Neverending Covid-19 Coronavirus

German weekly Der Spiegel conducted an interview with Anthony Fauci. The points where they try to get him talk negatively about trump which he obviously does not want are a little annoying but it is fairly interesting
 

Do we trust this data or is it politically motivated?

I'm not sure what they're trying to say. Looks like they're trying to mislead with the headline. I mean respiratory failure is not an underlying condition along with COVID19 but a end stage symptom of the disease itself. Same with pneumonia (COVID19 itself can cause pneumonia), respiratory arrest, cardiac arrest, heart failure, anything vascular and kidney failure. All of these can be directly caused by the SARS-CoV-2 infection itself.
 
I'm not sure what they're trying to say. Looks like they're trying to mislead with the headline. I mean respiratory failure is not an underlying condition along with COVID19 but a end stage symptom of the disease itself. Same with pneumonia (COVID19 itself can cause pneumonia), respiratory arrest, cardiac arrest, heart failure, anything vascular and kidney failure. All of these can be directly caused by the SARS-CoV-2 infection itself.

QAnon and the virus is a hoax people are tweeting that this means that only 6% reported to be COVID-19 are actually from COVID-19. It proves they have been right all along that the numbers have been inflated and if you die of something else they list the cause of death as COVID-19.

All the republican people in my family are talking about this and what a shame the virus is and the democrats and main stream media controlling the narrative and creating fear to prevent Trump from being reelected because it's all they got.


Sighs...
 
Florida State to allow tailgating at football games.

All parking lots will open three hours before kickoff this season.

Patrons will be limited to individual tailgates at their own spaces.

All attendees are asked to maintain the six-foot social distancing standard between individuals outside of family/friends as well as between tailgate areas.

All patrons are encouraged to wear facemasks when traveling through parking lots as well as while socializing.

Anyone else also pick up on "Asked" and "Encouraged"? Meaning these guidelines are only suggestions and don't actually have to be followed because they are not mandated.
 

Do we trust this data or is it politically motivated?

Note: Provisional death counts are based on death certificate data received and coded by the National Center for Health Statistics as of August 26, 2020. Death counts are delayed and may differ from other published sources (see Technical Notes).

Coronavirus disease deaths are identified using the ICD–10 code U07.1. Deaths are coded to U07.1 when coronavirus disease 2019 or COVID-19 are reported as a cause that contributed to death on the death certificate. These can include laboratory confirmed cases, as well as cases without laboratory confirmation. If the certifier suspects COVID-19 or determines it was likely (e.g., the circumstances were compelling within a reasonable degree of certainty), they can report COVID-19 as “probable” or “presumed” on the death certificate (5, 6). COVID-19 is listed as the underlying cause on the death certificate in 94% of deaths (see Table 1).

Pneumonia deaths are identified using multiple cause-of-death codes from the 10th Revision of ICD (ICD–10): J12–J18, excluding deaths that involve influenza (J09–J11). Influenza deaths are identified from the ICD–10 codes J09–J11, and include deaths with pneumonia or COVID-19 listed as a contributing cause of death.

Pneumonia and influenza deaths are included to provide context for understanding the completeness of COVID-19 mortality data and related trends. Deaths due to COVID-19 may be misclassified as pneumonia or influenza deaths in the absence of positive test results, and pneumonia or influenza may appear on death certificates as a comorbid condition. Additionally, COVID-19 symptoms can be similar to influenza-like illness, thus deaths may be misclassified as influenza. Thus, increases in pneumonia and influenza deaths may be an indicator of excess COVID-19-related mortality. Additionally, estimates of completeness for pneumonia and influenza deaths may provide context for understanding the lag in reporting for COVID-19 deaths, as it is anticipated that these causes would have similar delays in reporting, processing, and coding.


When in doubt, go to the source material.
So while I might not know the intricacies of viral antibodies, I do know medical statistics and health study design. Reading through the methodology, all of this seems rather straight forward. They are looking for a U07.1 submitted as a medical code on a death certificate. This seems pretty straight forward for most people unless you regularly look at medical claims data, like I do. When someone is admitted into the hospital, they often get several diagnosis codes, especially if they are very sick. So if they are having respiratory issues along with some renal issues, they will put a diagnosis code (or several) for the respiratory illness, but ON THE SAME CLAIM, they will also put a diagnosis code of acute renal issues. I have seen up to 12 diagnosis codes for one person on one claim. It simply is a list of ALL the things that are going wrong. So if someone dies and they have renal complications, heart failure, and respiratory problems all at the same time, all of these diagnosis codes would be on their death certificate.

If you look at the text where they talk about comorbidities and disease, you see where this gets tricky:

Table 3 shows the types of health conditions and contributing causes mentioned in conjunction with deaths involving coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19). For 6% of the deaths, COVID-19 was the only cause mentioned. For deaths with conditions or causes in addition to COVID-19, on average, there were 2.6 additional conditions or causes per death.


So what the study is saying is that 6% of people that die from Covid have ONLY the U07.1 diagnosis code on their death certificate. The rest of the people have more than one diagnosis code on their death certificate, so if someone had breathing problems induced by covid, the breathing issue would also be on their death certificate. So @Turbo is right. This article headline is VERY misleading. This study does NOT imply that only 6% of deaths were due to Covid. It is that only 6% of deaths were coded as having only covid and not any covid induced issues or any actual underlying comorbidities. Looking at the data, my headline would probably read, concurrence of Covid-19 with pnemonia, influenza, hypertension, and/or diabetes, especially in people over 65 is a deadly combo. I cannot be sure which came first here, but put them together and you've got a dangerous situation.
 
Note: Provisional death counts are based on death certificate data received and coded by the National Center for Health Statistics as of August 26, 2020. Death counts are delayed and may differ from other published sources (see Technical Notes).

Coronavirus disease deaths are identified using the ICD–10 code U07.1. Deaths are coded to U07.1 when coronavirus disease 2019 or COVID-19 are reported as a cause that contributed to death on the death certificate. These can include laboratory confirmed cases, as well as cases without laboratory confirmation. If the certifier suspects COVID-19 or determines it was likely (e.g., the circumstances were compelling within a reasonable degree of certainty), they can report COVID-19 as “probable” or “presumed” on the death certificate (5, 6). COVID-19 is listed as the underlying cause on the death certificate in 94% of deaths (see Table 1).

Pneumonia deaths are identified using multiple cause-of-death codes from the 10th Revision of ICD (ICD–10): J12–J18, excluding deaths that involve influenza (J09–J11). Influenza deaths are identified from the ICD–10 codes J09–J11, and include deaths with pneumonia or COVID-19 listed as a contributing cause of death.

Pneumonia and influenza deaths are included to provide context for understanding the completeness of COVID-19 mortality data and related trends. Deaths due to COVID-19 may be misclassified as pneumonia or influenza deaths in the absence of positive test results, and pneumonia or influenza may appear on death certificates as a comorbid condition. Additionally, COVID-19 symptoms can be similar to influenza-like illness, thus deaths may be misclassified as influenza. Thus, increases in pneumonia and influenza deaths may be an indicator of excess COVID-19-related mortality. Additionally, estimates of completeness for pneumonia and influenza deaths may provide context for understanding the lag in reporting for COVID-19 deaths, as it is anticipated that these causes would have similar delays in reporting, processing, and coding.


When in doubt, go to the source material.
So while I might not know the intricacies of viral antibodies, I do know medical statistics and health study design. Reading through the methodology, all of this seems rather straight forward. They are looking for a U07.1 submitted as a medical code on a death certificate. This seems pretty straight forward for most people unless you regularly look at medical claims data, like I do. When someone is admitted into the hospital, they often get several diagnosis codes, especially if they are very sick. So if they are having respiratory issues along with some renal issues, they will put a diagnosis code (or several) for the respiratory illness, but ON THE SAME CLAIM, they will also put a diagnosis code of acute renal issues. I have seen up to 12 diagnosis codes for one person on one claim. It simply is a list of ALL the things that are going wrong. So if someone dies and they have renal complications, heart failure, and respiratory problems all at the same time, all of these diagnosis codes would be on their death certificate.

If you look at the text where they talk about comorbidities and disease, you see where this gets tricky:

Table 3 shows the types of health conditions and contributing causes mentioned in conjunction with deaths involving coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19). For 6% of the deaths, COVID-19 was the only cause mentioned. For deaths with conditions or causes in addition to COVID-19, on average, there were 2.6 additional conditions or causes per death.


So what the study is saying is that 6% of people that die from Covid have ONLY the U07.1 diagnosis code on their death certificate. The rest of the people have more than one diagnosis code on their death certificate, so if someone had breathing problems induced by covid, the breathing issue would also be on their death certificate. So @Turbo is right. This article headline is VERY misleading. This study does NOT imply that only 6% of deaths were due to Covid. It is that only 6% of deaths were coded as having only covid and not any covid induced issues or any actual underlying comorbidities. Looking at the data, my headline would probably read, concurrence of Covid-19 with pnemonia, influenza, hypertension, and/or diabetes, especially in people over 65 is a deadly combo. I cannot be sure which came first here, but put them together and you've got a dangerous situation.
I mean, that's how I took it except i'm having trouble understanding how 6% of people DIE from COVID without anything else going awry along the way. Like, what exactly killed you? COVID itself isn't exactly deadly, no more than long falls. It's the shredded lungs and heart stress much like the sudden stop at the bottom. My guess is that in 6% of cases the staff was either too busy or too green to properly code out the rest of the issues.
 
The title of this thread should probably be changed to amend the "2020" because let's face it, at this rate that is a very optimistic assumption.
 
I mean, that's how I took it except i'm having trouble understanding how 6% of people DIE from COVID without anything else going awry along the way. Like, what exactly killed you? COVID itself isn't exactly deadly, no more than long falls. It's the shredded lungs and heart stress much like the sudden stop at the bottom. My guess is that in 6% of cases the staff was either too busy or too green to properly code out the rest of the issues.

Exactly. It's just that the only code written on their death certificate is the COVID19. For whatever reason, nothing else was inscribed. Could be the interpretation of the individuals filling out the certificate. Could also be that maybe nobody monitored the symptoms before death (as in the person was found dead in their house), but they know it's a COVID19 death from a test and didn't look further. I don't believe these certificates are always fully comprehensive. I would interpret this as (at least) 6% of the deaths are incompletely documented.
 
I mean, that's how I took it except i'm having trouble understanding how 6% of people DIE from COVID without anything else going awry along the way. Like, what exactly killed you? COVID itself isn't exactly deadly, no more than long falls. It's the shredded lungs and heart stress much like the sudden stop at the bottom. My guess is that in 6% of cases the staff was either too busy or too green to properly code out the rest of the issues.
As someone who has had the task of cleaning up data sent from hospitals, there are so many different reasons and many of them have to do with incomplete record keeping.
 
Note: Provisional death counts are based on death certificate data received and coded by the National Center for Health Statistics as of August 26, 2020. Death counts are delayed and may differ from other published sources (see Technical Notes).

Coronavirus disease deaths are identified using the ICD–10 code U07.1. Deaths are coded to U07.1 when coronavirus disease 2019 or COVID-19 are reported as a cause that contributed to death on the death certificate. These can include laboratory confirmed cases, as well as cases without laboratory confirmation. If the certifier suspects COVID-19 or determines it was likely (e.g., the circumstances were compelling within a reasonable degree of certainty), they can report COVID-19 as “probable” or “presumed” on the death certificate (5, 6). COVID-19 is listed as the underlying cause on the death certificate in 94% of deaths (see Table 1).

Pneumonia deaths are identified using multiple cause-of-death codes from the 10th Revision of ICD (ICD–10): J12–J18, excluding deaths that involve influenza (J09–J11). Influenza deaths are identified from the ICD–10 codes J09–J11, and include deaths with pneumonia or COVID-19 listed as a contributing cause of death.

Pneumonia and influenza deaths are included to provide context for understanding the completeness of COVID-19 mortality data and related trends. Deaths due to COVID-19 may be misclassified as pneumonia or influenza deaths in the absence of positive test results, and pneumonia or influenza may appear on death certificates as a comorbid condition. Additionally, COVID-19 symptoms can be similar to influenza-like illness, thus deaths may be misclassified as influenza. Thus, increases in pneumonia and influenza deaths may be an indicator of excess COVID-19-related mortality. Additionally, estimates of completeness for pneumonia and influenza deaths may provide context for understanding the lag in reporting for COVID-19 deaths, as it is anticipated that these causes would have similar delays in reporting, processing, and coding.


When in doubt, go to the source material.
So while I might not know the intricacies of viral antibodies, I do know medical statistics and health study design. Reading through the methodology, all of this seems rather straight forward. They are looking for a U07.1 submitted as a medical code on a death certificate. This seems pretty straight forward for most people unless you regularly look at medical claims data, like I do. When someone is admitted into the hospital, they often get several diagnosis codes, especially if they are very sick. So if they are having respiratory issues along with some renal issues, they will put a diagnosis code (or several) for the respiratory illness, but ON THE SAME CLAIM, they will also put a diagnosis code of acute renal issues. I have seen up to 12 diagnosis codes for one person on one claim. It simply is a list of ALL the things that are going wrong. So if someone dies and they have renal complications, heart failure, and respiratory problems all at the same time, all of these diagnosis codes would be on their death certificate.

If you look at the text where they talk about comorbidities and disease, you see where this gets tricky:

Table 3 shows the types of health conditions and contributing causes mentioned in conjunction with deaths involving coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19). For 6% of the deaths, COVID-19 was the only cause mentioned. For deaths with conditions or causes in addition to COVID-19, on average, there were 2.6 additional conditions or causes per death.


So what the study is saying is that 6% of people that die from Covid have ONLY the U07.1 diagnosis code on their death certificate. The rest of the people have more than one diagnosis code on their death certificate, so if someone had breathing problems induced by covid, the breathing issue would also be on their death certificate. So @Turbo is right. This article headline is VERY misleading. This study does NOT imply that only 6% of deaths were due to Covid. It is that only 6% of deaths were coded as having only covid and not any covid induced issues or any actual underlying comorbidities. Looking at the data, my headline would probably read, concurrence of Covid-19 with pnemonia, influenza, hypertension, and/or diabetes, especially in people over 65 is a deadly combo. I cannot be sure which came first here, but put them together and you've got a dangerous situation.


Thanks for the very detailed write up on what the report actually means.

I tried using some talking points from it against my father and uncle without any luck. To them, that news story and the data proves beyond doubt that the death count is inflated and all deaths are getting the coded as COVID. They died of this, but tested positive for COVID so their death is listed as COVID. Said if they did the same for the flu the world would be an even scarier place. There is no reasoning with them.

Edit: fixed typos and autocorrects
 
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Teachers in North Andover MA were required to show up to work today to start preparing the classrooms for school to start next week.

North Andover, like many Boston area school districts have chosen have a hybrid style learning environment this fall.

Teachers are not happy about this and believe they should be 100% remote learning. They fear the buildings are not safe, there is poor air circulation and that they could become infected and bring COVID-19 home to high risk family members.

As promised, teachers went on strike. They sat out on the front steps the first day refusing to enter the building. The teachers union is fighting the decision the school distract made for hybrid learning.

The school district is disappointed by the teachers actions stating they believe their buildings are safe and that teachers provide vital services to our communities. The school district is expected to take this to court tomorrow and seek an order to force the teachers to return to work.

Many Boston area school districts including Boston have had teachers say they would not show up for in person classes because they do not feel safe. This dispute is likely to happen several more times in different communities over the next week as teachers start reporting back.
 
Things just escalated in North Andover.

Breaking News:

The teachers union passed a vote of "no confidence" against the districts super intendant.

"His behavior during the COVID-19 pandemic has reached a point where his autocratic style of management can no longer be tolerated."
 
Discussing this on another forum.

It's amazing how many people are saying "The teachers should be forced back to work, and if they don't go back to work they should be fired".

There are some people that say the union has a valid complaint about safety. And It is the unions job to stand up for safe working conditions.

Philly area schools are expected to strike as well when teachers return to the classroom.

Another interesting thing I saw people commenting on is where communities have opted for 100% remote learning, private and religious schools are open for in person classes. Many of these schools have had low attendance for years and are on the verge of closing. This year they are full and do not have the capacity to meet the demand. Parents are are the breaking point of trying to manage childcare and helping their child with schooling while working. They will gladly pay to send their kids to school for the day.
 
It's amazing how many people are saying "The teachers should be forced back to work, and if they don't go back to work they should be fired".
I don't know about your state, but the idea that just firing all the teachers would put you in a situation where you could replace them remotely easily or quickly is hilarious to me down here where we have had a big teacher shortage problem for quite a while.
 
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