Television

TenderLovingKiller® said:
also...
I don't fully understand the symbolism of Hooded Justice painting on white make up while Sister Knight paints on black make up but it is something and is another part of this story that is really well done.
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On the podcast Lindelof was about to get to this point but they got sidetracked. I think what @Bull Shannon says rings true for me too.

As far as the payoffs, I think Lindelof has really learned from his LOST days (although I do think LOST’s conclusion is better than most give it credit for, especially after seeing more of his shows) and benefits from quicker payoff and tighter symbolism. He mentioned this on the podcast too, or maybe Craig Mazin did, keeping the balance towards mystery vs confusion. The biggest problems with LOST were likely Cuse and the network insisting on more seasons than the narrative needed.
 
zombie.modernist said:
On the podcast Lindelof was about to get to this point but they got sidetracked. I think what @Bull Shannon says rings true for me too.

As far as the payoffs, I think Lindelof has really learned from his LOST days (although I do think LOST’s conclusion is better than most give it credit for, especially after seeing more of his shows) and benefits from quicker payoff and tighter symbolism. He mentioned this on the podcast too, or maybe Craig Mazin did, keeping the balance towards mystery vs confusion. The biggest problems with LOST were likely Cuse and the network insisting on more seasons than the narrative needed.
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My take is that the finale was great, but the final season was iffy for me. Just a lot of loose-end-tying that didn't seem necessary. I remember them explaining the whispers in the jungle and thinking "it's a mysterious jungle that a lot of stuff comes out of; I didn't need to know why there was whispering happening in it. It really rubs me the wrong way when people act like the final episode was the stumbling point.
 
Bull Shannon said:
My take is that the finale was great, but the final season was iffy for me. Just a lot of loose-end-tying that didn't seem necessary. I remember them explaining the whispers in the jungle and thinking "it's a mysterious jungle that a lot of stuff comes out of; I didn't need to know why there was whispering happening in it. It really rubs me the wrong way when people act like the final episode was the stumbling point.
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Ahhh your take is pretty much the exact opposite of the common one. I would tend to agree that they sort of demystified the island a little bit at the end, which was particularly strange since the overall arc of the season was the most mystical one of all. I think Leftovers did a far better job of "letting the mystery be" (pardon the pun) for things that didn't impact the characters. I'm feeling that Watchmen will be more like that since the comic itself doesn't tie up all loose ends.
 
zombie.modernist said:
Ahhh your take is pretty much the exact opposite of the common one. I would tend to agree that they sort of demystified the island a little bit at the end, which was particularly strange since the overall arc of the season was the most mystical one of all. I think Leftovers did a far better job of "letting the mystery be" (pardon the pun) for things that didn't impact the characters. I'm feeling that Watchmen will be more like that since the comic itself doesn't tie up all loose ends.
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Well put with the mystical-yet-not observation. Allison Janney touching Jacob and the Man (boy?) in Black's shoulders and saying "I've made it so you can't hurt one another" sums up just how overly-mystical-yet-overly-mundane that season was for me. Like that was some real bogus hokum. But then the Richard episode was an all-timer, so...

I may be misrepresenting how great I think the finale was (I give it a solid 7 or 8 out of 10), but I guess my point to the folks hating the finale is, I'm having a lot of trouble understanding what show they were watching for the prior six years if the ending is where they see problems.
 
zombie.modernist said:
Ahhh your take is pretty much the exact opposite of the common one. I would tend to agree that they sort of demystified the island a little bit at the end, which was particularly strange since the overall arc of the season was the most mystical one of all. I think Leftovers did a far better job of "letting the mystery be" (pardon the pun) for things that didn't impact the characters. I'm feeling that Watchmen will be more like that since the comic itself doesn't tie up all loose ends.
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Completely agree about The Leftovers. It benefited from allowing the audience to draw it’s own conclusion about certain portions while still allowing for all sorts of crazy fun to happen. Some episodes were almost Lynchian in the way they unraveled like wild fever dreams but they were all extremely entertaining and emotionally enthralling. The Leftovers was damn near perfect. Probably a top 5 drama for me and Watchmen is riding the same path.
 
zombie.modernist said:
Agreed. I also think some fans were just straight sci-fi fans who wanted to know all about Dharma etc. Understandable but that wasn’t the part of the show that kept me watching.
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I really enjoyed the sci-fi elements but it wasn’t all I was interested in. As a whole I still love Lost, but the buildup to the end made it seem like it was going to be huge and it just wasn’t much for me. I don’t mind the ending in general. I did not, however, like the non flashback flashbacks in the final season. That payoff was not so good. And it seemed to confuse people cause I still read that people misread the ending as “they were in purgatory the whole time” which is not what happened.

Edit: also, just want to say that since Lost ended there hasn't been a show that has matched what it was like to watch it week-to-week for years. Sure, there are shows that offer up plenty to chew on and theorize about, but none hit that spot that Lost did.
 
S3 of The Crown was a bit of a let down. It had its moments, but for a show about the longest ruling Queen in history there was very little actual Queen.
 
TenderLovingKiller® said:
Completely agree about The Leftovers. It benefited from allowing the audience to draw it’s own conclusion about certain portions while still allowing for all sorts of crazy fun to happen. Some episodes were almost Lynchian in the way they unraveled like wild fever dreams but they were all extremely entertaining and emotionally enthralling. The Leftovers was damn near perfect. Probably a top 5 drama for me and Watchmen is riding the same path.
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I really loved the show as well. My only complaint was that that I much preferred seasons 2 + 3 over 1, as they pushed the envelope a lot more and we’re even more rich in theme. Watchmen is sort of on the Better Call Saul wave IMO where it’s preempted growing pains because the creator is so in the zone.
 
Bennnnn said:
I really enjoyed the sci-fi elements but it wasn’t all I was interested in. As a whole I still love Lost, but the buildup to the end made it seem like it was going to be huge and it just wasn’t much for me. I don’t mind the ending in general. I did not, however, like the non flashback flashbacks in the final season. That payoff was not so good. And it seemed to confuse people cause I still read that people misread the ending as “they were in purgatory the whole time” which is not what happened.

Edit: also, just want to say that since Lost ended there hasn't been a show that has matched what it was like to watch it week-to-week for years. Sure, there are shows that offer up plenty to chew on and theorize about, but none hit that spot that Lost did.
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Yeah I agree the flash forwards weren’t handled that well or really all that compelling compared to the flashing of prior seasons. Personally I think the show could have cut a season or two of spinning wheels and been much tighter as a result, as the biggest issue at that point for me was just “flash fatigue”, no matter if we were going back forwards or sideways.

Totally agree about LOST even though I didn’t watch on air till the last two seasons, it really was the richest show I can think of for mythology and character work. Not that that makes it the best show or even my favorite (though it would be up there for both) but it was fun as hell to watch.
 
Some of My Favorite Thanksgiving TV Episodes...

- Cheers: "Thanksgiving Orphans"
- Bob's Burgers: "Dawn of The Peck"
- The Simpsons: "Bart Vs. Thanksgiving"
- The West Wing: "The Indians in the Lobby"
- Happy Endings: "More Like Skanksgiving"
- Gilmore Girls: "A Deep Fried Korean Thanksgiving"
- Mad Men: "Dark Shadows"
- Master of None: "Thanksgiving"
- WKRP in Cincinnati’s: "Turkeys Away"

What are yours?
 
Woob_woob said:
S3 of The Crown was a bit of a let down. It had its moments, but for a show about the longest ruling Queen in history there was very little actual Queen.
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I'm a little more than halfway through S3 and I totally agree. I still find it interesting, but it feels much slower this season.
 
Jeff Lerner said:
I'm a little more than halfway through S3 and I totally agree. I still find it interesting, but it feels much slower this season.
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I really enjoyed the Aberfan episode, the one where Margaret goes to the US, and the Finale, but other than that I was disappointed. I think Coleman does a great job, but there is just too little of her. The Coup episode is soo bad I almost gave up on the season all together.
 
Wow, just finished Succession. I liked it wayyy more than I thought I was going to.
I thought S1 started bumpy and sagged somewhere in the middle. But once it hit its stride I found it to be totally binge-worthy. Great ending too. Not just the very end, but the scenes leading up to it as well.

Now I need something else...
 
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