That Escalated Quickly (aka Common Records Turned Rare)

it seems this has been creeping up in value all year...



I noticed the 1 for sale at $145.00 when I was making a new Discogs list of my Christmas albums - since they don't want to have any "Christmas" type genre, it can be hard to see them all.

And this one too:

 
This one too. I paid $20 which I thought was ridiculous for an old record at the time, but it has that song from Christmas Vacation which I love.

This one was an Insound $10 special, and I've had several people ask me to sell it.
 
So, I mean, can we just assume that Discogs info is just completely bonkers/broken at this point or are people actually paying these amounts? Because like it or not, Discogs plays an outsized role in pricing not just online but in a lot of records stores and I’d love to know who’s destroying the macroeconomy.
 
So, I mean, can we just assume that Discogs info is just completely bonkers/broken at this point or are people actually paying these amounts? Because like it or not, Discogs plays an outsized role in pricing not just online but in a lot of records stores and I’d love to know who’s destroying the macroeconomy.
there are a lot of buyers club situations going on lately it seems to drive up the prices of some albums. the tl:dr of that is people buy each others records at high prices with no intention of keeping the record. that's why you see stuff like Blonde selling for over $1,000. it artificially inflates the price of in-demand collectors type records.

the other thing that has happened in the past two years is that more people have gotten into vinyl. nearly every record listing has the people who list their albums for ridiculous prices. with so many people getting into vinyl, all the regular priced copies of a lot of albums are now just gone and all you're left with is the ridiculous prices. sometimes people pay it because they think that's what the current value/resale price is, other times they don't and that record just sits there.

somebody bought a record from me for $170 last year. the day they received it from me, they re-listed it for $300 and made it the highest priced listing of that album. all other copies of the album sold soon after and the only listed copy left was the $300. The guy then jacked the price up to $2500. Plus $7 shipping... because of course he won't do free shipping haha. i've seen this happening a lot. i've even sent questions to people about specific pressings only to see them not respond to me and jack the prices up because they realize they have the only copy left.
 
So, I mean, can we just assume that Discogs info is just completely bonkers/broken at this point or are people actually paying these amounts? Because like it or not, Discogs plays an outsized role in pricing not just online but in a lot of records stores and I’d love to know who’s destroying the macroeconomy.
If it shows up in past sales, I think it's a real transaction. Even if it was done to drive up the price on future sales.

Asking prices are another story entirely.
 
If it shows up in past sales, I think it's a real transaction. Even if it was done to drive up the price on future sales.

Asking prices are another story entirely.
that's where buyers clubs are coming in. you could sell me a copy of a Herb Alpert record for $1,000. that registers as a sale. you can keep the record and then send the money back to me. and it has changed the prices on discogs. all it has cost you is the percentage that discogs takes. obviously it wouldn't make sense for a herb alpert record, but if you're doing that with an album that has 10 sales, you can pretty drastically raise the price.

i have also seen it with a lot of the MoFi flippers. As soon as someone gets something that is sold out, they list it for $150. Once one person buys it, that kinda sets the market rate and the sellers try to amp up the FOMO by saying stuff like "the price will only go up from here!"
 
that's where buyers clubs are coming in. you could sell me a copy of a Herb Alpert record for $1,000. that registers as a sale. you can keep the record and then send the money back to me. and it has changed the prices on discogs. all it has cost you is the percentage that discogs takes. obviously it wouldn't make sense for a herb alpert record, but if you're doing that with an album that has 10 sales, you can pretty drastically raise the price.

i have also seen it with a lot of the MoFi flippers. As soon as someone gets something that is sold out, they list it for $150. Once one person buys it, that kinda sets the market rate and the sellers try to amp up the FOMO by saying stuff like "the price will only go up from here!"
Yeah, that's a sad state of affairs. I suppose it happens on eBay, too. Then it shows up on Popsike, Gripsweat, etc.
 
there are a lot of buyers club situations going on lately it seems to drive up the prices of some albums. the tl:dr of that is people buy each others records at high prices with no intention of keeping the record. that's why you see stuff like Blonde selling for over $1,000. it artificially inflates the price of in-demand collectors type records.

the other thing that has happened in the past two years is that more people have gotten into vinyl. nearly every record listing has the people who list their albums for ridiculous prices. with so many people getting into vinyl, all the regular priced copies of a lot of albums are now just gone and all you're left with is the ridiculous prices. sometimes people pay it because they think that's what the current value/resale price is, other times they don't and that record just sits there.

somebody bought a record from me for $170 last year. the day they received it from me, they re-listed it for $300 and made it the highest priced listing of that album. all other copies of the album sold soon after and the only listed copy left was the $300. The guy then jacked the price up to $2500. Plus $7 shipping... because of course he won't do free shipping haha. i've seen this happening a lot. i've even sent questions to people about specific pressings only to see them not respond to me and jack the prices up because they realize they have the only copy left.
I guess what I’m asking here is at what point 1.) should Discogs take some responsibility for this, 2.) should they no longer be considered a pricing authority, and 3.) should people be talking about this more or do we let the bad actors destroy the used market with insane inflation that isn’t real.

Maybe no one cares, I dunno. But I guarantee it’s having an impact on the overall vinyl economy. Discogs needs to step up and take a little responsibility for their own marketplace rather than just sit back and collect their cut.
 
I guess what I’m asking here is at what point 1.) should Discogs take some responsibility for this, 2.) should they no longer be considered a pricing authority, and 3.) should people be talking about this more or do we let the bad actors destroy the used market with insane inflation that isn’t real.

Maybe no one cares, I dunno. But I guarantee it’s having an impact on the overall vinyl economy. Discogs needs to step up and take a little responsibility for their own marketplace rather than just sit back and collect their cut.
I just don't see what discogs can do though realistically? what responsibility should they be taking? they can't stop the buyer's club people. there's no real way to prevent a sale like that from happening. you could say the sale only registers once tracking shows it being delivered, but then all i have to do is mail you some random item with tracking and it would still register as a sale. they can't tell people that they can't buy or sell certain albums at certain prices.

and the people buying albums for those prices are doing more harm than discogs is. but people can buy what they want for whatever price they want. that's why it always bothers me to see people paying crazy prices on albums that aren't even out of print. i see people paying crazy premiums on MoFis in particular that will be repressed. I almost got banned on the MoFi buy/sell facebook group for telling people that the Jeff Beck MoFi was not OOP while people were asking $150 for it (and they were selling left and right at that price). I made a post telling people that if they searched for the UPC of the MoFi on google, there were lots of indie shops that were selling the album at MSRP. My post was deleted by the mods there because it's mostly run by flippers. i also suggested that they don't let sales be posted on pressings that are less than 2 months old. the flippers really hated that one haha.

at least discogs has the historical sales aspect. things that are priced too high won't sell in most cases. i think things will eventually settle back down on those used prices for most albums.
 
I just don't see what discogs can do though realistically? what responsibility should they be taking? they can't stop the buyer's club people. there's no real way to prevent a sale like that from happening. you could say the sale only registers once tracking shows it being delivered, but then all i have to do is mail you some random item with tracking and it would still register as a sale. they can't tell people that they can't buy or sell certain albums at certain prices.

and the people buying albums for those prices are doing more harm than discogs is. but people can buy what they want for whatever price they want. that's why it always bothers me to see people paying crazy prices on albums that aren't even out of print. i see people paying crazy premiums on MoFis in particular that will be repressed. I almost got banned on the MoFi buy/sell facebook group for telling people that the Jeff Beck MoFi was not OOP while people were asking $150 for it (and they were selling left and right at that price). I made a post telling people that if they searched for the UPC of the MoFi on google, there were lots of indie shops that were selling the album at MSRP. My post was deleted by the mods there because it's mostly run by flippers. i also suggested that they don't let sales be posted on pressings that are less than 2 months old. the flippers really hated that one haha.

at least discogs has the historical sales aspect. things that are priced too high won't sell in most cases. i think things will eventually settle back down on those used prices for most albums.
Just to add a bit of spice to this debate, although Discogs' average should provide a good ballpark figure for averages I think they only really work for popular releases. When there is a constant turnover of sales then it should in theory reflect a realistic figure (unless buyers clubs get involved, as you explained).

I suppose where this doesn't work is with rarer records that don't sell too often or with records that are really obscure. I tend to use Popsike as my 'go to' when I'm considering buying these kinds of records where possible.
 
I just don't see what discogs can do though realistically? what responsibility should they be taking? they can't stop the buyer's club people. there's no real way to prevent a sale like that from happening. you could say the sale only registers once tracking shows it being delivered, but then all i have to do is mail you some random item with tracking and it would still register as a sale. they can't tell people that they can't buy or sell certain albums at certain prices.

and the people buying albums for those prices are doing more harm than discogs is. but people can buy what they want for whatever price they want. that's why it always bothers me to see people paying crazy prices on albums that aren't even out of print. i see people paying crazy premiums on MoFis in particular that will be repressed. I almost got banned on the MoFi buy/sell facebook group for telling people that the Jeff Beck MoFi was not OOP while people were asking $150 for it (and they were selling left and right at that price). I made a post telling people that if they searched for the UPC of the MoFi on google, there were lots of indie shops that were selling the album at MSRP. My post was deleted by the mods there because it's mostly run by flippers. i also suggested that they don't let sales be posted on pressings that are less than 2 months old. the flippers really hated that one haha.

at least discogs has the historical sales aspect. things that are priced too high won't sell in most cases. i think things will eventually settle back down on those used prices for most albums.
I think adjusting sales policies, transparency of listings, a tacit admission that their system is being used maliciously rather than putting a perceived “average value” front and center in the interface; shit, I could go on for days. They collect data, they can leverage it. Ask any data analyst about slicing and dicing collected info.

When you’re the de facto leader in a space you’ve got some responsibility to that space if a business is going to reap the rewards of it. And if they’re not, then as a community we need to be more vocal about ignoring those prices and values.

Don’t get me wrong, I like ‘cogs for managing my own collection. I think it’s useful as all get out to that end and for research/reference. It’s specifically the marketplace I have bones with. It’s irresponsible given the weight they carry to let things run like that.
 
I just think that there are people that list their entire collection for sale. If someone offered me $200 for any album in my collection I'd take it. If it had somehow sold for more, well then, just cancel the order. I've sold 200 records the last year and I can guarantee that if you really want to sell, you're not going to be selling at those high prices. The market will correct. I think you need to take the "Want vs. Own" statistic into consideration to know if the price is valid or not.
 
adjusting sales policies, transparency of listings
what does this look like though? that's what i don't understand. and what sales policies do they change? as i said, there's no real way for discogs to prove the buyer's club kind of sales. there will always be ways to skirt around it. if i posted my copy of Blonde for $2500 and someone wanted to pay that, then discogs cancels the sale because it's too far outside of their normal range of sale prices, i'd be kinda pissed...people can buy and sell albums at whatever price they want and i personally don't think discogs should be policing it. buyers just need to make informed decisions.

i can't remember what that new-ish vinyl marketplace is, but their system is pretty interesting. essentially you choose an album/pressing you want to buy and enter what you want to pay for it. then sellers of that album post what they want to sell at, and if there's a match, the item will sell to you.

discogs isn't jacking up prices and selling items themselves. i personally don't think discogs should have to explain to people the intricacies of data science or police every record sale. people can do their own research and decide if they wanna pay $600 for a charlie brown christmas album.
 
I find it hard to blame Discogs if record stores are using them as a pricing authority, it's really on the seller to determine how "right" that price is and the buyer to do their own research and soul searching to how worth it is is. I could be wrong but I don't think Discogs has really ever claimed to be a pricing authority, they just happen to be the easiest place to get historic pricing by pressing in one place.

Just as an example, there was a copy of Joni Mitchell's Song to a Seagull at my local who pretty much uses Discogs median as their pricing guide for anything used that needs a quick price in good condition (untagged but someone wants to buy). Turns out on the version they looked at, that number is now $20. The version they had was very clean with a bit of a cover rip, I'd probably say VG+/VG. It took me a few minutes to peruse other places (Ebay mostly) to see it in the $10 range, so when I decided to get it I went that route and got probably a VG/VG+ copy for that. Ultimately, Discogs volume of sales on most records isn't really high enough to set an accurate price range but if a buyer or seller wants to trust it, that's on them taking the risk and one most popular items, there's a bajillion pressings leading to variability and noise.

I do agree it's definitely having an impact, I just don't think it's something they can do much about without removing their pricing data entirely (which to be honest kills the site probably). Unless they're knowingly reporting fake sales of course. I do think they could also exclude true outliers in price averaging but the use of median as opposed to true average in their front page metrics kind of does that too and sometimes that weird price does reflect the market everywhere else. Like the Christmas Party above, the first four sales were 25, 25, 35, and 200....that $200 is closer to reality than $25 is now.

Here's a reverse example even


The record jumped from retailish pricing to values 4-8x that starting with a June 2021 sale. However, in this case, DIscogs was a severely lagging indicator. It has been acting like this in other markets (Ebay, Reddit, etc.) for 6+ months before hand - a record store using Discogs pricing would've taken a bath on this until the last few months. There's a big history of past sales on this particular item as well in other places.

In terms of the super high prices, I think it's a combo of malicious actors trying to find a sucker and, to Kris point, people who don't want to necessarily sell a record but at a certain price would. Like, let's take Marina and the Diamonds Froot

It's in the "Ms" on my playthrough so it's probably not going to be gotten to until after it's repressed (which she hinted would happen), but if someone wanted to give me like...$200 for that one, I'd let it go pretty quickly even if I don't want to sell it. But yeah, being the only seller listing above max on an imperfect copy (it'd probably be a VG+/VG+ copy) would look like a BS sale when that's just what I'd be willing to let it go for.
 
I just think that there are people that list their entire collection for sale. If someone offered me $200 for any album in my collection I'd take it. If it had somehow sold for more, well then, just cancel the order. I've sold 200 records the last year and I can guarantee that if you really want to sell, you're not going to be selling at those high prices. The market will correct. I think you need to take the "Want vs. Own" statistic into consideration to know if the price is valid or not.
Agreed. If people are asking too much for a record, you can always not buy it. I know it’s unpopular but I generally feel that it’s shitty to resell albums for far more than you’ve paid for them. Our own N&G marketplace regularly contains posts trying to sell records for $75-$100 which were purchased from VMP for less than half of that price. I know capitalism/supply & demand are real things, but that kind of gross inflation plain sucks.
 
people can do their own research and decide if they wanna pay $600 for a charlie brown christmas album.
This is inherently the issue. Given the lack of other resources and the dependency of the remaining ones on this primary (bad) data, the research options get thin real fast and the bad data becomes de facto gospel.

Given the amount of transactional data available - including specific buyer, seller, histories and general aggregate price data - I believe there’s a model that could be created to give a closer to realistic picture of value. But there’s no incentive for Discogs to do it. The damage is passed on to the market as a whole while Discogs collects their percentages.

Maybe it’s just a matter of letting competitors rise and force the issue. But until then, I’d take only take Discogs values with a grain of salt. Like a few others have said, you can’t stop uneducated consumers from paying a whackload and there’s no shortage of people with more cash than common sense or a shortage of people willing to exploit that.

Where it impacts us, as collectors (if only by habit, not as capital-c Collectors) is we will continue to be unable to get a reasonable estimate on the valuation of a collection, so that’s going to impact your buying, selling, and - if you’re real unlucky - replacement.

Anyway, take that for what it’s worth. Not saying anyone shouldn’t use Discogs, just saying maybe it’s time to stop holding it up as the standard and be aware of what you’re looking at.
 
Agreed. If people are asking too much for a record, you can always not buy it. I know it’s unpopular but I generally feel that it’s shitty to resell albums for far more than you’ve paid for them. Our own N&G marketplace regularly contains posts trying to sell records for $75-$100 which were purchased from VMP for less than half of that price. I know capitalism/supply & demand are real things, but that kind of gross inflation plain sucks.
I get why people sometimes feel icky about resale prices bring higher, but I guess I'm not sure where the line is drawn on that time-wise. If something goes up in value over time, I don't really consider it flipping or think it's gross if I want to sell it later at a higher price. If you just bought a VMP album for $30 and it sold out and you're trying to get $100 for it, I get why that feels gross and I don't think it's cool but people can do what they want. But I have also had people make offers to me on records that I bought 5+ years ago, then rant about how I'm a flipper if I don't want to sell it at the MSRP I bought it at. Just because I bought something for $15 doesn't mean I should sell it for $15 later on. But I do think there's kind of a time factor in when it stops feeling icky to resell something for a high price...

I have been trading albums more lately though which can be more fair if you find some trusted people to trade with.
 
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