It Could Get A Bit Messi In Here - The Football Thread.

mdmost said:
Kane's problem is he's getting up there in age and is very injury prone for a guy with what might be in the 100M+ transfer fee range. The only two clubs I could see doing that are City and Chelsea. I could see Chelsea maybe doing it but I don't think City will pull the trigger on that. I know they need an Aguero replacement but I don't think Pep and Kane would do well together. I also don't think Real Madrid and Barca could or will get involved when Mbappe and Haaland are up for a possible move this offseason. We know Man U and Liverpool would both be out. I just don't see a team willing to splash the cash for Kane. But I also didn't think Barcelona would make all of Liverpool's dreams come true with the Coutinho deal, so what do I know.
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Acording to the sources close to the club United are 100% in. City have upped their spend to £150m and are prepared to offer a big chunk extra wages to see them off. Chelsea is absolutely out of the question, Levy is going to play hardball and might not let him go full stop but he is never selling to them!
 
Joe Mac said:
Acording to the sources close to the club United are 100% in. City have upped their spend to £150m and are prepared to offer a big chunk extra wages to see them off. Chelsea is absolutely out of the question, Levy is going to play hardball and might not let him go full stop but he is never selling to them!
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Both Kane and Sancho?
 
mdmost said:
Kane's problem is he's getting up there in age and is very injury prone for a guy with what might be in the 100M+ transfer fee range. The only two clubs I could see doing that are City and Chelsea. I could see Chelsea maybe doing it but I don't think City will pull the trigger on that. I know they need an Aguero replacement but I don't think Pep and Kane would do well together. I also don't think Real Madrid and Barca could or will get involved when Mbappe and Haaland are up for a possible move this offseason. We know Man U and Liverpool would both be out. I just don't see a team willing to splash the cash for Kane. But I also didn't think Barcelona would make all of Liverpool's dreams come true with the Coutinho deal, so what do I know.
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Haaland apparently wants 1m/week which is INSANE. That would be the only drawback. Kane said in his interview he'd love to play with KDB. I think he has his sights set on City.
Joe Mac said:
Acording to the sources close to the club United are 100% in. City have upped their spend to £150m and are prepared to offer a big chunk extra wages to see them off. Chelsea is absolutely out of the question, Levy is going to play hardball and might not let him go but he is never selling to them!
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Yup. He'll rot on the bench for 3 years before Levy sells to Chelsea. IIRC Levy sold Modric to Real Madrid for less than Chelsea offered because he refused to strengthen them.

Also I don't see why United need him having just re-signed Cavani. I think United go for him if Kane sticks around at Spurs for one more season. It's City or bust IMO.
Joe Mac said:
The anger will soften and whether he stays, or goes, you’ll end up remembering the good times. I remember ranting like this about Ronaldo in 2009, now I just remember that great team built around him!
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You're probably right. I do think it will help long term to not be so reliant on a single player.
 
wokeupnew said:
Haaland apparently wants 1m/week which is INSANE. That would be the only drawback. Kane said in his interview he'd love to play with KDB. I think he has his sights set on City.

Yup. He'll rot on the bench for 3 years before Levy sells to Chelsea. IIRC Levy sold Modric to Real Madrid for less than Chelsea offered because he refused to strengthen them.

Also I don't see why United need him having just re-signed Cavani. I think United go for him if Kane sticks around at Spurs for one more season. It's City or bust IMO.

You're probably right. I do think it will help long term to be so reliant on a single player.
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I don’t think Cavani plays into it to be honest. You can’t play him every week. Even if he is remarkable shape for 35, he’s still 35. United will sign another forward this year, either Sancho and groom Greenwood as the 9 or Kane and he stays right for now. The thinking I’d subscribe to is that it’s a lot to ask a 20 year old to be United’s number 1 striker and Haaland/Mbappe probably isn’t doable for an English club. If there’s even the remotest possibility of it they have to try. If it doesn’t work out keep the Sancho iron in the fire.

It’s a double edged sword and having a player that good is guaranteed points. The failure has been not to surround him with a better team by strengthening when you were on top, not on over relying on him.
 
mdmost said:
What are you talking about Joe Mac? Liverpool is totes getting Mbappe. French papers tell me so. They would never lie. Yeah, he's totally going to Spain.
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Yeah rumours are Madrid are circling around Mbappe this year and Haaland next year when the release clause comes in. The other rumour I’ve heard is that United were willing to try to gazump the Spanish with Haaland and pay a much bigger fee this year to land him whilst the Spanish clubs were strapped but the wage demands of £500k a week after tax and the extraordinary signing on fee means that he’s off the list.
 
Joe Mac said:
It’s a double edged sword and having a player that good is guaranteed points. The failure has been not to surround him with a better team by strengthening when you were on top, not on over relying on him.
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I do think a lot of this is on Kane himself. Because he insists on playing almost every single game. Spurs have always had awful backup striker options. We finally got a decent one in Vinicius but he almost never played. He's done what was asked of him and gotten a decent goal haul, but in very few games and against lesser competition. Kane wants to play every game and the full 90 minutes. He'd save himself from injuries if he was subbed half the time or just gave himself a break every 5th or 6th game. Pep loves to rotate and/or Greenwood and Cavani will want minutes. Kane will have to limit his play time. I just think that will be a difficult situation for him because he hasn't been told not to play before.
 
wokeupnew said:
I do think a lot of this is on Kane himself. Because he insists on playing almost every single game. Spurs have always had awful backup striker options. We finally got a decent one in Vinicius but he almost never played. He's done what was asked of him and gotten a decent goal haul, but in very few games and against lesser competition. Kane wants to play every game and the full 90 minutes. He'd save himself from injuries if he was subbed half the time or just gave himself a break every 5th or 6th game. Pep loves to rotate and/or Greenwood and Cavani will want minutes. Kane will have to limit his play time. I just think that will be a difficult situation for him because he hasn't been told not to play before.
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You rotate when you can but I think that’s harsh on Kane if I’m honest. He’s so far ahead of the alternatives that the drop off is too great. Pep didn’t rotate Messi and no one rotated Ronaldo, Lewandowski is always in Munich’s team and Kane is to Spurs at that level and with the right team is potentially at that level for anyone.
 
Thackeraye said:
Interesting how we forget things: weeks ago we were raging at the ESL, now we are talking about £100m+ transfers. Both are linked.
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Don't forget the irony of Liverpool's ownership wanting to jettison the Champions League for the guaranteed Super League money while now pinning all their hopes on Liverpool to clinch Champions League on Sunday to have the extra money needed to compete in the marketplace with all the other Super League wannabe teams.
 
Joe Mac said:
You rotate when you can but I think that’s harsh on Kane if I’m honest. He’s so far ahead of the alternatives that the drop off is too great. Pep didn’t rotate Messi and no one rotated Ronaldo, Lewandowski is always in Munich’s team and Kane is to Spurs at that level and with the right team is potentially at that level for anyone.
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The times that Spurs have been up a couple of goals and you can let him rest 20-25 minutes he won't come off. Those help prevent injuries.
 
mdmost said:
Don't forget the irony of Liverpool's ownership wanting to jettison the Champions League for the guaranteed Super League money while now pinning all their hopes on Liverpool to clinch Champions League on Sunday to have the extra money needed to compete in the marketplace with all the other Super League wannabe teams.
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I mean that’s the same as them all really. City and Chelsea were the two shocks in the super league equation because they didn’t need the money. United probably don’t if they’re correctly run but Glazers going to be Glazers. The madness of any Premier League club being in it is that for the European clubs this was a clear shot at the success of the Premier League, they’d all happily see it destroyed!
 
wokeupnew said:
The times that Spurs have been up a couple of goals and you can let him rest 20-25 minutes he won't come off. Those help prevent injuries.
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Great players have that attitude and single minded approach. Without it they don’t reach that level. Most of his injuries have been turned ankles? Not muscular strains?
 
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Joe Mac said:
Great players have that attitude and single minded approach. Without it they don’t reach that level. Most of his injuries have been turned ankles? Not muscular strains?
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He had a hamstring injury last year before Corona, probably could have been avoided with proper rest and rotation. Also in the loss to United back in early 2019 he was injured at the very, very end of the match which could have been avoided if he was subbed. That coincided with the better team play in the league and first part of the CL knockouts.

All I'm saying is with his injury history, and if he wants to play for another 7-8 years like he's said, he's going to have to take it easier. I don't know if he knows that or if he'll refuse to take it easier at a new club. He wants to bang in 50 goals a season (I don't think he can do that), so with that drive & determination he's not going to want to rest his body and he'll get injured at City/United/wherever again.
 
Joe Mac said:
The anger will soften and whether he stays, or goes, you’ll end up remembering the good times. I remember ranting like this about Ronaldo in 2009, now I just remember that great team built around him!
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Except Man U actually won titles with CR7, so I’m not sure that’s the best comparison...
 
It’s always hard to gauge how non-European squads measure up against European clubs, but before globalization took over I can confidently say there were some real quality teams in Brazil. Palmeiras in 1993-1994 was super strong, but my pick (and incidentally the team I support) are the São Paulo FC squads of 1992-1993. Coached by Telê Santana (Brazil’s manager during the 1982 and 1986 WCs), they won the Libertadores and the Intercontinental Cup two years in a row:

São Paulo FC - Squad 1992/1993

Missing from the linked squad is Leonardo (later of AC Milan fame, currently a PSG executive), who left in 1991 and joined back briefly in mid-1993. Besides him, there were tons of WC winners on and off that team: Zetti, Raí, Müller, Ronaldão, Cafu (twice), Juninho (later of Middlesbrough), and club legend Rogério Ceni (let’s just say that Alisson has to score 100+ goals to catch up with him...). There was also a late-career Toninho Cerezo, who was part of Brazil’s classic (if ill-fated) 1982 WC team; and other quality players like Palhinha and Válber.
 
bettim84 said:
It’s always hard to gauge how non-European squads measure up against European clubs, but before globalization took over I can confidently say there were some real quality teams in Brazil. Palmeiras in 1993-1994 was super strong, but my pick (and incidentally the team I support) are the São Paulo FC squads of 1992-1993. Coached by Telê Santana (Brazil’s manager during the 1982 and 1986 WCs), they won the Libertadores and the Intercontinental Cup two years in a row:

São Paulo FC - Squad 1992/1993

Missing from the linked squad is Leonardo (later of AC Milan fame, currently a PSG executive), who left in 1991 and joined back briefly in mid-1993. Besides him, there were tons of WC winners on and off that team: Zetti, Raí, Müller, Ronaldão, Cafu (twice), Juninho (later of Middlesbrough), and club legend Rogério Ceni (let’s just say that Alisson has to score 100+ goals to catch up with him...). There was also a late-career Toninho Cerezo, who was part of Brazil’s classic (if ill-fated) 1982 WC team; and other quality players like Palhinha and Válber.
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I think that Palmeiras team had one of my all time favourite players in it. Rivaldo. I just loved watching him play. He’s up there with Zidane and pre knee injury Ronaldo as the best of the 90s for me!

Cafu as well. What an engine. He was as fit and covered as much ground in his late 30s as he ever did. He was also a player that seemed better when he was older than when he was younger.

I think there was something wonderful back then in that the game had globalised so the likes of Brazilians and Argentines and Dutch ended up leaving eventually and playing for the bigger European teams but it was mostly at 23/24 after they’d developed and achieved rather than the current trend of 16/17/18.
 
Joe Mac said:
I think that Palmeiras team had one of my all time favourite players in it. Rivaldo. I just loved watching him play. He’s up there with Zidane and pre knee injury Ronaldo as the best of the 90s for me!

Cafu as well. What an engine. He was as fit and covered as much ground in his late 30s as he ever did. He was also a player that seemed better when he was older than when he was younger.

I think there was something wonderful back then in that the game had globalised so the likes of Brazilians and Argentines and Dutch ended up leaving eventually and playing for the bigger European teams but it was mostly at 23/24 after they’d developed and achieved rather than the current trend of 16/17/18.
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Yeah, Rivaldo played for both Palmeiras and Corinthians in the 90s. I actually remember when he first popped up in a small club called Mogi-Mirim. Sadly because he played for São Paulo’s biggest rivals I did not appreciate him during his playing career, which was foolish in retrospect (that dummy to Ronaldo in the 2002 WC final was perfect). He eventually joined São Paulo for a brief spell... in 2011. You can guess how well that went!
 
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