Phono Cartridges - Your favorites and least favorites?

Angsty said:
@Mather - may be an odd question, but I’ll ask anyway. Did you ever try the Bronze stylus in place of the Black on the 2M? I rather liked the Bronze on my VPI, although I had not heard the Black.

When I retipped my Hana SL, I went with a line contact stylus instead of the Shibata on the recommendation of the re-tipper and have been quite happy with the result.

“... the 2M Bronze is the more satisfying over the long haul, halving the difference between the Black's speed and resolution and the Blue's balance. In fact ... it is a mixture of all of these sonic virtues. It's fast, but not ostentatiously so; it turns information into music, and it does this because it is better balanced, neither leaning in one sonic direction or another. I would say that it represents not just the 2M line's sweet spot but also its musical core. ...” - Marc Mickelson, The Audio Beat

Edit: Added the quote
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Who did you use to retip the Hana? Mines at the end of life on the current tip.
 
Selaws said:
I ordered an Ortofon 2M Blue stylus after chatting with @Joe Mac and @Mather the other day, and have just had quite an interesting call.

The supplier that I ordered the stylus from rang to say that suppliers across the country are having difficulty getting any Ortofon products because recent demand has been so high. He didn't have any of the 2M Blue in stock and he said it would be March/April time next year until they got any in. What he did have was the 2M Blue Cartridge and kindly offered to send that instead (the box was marked so I don't think he would sell it anyway).
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@Selaws - So now that you’ve settled in nicely with the Blue, when do you try out the Bronze? 😁
 
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HiFi Guy said:
I don’t think you can look at anything on a stylus/cartridge assembly in a vacuum.

I’d totally agree the 2m Blue has lower moving mass than the 2m Red due the nude mounted stylus. Moving Magnet cartridges have the highest moving mass though. Moving Coils have less. Moving Iron have the least.

I’d be willing to wager a bet that the Grado Prestige series has much lower moving mass as opposed to any Moving Magnet cartridge, even with their bonded styli. The only part that moves in a Moving Iron cartridge (Grado, Nagaoka MP, Goldring 2000 series, Soundsmith) is the cantilever itself. The magnets and coils are stationary.
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I got an education this week regarding cartridge moving mass. A member at ASR accumulated a database of effective tip mass from published cartridge specs which I reviewed.

The upshot: some MMs have lower moving mass than some LOMCs and Soundsmiths were in the middle of the pack. Advancements in magnets have likely helped reduce MM moving mass. Different cantilever materials/designs can have a significant impact on moving mass for carts of any type.

It may not change your mind about your preferences for specific carts, but I did find the rebuttal of conventional wisdom to be intriguing.

www.audiosciencereview.com

Phono Cartridge Equivalent/Effective Tip Mass Master List

****EDIT: As of Aug 23, 2024 I will no longer be updating this list. The latest information can be found: https://docs.myhi.fi/ **** Dropping this here to get it off my desktop. The original list was posted on VE IIRC, though I've added a lot to it. All the original numbers were three...
www.audiosciencereview.com www.audiosciencereview.com
 
Angsty said:
I got an education this week regarding cartridge moving mass. A member at ASR accumulated a database of effective tip mass from published cartridge specs which I reviewed.

The upshot: some MMs have lower moving mass than some LOMCs and Soundsmiths were in the middle of the pack. Advancements in magnets have likely helped reduce MM moving mass. Different cantilever materials/designs can have a significant impact on moving mass for carts of any type.

It may not change your mind about your preferences for specific carts, but I did find the rebuttal of conventional wisdom to be intriguing.

www.audiosciencereview.com

Phono Cartridge Equivalent/Effective Tip Mass Master List

****EDIT: As of Aug 23, 2024 I will no longer be updating this list. The latest information can be found: https://docs.myhi.fi/ **** Dropping this here to get it off my desktop. The original list was posted on VE IIRC, though I've added a lot to it. All the original numbers were three...
www.audiosciencereview.com www.audiosciencereview.com
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Very cool info!

I will say, though, that many (perhaps all?) of the lowest moving mass MM on the list are no longer in production (a lot of Shures and Technics). Most of the low-moving mass cartridges you can still buy are MI and MC.

The technology was clearly there, but it may have coincided with the decline of vinyl playback in general, much like linear tracking tables.
 
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Angsty said:
@Selaws - So now that you’ve settled in nicely with the Blue, when do you try out the Bronze? 😁
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Almost inadvertently destroyed my cart like five separate times last night adjusting things while stoned. Not super smart HOWEVER, it's breaking in and it's definitely more forgiving than the Black on some pressings BUT I've already come across one press where it's picking up no fill that the Black actually didn't pick up which is interesting and also kinda terrifying because what fresh hell awaits me further into my collection on other more expensive presses that may have no fill that the Black somehow didn't track.
THE HORROR
 
Joe Mac said:
All I’ll say is that bronze cartridge is as divisive as hell, I hate it, so I might want to demo it first. Also a full cartridge swap rather than the stylus one up to the blue.
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Many carts can be divisive; I rather liked the Bronze on my Traveler (surprisingly) when I borrowed one for a few days. I may have felt differently if I had it for weeks. I may still go back to the owner to see how much he’d want for it.

But, I certainly would not recommend the Bronze if a person was on the fence about the Blue - @Selaws is not. But, for the record, I still prefer the Nagaoka MP-300.
 
Angsty said:
Many carts can be divisive; I rather liked the Bronze on my Traveler (surprisingly) when I borrowed one for a few days. I may have felt differently if I had it for weeks. I may still go back to the owner to see how much he’d want for it.

But, I certainly would not recommend the Bronze if a person was on the fence about the Blue - @Selaws is not. But, for the record, I still prefer the Nagaoka MP-300.
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I actually really like the blue, for its price range it’s fantastic and it’s a big step up from the red as a stylus swap. In the same range for a full cartridge I’d probably go Grado gold.

The bronze is by a distance the worst cartridge I ever heard. I wasn’t being entirely flippant saying screaming howler monkey in the other thread, I just found it a really painful listen. I’d always tell anyone considering it to exercise extreme caution, even if they like the blue.
 
Joe Mac said:
I actually really like the blue, for its price range it’s fantastic and it’s a big step up from the red as a stylus swap. In the same range for a full cartridge I’d probably go Grado gold.

The bronze is by a distance the worst cartridge I ever heard. I wasn’t being entirely flippant saying screaming howler monkey in the other thread, I just found it a really painful listen. I’d always tell anyone considering it to exercise extreme caution, even if they like the blue.
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I find this interesting and I think it really speaks to how different systems influence cart sound because my only criticism of the Bronze was that it could sound very sterile and CD ish but in no way at all did it howl on my system, quite the opposite it was almost too polite.
 
Mather said:
I find this interesting and I think it really speaks to how different systems influence cart sound because my only criticism of the Bronze was that it could sound very sterile and CD ish but in no way at all did it howl on my system, quite the opposite it was almost too polite.
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My biggest criticism of the blue was that I could get a little bit sibilant on sharp piano notes or higher pitched female vocals. My experience of the bronze was just that x20. I will say it was on demo and not in my own system but that demo ensured it was never coming within a million miles of my system.
 
Joe Mac said:
My biggest criticism of the blue was that I could get a little bit sibilant on sharp piano notes or higher pitched female vocals. My experience of the bronze was just that x20. I will say it was on demo and not in my own system but that demo ensured it was never coming within a million miles of my system.
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I had the Silver that came with my table which was the Red with silver coils and I couldn't get it off my table soon enough, it was so painfully sharp. The Bronze had absolutely none of that on my rig, it was a completely pleasant listen, but too pleasant at times. So yeah very different experiences.
 
Mather said:
I had the Silver that came with my table which was the Red with silver coils and I couldn't get it off my table soon enough, it was so painfully sharp. The Bronze had absolutely none of that on my rig, it was a completely pleasant listen, but too pleasant at times. So yeah very different experiences.
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Yeah I just had the standard red and it was ok with my initial less resolving system but as the gear got better it was clearly a bit of a dog. I really liked the stylus swap to the blue for the most part but there were pressings it absolutely didn’t like because of sibilance. Blonde on Blonde, Olivia Chaney and Blue are three that were definitely a little sharp. The bronze just felt like that amped up how I heard it but then you’re right, how a system plays together and our own preferences are definitely always at play.
 
Joe Mac said:
I actually really like the blue, for its price range it’s fantastic and it’s a big step up from the red as a stylus swap. In the same range for a full cartridge I’d probably go Grado gold.

The bronze is by a distance the worst cartridge I ever heard. I wasn’t being entirely flippant saying screaming howler monkey in the other thread, I just found it a really painful listen. I’d always tell anyone considering it to exercise extreme caution, even if they like the blue.
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Joe and I have very similar takeaways when it comes to the 2M Blue and Bronze. Different systems, but I found the Blue more musical than the Bronze. It might be unfair as I auditioned the Bronze right after a Grado, but it literally sounded like there was a high pass filter at like 125Hz in comparison. Just no low end whatsoever, and what was there was boxy in comparison to a Grado. For the extra detail up top, I dunno - vinyl's rolled off past like 12-13K anyway, doesn't need to sound like digital! Haha. That said, would love to hear a Bronze now a few more years down the line to see if I have the same takeaway.
 
Holy moly this cart man. I'm at 11 hours of break in of what's supposed to be about 30 and it's pretty wild.
Best description, whereas before the sound would kind of come at you in a horizontal wave that would kinda reach the back of the room behind your head and a bit above it. Now it's like a giant dome that starts about 20 feet behind the stereo in the neighbors yard, and goes about 20 feet high over the entire house and stretches about 30 feet behind you
Like instead of the music being in front of you running past you, now you're inside it. It's pretty unreal.

*Disclaimer... May have been not entirely sober at the time.
 
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