewhere that I take this all in good spirit and good faith (and I can only imagine everyone else in this fine community does). I do believe that the Hot Takes thread should exist for the gloves to come off a bit (respectfully) and for rebuttals to be made in kind.
 
Hollywood said:
To clarify, I meant the hype around her 🆕 album Cowboy 🤠 Carter which imo opinion is not a country album.
Click to expand...
Ah, got you. 100% agree and it does add hype. I don't know if the fact that it was a country album came from her camp (I imagine it did) or just the initial singles gave that impression and her camp did not correct the narrative. But yup DEFINITELY not a country album. However, if she wins any CMA's or Grammys for country it will be awesome. Not because the album will deserve it, but we all need a good circus from time to time.
 
Sparkle Baby Diaper Lava said:
Saying that we (and I include myself) as music fanatics have some sort of keener insight into the depths of music is kind of insulting (it reminds of when podcast comics call everyone else "civilians"; like our brains are wired differently).
Click to expand...
No insult was intended. We all have our things. I enjoy music a lot. That is why I collect records and spend a lot of time on here talking about it with all of you folks. I have tried to discuss music in the same breadth and scope as I would on here in the real world and outside a very small subset of friends and family, I usually watch as their eyes slowly glaze over. I could talk to my sister-in-law about Beyoncé or T-Swift and she would perk up for a bit but she doesn’t care about the background beyond trying to glean and decipher tidbits of lyrical content for autobiographical insight. What’s important to her is that it’s catchy and she can bop to it. Her curiosity usually begins and ends with whatever Spotify recommends and that is completely cool. she cares about different things than I do when it comes to music and that isn’t to say either me or her is right or wrong. It’s just different and that is completely fine.
 
Hollywood said:
To clarify, I meant the hype around her 🆕 album Cowboy 🤠 Carter which imo opinion is not a country album.
Click to expand...
The interesting part to me is how much of the culture discourse has been about whether or not it’s a country album and that the Country Music gatekeepers Nashville and Country Radio purposely exclude POC but now that the full albums been released that whole debate seems moot (in relation to this particular album, it’s still a very real issue that should be discussed by and large). I would say this album is more a Beyoncé album than a Country Music album. Certainly some tracks were influenced by country music and wouldn’t feel out of place next to lots of what’s played on contemporary country radio today which is little more than pop music with a fiddle, banjo or steel guitar run.
 
TenderLovingKiller® said:
The interesting part to me is how much of the culture discourse has been about whether or not it’s a country album and that the Country Music gatekeepers Nashville and Country Radio purposely exclude POC but now that the full albums been released that whole debate seems moot (in relation to this particular album, it’s still a very real issue that should be discussed by and large). I would say this album is more a Beyoncé album than a Country Music album. Certainly some tracks were influenced by country music and wouldn’t feel out of place next to lots of what’s played on contemporary country radio today which is little more than pop music with a fiddle, banjo or steel guitar run.
Click to expand...
Let's chalk it up to it's a country pop album at best!
 
I'm not really a hot takes kind of person, on the hating side (but I enjoy plenty of stuff that others love to hate on, so a hot take for me is that I love Aqua 🌊), because there is very little I "hate." Even stuff I don't like rarely rises to the level of hating on it. I don't like Steely Dan. I still own an album. I don't like Beyonce. I still own an album.

I understand why they're both popular, but I'm bored by most of what's on their albums. For Beyonce, there's the odd single that I enjoy for what it is. I like her video projects because they add something for me beyond the music (same with that Halsey film, awesome but the album didn't do it for me).

Unlike others in here, and even as someone who's loved the last couple Taylor Swift albums, I hope they all lose every Grammy. The last twenty years of the same five people is dumb no matter what they're putting out now.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top