The Blue Note Thread

HAIMtime said:
So just to follow up on this...
Came in the mail today, it’s probably closer to VG+ , but man it sounds so good. Pretty crazy to hold something that is 50+ years old in my hands, let alone for it to sound this good.
thanks @mitchwagz for posting this up here!
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This is perhaps my favourite line-up of the Jazz Messengers, the Philly crew. Morgan absolutely kills it on this one. Great find!
 
admerr said:
I’d be willing to get my retirement that it won’t be in the Tone Poet price range or less expensive than previous MMJ SRX releases. MMJ has to pay licensing fees where the Tone Poet series does not.
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Except if they did a special agreement with Blue Note for this "new serie". On another side, I don't see why they would lower the price for their records nor how they could justify this to their customers.
 
I believe it was a
admerr said:
I’d be willing to get my retirement that it won’t be in the Tone Poet price range or less expensive than previous MMJ SRX releases. MMJ has to pay licensing fees where the Tone Poet series does not.
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This, plus TP are purportedly selling 10,000 per title -- incredible for any jazz title -- while MMJ sells a fraction due to its non-distribution model.
 
admerr said:
I’d be willing to get my retirement that it won’t be in the Tone Poet price range or less expensive than previous MMJ SRX releases. MMJ has to pay licensing fees where the Tone Poet series does not.
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I'll stop posting about this, because I feel like I'm beating a dead horse and maybe I'm reading replies wrong, but it keeps seeming like people think that MMJs prices have anything to do with actual cost to them or reasonable profit margin.

I have a hard time believing that the SRX prices aren't a vast majority profit. They are re-using the same plates that should have already been paid for based on their original price point and pressing number of $30-$35 and some $40. Does it seem like they have to shell out a bunch of new licensing fees every time they repress? That seems unconventional to me. It seems like they are just printing money at this point.

Are some of the SRX 33 now and weren't part of the 33 campaign? If so, I suppose those were actually re-cut and would be a slightly different case.
 
They're not gonna lower their prices. People have been buying them at the high price point, why would they lower it if they aren't having trouble moving stock? Also, they have lowered prices on items to be 39.99 or 49.99 plus shipping. That's about as low as they get. Everything will be 59.99 or more you can bet on it.
 
Well, If Tone Poets are really selling 10k+ per title, MMJ may want to tweak its business model.

MMJ’s shortcomings have been well-documented on this thread - limited stock, pricing (supposedly) tied to stock levels, crap CS and single-source retail access. The SRX pressings sound good - no doubt about it. But do they sound TWICE as good as the 2019 Tone Poets? Nope - not to my ears. Do they sound THREE Times better than the BN80s? Maybe the packaging makes up for some of the cost difference between SRX v. BN80s, but it’s still hard to see THAT much daylight between the two pressings.

What MMJ does have are exclusive rights for some of the most coveted titles in the Blue None catalog. For now. We don’t know how long that arrangement is in place, do we? It’s all speculation, but it seems likely that the Blue Note-MMJ agreement is a long-term one.

I don’t think Don Was (or anyone?) could have ever predicted that the Tone Poet and BN80s would sell like they have. He’s not dumb - getting great pressings of as many Blue Note titles into the hands of as many listeners as possible is just smart business. Taking some of the “inflationary” air out of the secondary market of used Blue Notes puts the money directly into the label’s coffers. Yes, there will always be a fetishized market for early pressings - as there should be. But Was has a window here with a vinyl/jazz renaissance that may not open again for another 50 years. (After all, most of the titles we’re talking about are from the 50s and 60s.) Doesn’t it make sense to make these Blue Note titles MORE available (as they did with Tone Poets & BN80s) rather than push artificial scarcity and exclusivity?

While I have picked up a handful of early pressings from the Blue Note canon - OK, more than a handful - I have mostly stayed clear of the MMJ titles. It’s hard to justify $60-$100 for a single album - no matter how good it sounds. But I purchased ALL of the 2019 Tone Poets and more than half of the BN80s. And I can tell you that if Blue Note ever reissues the MMJ/SRX titles at the same quality/price point as the Tone Poets, I will buy Every. Single. One. And then I’ll buy a set for my teenage son for when he’s ready to explore some of what he’s been hearing me listen to just about every day of his life.

So, would Don Was rather sell me two complete sets of 25 classic Blue Note titles at $30/each or handful of exclusive SRX titles to a narrow audience of Jazzbos? Perhaps his hands are tied. But there’s no denying that the Tone Poets and BN80s have been two of the most successful reissue series in Blue Note’s storied history. And that’s saying something.

P.S. I didn't even get into the tertiary pursuit of Blue Note jazz artists/titles that I've purchased as a result of these reasonably priced reissues. Lonnie Smith. Robert Glasper. Andrew Hill. The listening public is ready to re/discover jazz in all its genres and styles.
 
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stpaulbrowns said:
Well, If Tone Poets are really selling 10k+ per title, MMJ may want to tweak its business model.

MMJ’s shortcomings have been well-documented on this thread - limited stock, pricing (supposedly) tied to stock levels, crap CS and single-source retail access. The SRX pressings sound good - no doubt about it. But do they sound TWICE as good as the 2019 Tone Poets? Nope - not to my ears. Do they sound THREE Times better than the BN80s? Maybe the packaging makes up for some of the cost difference between SRX v. BN80s, but it’s still hard to see THAT much daylight between the two pressings.

What MMJ does have are exclusive rights for some of the most coveted titles in the Blue None catalog. For now. We don’t know how long that arrangement is in place, do we? It’s all speculation, but it seems likely that the Blue Note-MMJ agreement is a long-term one.

I don’t think Don Was (or anyone?) could have ever predicted that the Tone Poet and BN80s would sell like they have. He’s not dumb - getting great pressings of as many Blue Note titles into the hands of as many listeners as possible is just smart business. Taking some of the “inflationary” air out of the secondary market of used Blue Notes puts the money directly into the label’s coffers. Yes, there will always be a fetishized market for early pressings - as there should be. But Was has a window here with a vinyl/jazz renaissance that may not open again for another 50 years. (After all, most of the titles we’re talking about are from the 50s and 60s.) Doesn’t it make sense to make these Blue Note titles MORE available (as they did with Tone Poets & BN80s) rather than push artificial scarcity and exclusivity?

While I have picked up a handful of early pressings from the Blue Note canon - OK, more than a handful - I have mostly stayed clear of the MMJ titles. It’s hard to justify $60-$100 for a single album - no matter how good it sounds. But I purchased ALL of the 2019 Tone Poets and more than half of the BN80s. And I can tell you that if Blue Note ever reissues the MMJ/SRX titles at the same quality/price point as the Tone Poets, I will buy Every. Single. One. And then I’ll buy a set for my teenage son for when he’s ready to explore some of what he’s been hearing me listen to just about every day of his life.

So, would Don Was rather sell me two complete sets of 25 classic Blue Note titles at $30/each or handful of exclusive SRX titles to a narrow audience of Jazzbos? Perhaps his hands are tied. But there’s no denying that the Tone Poets and BN80s have been two of the most successful reissue series in Blue Note’s storied history. And that’s saying something.

P.S. I didn't even get into the tertiary pursuit of Blue Note jazz artists/titles that I've purchased as a result of these reasonably priced reissues. Lonnie Smith. Robert Glasper. Andrew Hill. The listening public is ready to re/discover jazz in all its genres and styles.
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Bravo, very well-written. I am 100% in agreement — and alignment — with all your points.
 
stpaulbrowns said:
Well, If Tone Poets are really selling 10k+ per title, MMJ may want to tweak its business model.

MMJ’s shortcomings have been well-documented on this thread - limited stock, pricing (supposedly) tied to stock levels, crap CS and single-source retail access. The SRX pressings sound good - no doubt about it. But do they sound TWICE as good as the 2019 Tone Poets? Nope - not to my ears. Do they sound THREE Times better than the BN80s? Maybe the packaging makes up for some of the cost difference between SRX v. BN80s, but it’s still hard to see THAT much daylight between the two pressings.

What MMJ does have are exclusive rights for some of the most coveted titles in the Blue None catalog. For now. We don’t know how long that arrangement is in place, do we? It’s all speculation, but it seems likely that the Blue Note-MMJ agreement is a long-term one.

I don’t think Don Was (or anyone?) could have ever predicted that the Tone Poet and BN80s would sell like they have. He’s not dumb - getting great pressings of as many Blue Note titles into the hands of as many listeners as possible is just smart business. Taking some of the “inflationary” air out of the secondary market of used Blue Notes puts the money directly into the label’s coffers. Yes, there will always be a fetishized market for early pressings - as there should be. But Was has a window here with a vinyl/jazz renaissance that may not open again for another 50 years. (After all, most of the titles we’re talking about are from the 50s and 60s.) Doesn’t it make sense to make these Blue Note titles MORE available (as they did with Tone Poets & BN80s) rather than push artificial scarcity and exclusivity?

While I have picked up a handful of early pressings from the Blue Note canon - OK, more than a handful - I have mostly stayed clear of the MMJ titles. It’s hard to justify $60-$100 for a single album - no matter how good it sounds. But I purchased ALL of the 2019 Tone Poets and more than half of the BN80s. And I can tell you that if Blue Note ever reissues the MMJ/SRX titles at the same quality/price point as the Tone Poets, I will buy Every. Single. One. And then I’ll buy a set for my teenage son for when he’s ready to explore some of what he’s been hearing me listen to just about every day of his life.

So, would Don Was rather sell me two complete sets of 25 classic Blue Note titles at $30/each or handful of exclusive SRX titles to a narrow audience of Jazzbos? Perhaps his hands are tied. But there’s no denying that the Tone Poets and BN80s have been two of the most successful reissue series in Blue Note’s storied history. And that’s saying something.

P.S. I didn't even get into the tertiary pursuit of Blue Note jazz artists/titles that I've purchased as a result of these reasonably priced reissues. Lonnie Smith. Robert Glasper. Andrew Hill. The listening public is ready to re/discover jazz in all its genres and styles.
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Bravo!! I wish there was a way you could get this message to Don Was.
 
stpaulbrowns said:
Well, If Tone Poets are really selling 10k+ per title, MMJ may want to tweak its business model.

MMJ’s shortcomings have been well-documented on this thread - limited stock, pricing (supposedly) tied to stock levels, crap CS and single-source retail access. The SRX pressings sound good - no doubt about it. But do they sound TWICE as good as the 2019 Tone Poets? Nope - not to my ears. Do they sound THREE Times better than the BN80s? Maybe the packaging makes up for some of the cost difference between SRX v. BN80s, but it’s still hard to see THAT much daylight between the two pressings.

What MMJ does have are exclusive rights for some of the most coveted titles in the Blue None catalog. For now. We don’t know how long that arrangement is in place, do we? It’s all speculation, but it seems likely that the Blue Note-MMJ agreement is a long-term one.

I don’t think Don Was (or anyone?) could have ever predicted that the Tone Poet and BN80s would sell like they have. He’s not dumb - getting great pressings of as many Blue Note titles into the hands of as many listeners as possible is just smart business. Taking some of the “inflationary” air out of the secondary market of used Blue Notes puts the money directly into the label’s coffers. Yes, there will always be a fetishized market for early pressings - as there should be. But Was has a window here with a vinyl/jazz renaissance that may not open again for another 50 years. (After all, most of the titles we’re talking about are from the 50s and 60s.) Doesn’t it make sense to make these Blue Note titles MORE available (as they did with Tone Poets & BN80s) rather than push artificial scarcity and exclusivity?

While I have picked up a handful of early pressings from the Blue Note canon - OK, more than a handful - I have mostly stayed clear of the MMJ titles. It’s hard to justify $60-$100 for a single album - no matter how good it sounds. But I purchased ALL of the 2019 Tone Poets and more than half of the BN80s. And I can tell you that if Blue Note ever reissues the MMJ/SRX titles at the same quality/price point as the Tone Poets, I will buy Every. Single. One. And then I’ll buy a set for my teenage son for when he’s ready to explore some of what he’s been hearing me listen to just about every day of his life.

So, would Don Was rather sell me two complete sets of 25 classic Blue Note titles at $30/each or handful of exclusive SRX titles to a narrow audience of Jazzbos? Perhaps his hands are tied. But there’s no denying that the Tone Poets and BN80s have been two of the most successful reissue series in Blue Note’s storied history. And that’s saying something.

P.S. I didn't even get into the tertiary pursuit of Blue Note jazz artists/titles that I've purchased as a result of these reasonably priced reissues. Lonnie Smith. Robert Glasper. Andrew Hill. The listening public is ready to re/discover jazz in all its genres and styles.
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Insert standing up and applauding gif here
 
stpaulbrowns said:
Well, If Tone Poets are really selling 10k+ per title, MMJ may want to tweak its business model.

MMJ’s shortcomings have been well-documented on this thread - limited stock, pricing (supposedly) tied to stock levels, crap CS and single-source retail access. The SRX pressings sound good - no doubt about it. But do they sound TWICE as good as the 2019 Tone Poets? Nope - not to my ears. Do they sound THREE Times better than the BN80s? Maybe the packaging makes up for some of the cost difference between SRX v. BN80s, but it’s still hard to see THAT much daylight between the two pressings.

What MMJ does have are exclusive rights for some of the most coveted titles in the Blue None catalog. For now. We don’t know how long that arrangement is in place, do we? It’s all speculation, but it seems likely that the Blue Note-MMJ agreement is a long-term one.

I don’t think Don Was (or anyone?) could have ever predicted that the Tone Poet and BN80s would sell like they have. He’s not dumb - getting great pressings of as many Blue Note titles into the hands of as many listeners as possible is just smart business. Taking some of the “inflationary” air out of the secondary market of used Blue Notes puts the money directly into the label’s coffers. Yes, there will always be a fetishized market for early pressings - as there should be. But Was has a window here with a vinyl/jazz renaissance that may not open again for another 50 years. (After all, most of the titles we’re talking about are from the 50s and 60s.) Doesn’t it make sense to make these Blue Note titles MORE available (as they did with Tone Poets & BN80s) rather than push artificial scarcity and exclusivity?

While I have picked up a handful of early pressings from the Blue Note canon - OK, more than a handful - I have mostly stayed clear of the MMJ titles. It’s hard to justify $60-$100 for a single album - no matter how good it sounds. But I purchased ALL of the 2019 Tone Poets and more than half of the BN80s. And I can tell you that if Blue Note ever reissues the MMJ/SRX titles at the same quality/price point as the Tone Poets, I will buy Every. Single. One. And then I’ll buy a set for my teenage son for when he’s ready to explore some of what he’s been hearing me listen to just about every day of his life.

So, would Don Was rather sell me two complete sets of 25 classic Blue Note titles at $30/each or handful of exclusive SRX titles to a narrow audience of Jazzbos? Perhaps his hands are tied. But there’s no denying that the Tone Poets and BN80s have been two of the most successful reissue series in Blue Note’s storied history. And that’s saying something.

P.S. I didn't even get into the tertiary pursuit of Blue Note jazz artists/titles that I've purchased as a result of these reasonably priced reissues. Lonnie Smith. Robert Glasper. Andrew Hill. The listening public is ready to re/discover jazz in all its genres and styles.
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I think actually Don Was realized the interest was there after the 75th series. It was a failure in a quality sense but allowed them to see that the demand for vinyl is real among younger people. Don admitted that the quality was not where they wanted it to be so the next step was to raise the price a bit but not as high as MM so that it drove people away. It’s a bit of the decoy effect in action. You have the $10-$15 really shitty copies of records and then the $50 MMJ. TPs are priced pretty perfectly. You have the quality for audiophile listeners at half the price of MM and then you have it not too expensive for the younger people getting into jazz. For those of us in the US, it’s easy to get the TPs for $25. I’ve even gotten some for $18. And for those who don’t want to spend $25-35, the BN80s are there. It’s pretty smart but I don’t think it was a total shot in the dark. Doubt they knew it would sell QUITE this week but the writing was on the wall after the BN75s.
 
MikeH said:
I think actually Don Was realized the interest was there after the 75th series. It was a failure in a quality sense but allowed them to see that the demand for vinyl is real among younger people. Don admitted that the quality was not where they wanted it to be so the next step was to raise the price a bit but not as high as MM so that it drove people away. It’s a bit of the decoy effect in action. You have the $10-$15 really shitty copies of records and then the $50 MMJ. TPs are priced pretty perfectly. You have the quality for audiophile listeners at half the price of MM and then you have it not too expensive for the younger people getting into jazz. For those of us in the US, it’s easy to get the TPs for $25. I’ve even gotten some for $18. And for those who don’t want to spend $25-35, the BN80s are there. It’s pretty smart but I don’t think it was a total shot in the dark. Doubt they knew it would sell QUITE this week but the writing was on the wall after the BN75s.
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I think all the people who slept on MM when it was readily available at the Tone Poet price for years, suddenly wanting them when they were sold out and driving all the discogs prices >$100 has really helped people pull the trigger on the Tone Poets and of course BN80 as well. I'd be surprised if that wasn't part of the business case for getting these AAA, higher quality campaigns made, but maybe it was in the works longer than I think.
 
dhodo said:
I think all the people who slept on MM when it was readily available at the Tone Poet price for years, suddenly wanting them when they were sold out and driving all the discogs prices >$100 has really helped people pull the trigger on the Tone Poets and of course BN80 as well. I'd be surprised if that wasn't part of the business case for getting these AAA, higher quality campaigns made, but maybe it was in the works longer than I think.
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I remember the days when I thought $35 for a single LP was crazy haha. I’ve gotten used to it real quick.
 
Side note related to the pricing discussion- there’s still some really good MMJ titles for the original MSRP or lower available on their site. A few come to mind:
Tina Brooks - Back to the Tracks
Donald Byrd - the cat walk ($35 dollar 45rpm steal)
Paul chambers quintet
Lou Donaldson - Lou takes off
Johnny griffin - congregation
 
admerr said:
Side note related to the pricing discussion- there’s still some really good MMJ titles for the original MSRP or lower available on their site. A few come to mind:
Tina Brooks - Back to the Tracks
Donald Byrd - the cat walk ($35 dollar 45rpm steal)
Paul chambers quintet
Lou Donaldson - Lou takes off
Johnny griffin - congregation
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Yea it just sucks they charge $10 shipping...I’ve seen all of these on eBay pretty regularly at that price with free or cheaper shipping.
 
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