Klipsch Speakers Thread

The Forte requires 1W to get to 99 dB (at one meter away). The L100 produces 90 dB at the same power input and distance. To get 99 dB requires about 8W of power into the JBL.

This is why high sensitivity speakers can sound good at low volumes, because the speakers will displace more air with less input. The Fortes tend to be low distortion at low volume.
 
Angsty said:
The Forte requires 1W to get to 99 dB (at one meter away). The L100 produces 90 dB at the same power input and distance. To get 99 dB requires about 8W of power into the JBL.

This is why high sensitivity speakers can sound good at low volumes, because the speakers will displace more air with less input. The Fortes tend to be low distortion at low volume.
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Yeah I'm wondering whether the JBLs suddenly opening up so much at low volumes is down to the extra power of the Lyngdorf or just the amp itself and the way it operates, irrespective of the power.. Like I'm wondering if I added a power amp to the Arcam if it would have the same result.
 
From HiFi News:

“On the face of it JBL has not resorted to punishingly low impedance to achieve [good sensitivity] – the L100 Classic is honestly specified as 4ohm nominal (no '8 ohms compatible' nonsense) and we measured a minimum impedance of 3.5ohm.

Unfortunately its low frequency impedance phase angles are very high as a result of which the EPDR (equivalent peak dissipation resistance) dips to a low of 1.3ohm at 82Hz.

In other words, this speaker does present a pretty tough (low frequency) amplifier load even for a modern design.”

From that last line, I’d suspect that a higher spec power amp than the Arcam would produce better bass output with the L100. This speaker seems to need a 1 ohm stable, 2 ohm rated amplifier even if the power output need not be very high.
 
Angsty said:
From HiFi News:

“On the face of it JBL has not resorted to punishingly low impedance to achieve [good sensitivity] – the L100 Classic is honestly specified as 4ohm nominal (no '8 ohms compatible' nonsense) and we measured a minimum impedance of 3.5ohm.

Unfortunately its low frequency impedance phase angles are very high as a result of which the EPDR (equivalent peak dissipation resistance) dips to a low of 1.3ohm at 82Hz.

In other words, this speaker does present a pretty tough (low frequency) amplifier load even for a modern design.”

From that last line, I’d suspect that a higher spec power amp than the Arcam would produce better bass output with the L100.
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Hence why the Lyngdorf 3400 is doing so well I guess. I'm debating getting the Lyngdorf 2400 power amp to add to the Arcam, it's the same 400 watts as the 3400.
 
Mather said:
Hence why the Lyngdorf 3400 is doing so well I guess. I'm debating getting the Lyngdorf 2400 power amp to add to the Arcam, it's the same 400 watts as the 3400.
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I added a bit about the type of power delivery the speaker needs. It needs high current versus high power.
 
Joe Mac said:
So they’d like tubes and class a in general then.
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Well… tube amps typically have a high output impedance (e.g. low damping factor) compared to solid state amps. You’d want the output impedance to be at least 20 times lower than the minimum EPDR. I say 20 instead of 10 since at low EPDR, the resistance of the speaker cable itself can be of significance.

So, in this case a max output impedance of 0.065 ohms or a damping factor of about 120. John Siau of Benchmark recommends at least 150. Not many tube amps have an output impedance that low.

The price for a high output impedance is less woofer control and a poorer frequency response. I like iron-fisted driver control, so I also prefer amps with damping factors over 200. Some people prefer the lower and mid frequency “bloom” of a high impedance tube amp.

The Forte has this issue, too. Between 80-150 Hz, the Forte EPDR dips below 2 ohms and may not be a good impedance match for many tube amps, even though its sensitivity is high and it requires little power to produce high volume. I think @HiFi Guy had this issue with his tubed Stingray amp with the Forte.
 
Angsty said:
The price for a high output impedance is less woofer control and a poorer frequency response. I like iron-fisted driver control, so I also prefer amps with damping factors over 200. Some people prefer the lower and mid frequency “bloom” of a high impedance tube amp.
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This makes sense. Bass certainly tightened up when I went to solid-state, but there is a certain lush presence (e.g. euphonic distortion) to the tubes that was very enjoyable for a lot of music.
 
Angsty said:
Well… tube amps typically have a high output impedance (e.g. low damping factor) compared to solid state amps. You’d want the output impedance to be at least 20 times lower than the minimum EPDR. I say 20 instead of 10 since at low EPDR, the resistance of the speaker cable itself can be of significance.

So, in this case a max output impedance of 0.065 ohms or a damping factor of about 120. John Siau of Benchmark recommends at least 150. Not many tube amps have an output impedance that low.

The price for a high output impedance is less woofer control and a poorer frequency response. I like iron-fisted driver control, so I also prefer amps with damping factors over 200. Some people prefer the lower and mid frequency “bloom” of a high impedance tube amp.

The Forte has this issue, too. Between 80-150 Hz, the Forte EPDR dips below 2 ohms and may not be a good impedance match for many tube amps, even though its sensitivity is high and it requires little power to produce high volume. I think @HiFi Guy had this issue with his tubed Stingray amp with the Forte.
Click to expand...
You're smart.

One day I'd like to be smart like this too.

I am not holding out hope.
 
Angsty said:
Well… tube amps typically have a high output impedance (e.g. low damping factor) compared to solid state amps. You’d want the output impedance to be at least 20 times lower than the minimum EPDR. I say 20 instead of 10 since at low EPDR, the resistance of the speaker cable itself can be of significance.

So, in this case a max output impedance of 0.065 ohms or a damping factor of about 120. John Siau of Benchmark recommends at least 150. Not many tube amps have an output impedance that low.

The price for a high output impedance is less woofer control and a poorer frequency response. I like iron-fisted driver control, so I also prefer amps with damping factors over 200. Some people prefer the lower and mid frequency “bloom” of a high impedance tube amp.

The Forte has this issue, too. Between 80-150 Hz, the Forte EPDR dips below 2 ohms and may not be a good impedance match for many tube amps, even though its sensitivity is high and it requires little power to produce high volume. I think @HiFi Guy had this issue with his tubed Stingray amp with the Forte.
Click to expand...
The 3400 has a dampening factor of 266 (8 Ω, @100 Hz). I can't find anything about the max output impedance. But I guess that would explain why I'm getting so much more bass out of them now.

So basically with the Forte IVs the Lyngdorf may give up a bit in the highs with the horns vs tubed but it's going to have rock solid control on the lows which is where the tubes might have issue.
 
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Mather said:
The 3400 has a dampening factor of 266 (8 Ω, @100 Hz). I can't find anything about the max output impedance. But I guess that would explain why I'm getting so much more bass out of them now.

So basically with the Forte IVs the Lyngdorf may give up a bit in the highs with the horns vs tubed but it's going to have rock solid control on the lows which is where the tubes might have issue.
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This is why I went bi-amp to get sound with best of both worlds.
Plus the increased headroom is killer.
 
kvetcha said:
I feel the need to emphasize again that you will be rattling the walls with 10W of output.
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Haha I know it would just be to bi amp and then a second to add to the Arcam upstairs so it has the same heft. I likely won't. But it's a thought since these units are also 60% off show demos.
 
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