Phono Cartridges - Your favorites and least favorites?
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kvetcha
Chet Hanks' Filmography Buff
I believe there are folks here who have experience with one or the other, or both.
@HiFi Guy @HuddieLedbetter
Selaws
Well-Known Member
Does anyone have any opinions/experience with the Ortofon Blue 2M Cartridge?
I currently use a Pro-ject Classic with the Silver 2M and I'm either going to get a replacement stylus for the silver (around £75) or shell out a bit more for a Blue Cartridge (approx £190). I was hoping to get one in the Black Friday sales but there wasn't any that I could see.
Cheers
I currently use a Pro-ject Classic with the Silver 2M and I'm either going to get a replacement stylus for the silver (around £75) or shell out a bit more for a Blue Cartridge (approx £190). I was hoping to get one in the Black Friday sales but there wasn't any that I could see.
Cheers
Joe Mac
Well-Known Member
Yeah I upgraded a red cartridge with a blue stylus about 5 years ago. The silver is the same stylus as the red with an improved cartridge. It was night and day, the blue was so far ahead I was actually shocked by the difference. You don’t need a blue cartridge though, the blue/red/silver cartridges are the same (the improvement on the silver cartridge isn’t anything structural, it is silver plated copper coils rather than copper coils) and so the styli are also interchangeable. On my red I just clipped off the red and clipped on the blue, you can do the same with the blue stylus on your silver.
Mather
Unknown Member
1000% just get the blue upgrade stylus. Shouldn't be too expensive. I had the silver and ME NO LIKEY. Especially with all the Jazz you spin I think you will benefit greatly from the upgrade over the silver.
Selaws
Well-Known Member
Fantastic, these are the exact sort of responses I was hoping for, cheers guys. Saved me a bit of money as well potentially as I was thinking I would need the cartridge. I'm not too clued up on equipment but it seems like the benefit of the silver cartridge is the silver coils, so potentially better than the blue cart anyway?
Either way, I will get the blue stylus as its not a whole chunk of money.
Joe Mac
Well-Known Member
Its a minor jump but a jump nonetheless. The main advantage is not having to change out the cartridge, the tonearm wires on the project tables are pretty thin so it’s a really fiddly job. Changing the stylus is a super easy clip off clip on job! You will really love the blue stylus though, I am sure of that!
Selaws
Well-Known Member
Perfect, cheers Joe. One to add to my Christmas list (or maybe sooner
)!
Mather
Unknown Member
You're going to get a lot more fullness to the sound and a lot of those potentially tinny sounding high hats are going to get a lot less tinny with the Blue.Perfect, cheers Joe. One to add to my Christmas list (or maybe sooner
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@isslewis I had the same Dyna cartridge drop a channel before it needed a retip. It was a bummer.
The Hana is a great move. So is the Ortofon Quintet Black S, which costs a couple hundred less.
Angsty
Well-Known Member
I have not used the Hana ML, but I do have the SL. I love mine with my Sutherland Insight phono. Great step up from my Ortofon 2M Blue. The only thing I might trade it for is the Hana ML!
Another member, @OranFoster, did a review of the MH:
Hana MH High Output MC Cartridge Review
By now, everyone knows the Hana story. They are made by the Excel Corporation of Japan, who has acted as a contractor for other companies for decades. About five years ago, they decided to market their own cartridges, starting out with the E and step up S series, priced at $475 and $750...
www.needlesandgrooves.com
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Selaws
Well-Known Member
I ordered an Ortofon 2M Blue stylus after chatting with @Joe Mac and @Mather the other day, and have just had quite an interesting call.
The supplier that I ordered the stylus from rang to say that suppliers across the country are having difficulty getting any Ortofon products because recent demand has been so high. He didn't have any of the 2M Blue in stock and he said it would be March/April time next year until they got any in. What he did have was the 2M Blue Cartridge and kindly offered to send that instead (the box was marked so I don't think he would sell it anyway).
The supplier that I ordered the stylus from rang to say that suppliers across the country are having difficulty getting any Ortofon products because recent demand has been so high. He didn't have any of the 2M Blue in stock and he said it would be March/April time next year until they got any in. What he did have was the 2M Blue Cartridge and kindly offered to send that instead (the box was marked so I don't think he would sell it anyway).
Joe Mac
Well-Known Member
Sure that’s fine if you’re getting it for the same price. You can just clip the blue stylus off it and onto your silver cart that’s mounted! Can keep the blue cart as a backup! The whole world supply chain really has gone mental right now!
Selaws
Well-Known Member
Yes, exactly that. He offered it up for the same price and I figured I would just switch out the stylus and have a backup cartridge.
Really is crazy as it wasn't just that Blue cart either, it was their whole stock of Ortofon hardware.
HayesWeighsIn
Well-Known Member
Had the opportunity to demo a Grado Opus3, and have some interesting findings!
In a nutshell, coming from series 2 Prestige experience, it's true that the Opus3 just has more of all the great qualities of a Prestige. It's just better, period. The low end is round, rich, and intoxicating, and the top end is even more clear and detailed than an 8MZ. It tracks inner grooves much more accurately, with less distortion throughout the side. It's extremely musical - sometimes I got lost in it, other times I audibly "wow!"'d. Some of its most impressive qualities are in the soundstage. It is remarkably wide, stereo separation is 3D and lifelike in a way that I haven't experienced before.
However, of that same wide soundstage is where I encountered an issue, at least in my setup. I initially thought that my right channel was coming in a smidge quieter than my left. I rebalanced without improvement, then checked Azimuth, which perhaps was just a tick off. It was tricky to see with my ruler, but I put the possibility in play. Unfortunately on the VPI Cliffwood, Azimuth isn't adjustable, but the Opus did come with a couple of nuts/spacers that I didn't initially use, and one of those seemed to satisfy my eye that any tilt was corrected. Initially I did notice a bit more juice out of the right channel as was corrected for, but something still wasn't quite right.
Then it clicked for me that vinyl is cut lat/vert, or mid/side, meaning there is information in the center of the image, and information on the left and right sides. What I experienced was that the lateral audio was unbalanced - the hard panned stuff on the left was coming in stronger, with more presence and top end than the right channel side audio. For example, if there was a cut with hard panned guitars, the left channel guitar would be much cleaner, more present, and therefore appear louder than the right side, which in comparison felt muffled and less dynamic.
To make sure I wasn't going crazy and to rule out any issue with the turntable, I switched back to the Goldring E3 I'd had on previously, and sure enough, a balanced picture emerged from the hard panned audio, albeit not with quite the vividness of the Opus3, but vastly more balanced. And a silver lining here, I was never really wowed with the Goldring, but after re-mounting, it clicked for me. It now sounds lively and exciting to my ear, without being overly bright. It's a rocker! Funny how fickle of a format this is!
Anyway, apologies for the essay, but hopefully some of this was useful? To finish with a question for all - has anyone experienced this issue before? My only thought is that perhaps since the VPI has no anti-skate, that the Opus3 would perform better with it - maybe it was riding the inner wall of the groove harder, which would be the right channel, and that had some effect on the dynamics? I enjoyed the Opus so much that I might just be crazy enough to give it a roll on another deck! Haha.
Massive thank you in order to @AnthonyI for making all of this possible. Spin on everybody!
In a nutshell, coming from series 2 Prestige experience, it's true that the Opus3 just has more of all the great qualities of a Prestige. It's just better, period. The low end is round, rich, and intoxicating, and the top end is even more clear and detailed than an 8MZ. It tracks inner grooves much more accurately, with less distortion throughout the side. It's extremely musical - sometimes I got lost in it, other times I audibly "wow!"'d. Some of its most impressive qualities are in the soundstage. It is remarkably wide, stereo separation is 3D and lifelike in a way that I haven't experienced before.
However, of that same wide soundstage is where I encountered an issue, at least in my setup. I initially thought that my right channel was coming in a smidge quieter than my left. I rebalanced without improvement, then checked Azimuth, which perhaps was just a tick off. It was tricky to see with my ruler, but I put the possibility in play. Unfortunately on the VPI Cliffwood, Azimuth isn't adjustable, but the Opus did come with a couple of nuts/spacers that I didn't initially use, and one of those seemed to satisfy my eye that any tilt was corrected. Initially I did notice a bit more juice out of the right channel as was corrected for, but something still wasn't quite right.
Then it clicked for me that vinyl is cut lat/vert, or mid/side, meaning there is information in the center of the image, and information on the left and right sides. What I experienced was that the lateral audio was unbalanced - the hard panned stuff on the left was coming in stronger, with more presence and top end than the right channel side audio. For example, if there was a cut with hard panned guitars, the left channel guitar would be much cleaner, more present, and therefore appear louder than the right side, which in comparison felt muffled and less dynamic.
To make sure I wasn't going crazy and to rule out any issue with the turntable, I switched back to the Goldring E3 I'd had on previously, and sure enough, a balanced picture emerged from the hard panned audio, albeit not with quite the vividness of the Opus3, but vastly more balanced. And a silver lining here, I was never really wowed with the Goldring, but after re-mounting, it clicked for me. It now sounds lively and exciting to my ear, without being overly bright. It's a rocker! Funny how fickle of a format this is!
Anyway, apologies for the essay, but hopefully some of this was useful? To finish with a question for all - has anyone experienced this issue before? My only thought is that perhaps since the VPI has no anti-skate, that the Opus3 would perform better with it - maybe it was riding the inner wall of the groove harder, which would be the right channel, and that had some effect on the dynamics? I enjoyed the Opus so much that I might just be crazy enough to give it a roll on another deck! Haha.
Massive thank you in order to @AnthonyI for making all of this possible. Spin on everybody!
It may be the fact that your arm has no anti skate. I’m assuming you borrowed the Opus from @AnthonyI ? If so, I think we can rule out a faulty cartridge. No issues on his tables, both of which have anti skate.
One thing I’ve learned is that more expensive cartridges are built to tighter tolerances as witnessed by my Jolida/Black Ice Audio FOZ XTR. When adjusted, it shows that both the Hana MH ($1200) and Ortofon Quintet Black S ($999) have far less crosstalk between channels and tighter channel balance than the Grado Gold3. But then at 4x the money (or more) they should be better. The Grado is certainly no slouch.
I recently learned that the 8MZ stylus was upgraded in the last couple of years. The diamond cut is smaller than it used to be. It’s also smaller than the Gold3 stylus. I’ll run my 8MZ for a year- but next Christmas I think I’m going to go whole hog for a XTZ stylus.
HayesWeighsIn
Well-Known Member
Really appreciate your input, @HiFi Guy !
That’s definitely what I’m thinking re: anti-skate. We can certainly rule out anything faulty with the cart itself!
I tell you, the next time a good deal on an UltraDeck comes up, I might just be game to grab it to give the Opus another go, and if that’ll undoubtedly open the door to better and better carts, I’m going to need to have the full gamut of adjustments available anyway! Haha. Down the hole we go!
XTZ - holy smokes. Excited for that for you. Better be good next year!