keylime_5
Well-Known Member
the Analogue Productions 45 of Somethin Else arguably sounds as good or better . You won’t be disappointed with it. Speak No Evil is harder to find I think at that price.
The Blue Note Thread
- Thread starter stpaulbrowns
- Start date
the Analogue Productions 45 of Somethin Else arguably sounds as good or better . You won’t be disappointed with it. Speak No Evil is harder to find I think at that price.
MikeH
Well-Known Member
So MM on Facebook has said the following things today...they can’t figure out how to prevent their site from crashing like it did last release so they won’t announce a date for the next batch until they sort that. Someone suggested raising the price to weed people out and drive demand down. MM said they have seen the SRX sell for $200+ in resale but have already committed to selling the rest of the titles this year at $75. Preorders were suggested to Ron and he didn’t want to do it because he didn’t want to take orders and hold onto peoples’ money while records had to be pressed. It took RTI 8 months to press the titles they wanted so he thinks he was right and they have no plans to preorder...
All in all, this does not bode well for future releases. It’s crazy that they keep seeing resale prices and it makes them want to raise prices again. Won’t be surprised to see these priced at $125 next year...they could also just press more and keep the money pouring in but seem to be far more concerned about resale prices.
All in all, this does not bode well for future releases. It’s crazy that they keep seeing resale prices and it makes them want to raise prices again. Won’t be surprised to see these priced at $125 next year...they could also just press more and keep the money pouring in but seem to be far more concerned about resale prices.
Russ I
Well-Known Member
One potential effect of their incredibly incompetent and frustrating rollouts is that flippers are just as stymied as those who really want to own these records, and I suggest this because, to date, there aren't any copies of Adderly's 'Somethin' Else' available for sale on Discogs.
Russ I
Well-Known Member
keylime_5
Well-Known Member
Fair enough, but that AP 45 is the same price as the SRX (though easier to buy!).
well I think only about 100-200 people so far got the SRX during the fiasco . I missed out. It’ll go on sale again but the quantities are definitely limited and the resale price will be probably over $200 soon. The AP has been sitting there in stock for us to buy. The heavyweight gatefold cover on the MMJ is the only thing truly superior, but the AP cover is glossy and pretty looking too albeit not heavyweight tip-on gatefold .
dropsonde
Well-Known Member
Could you link your source for this info? Would appreciate it.
I sure am curious where these records are being flipped for $200+. It doesn’t appear to be Discogs.
Blue Note vinyl sure can be depressing sometimes.
seeirwin
Member
It's over several comments from the MMJ group on facebook, but here's the meat of it:
Music Matters Jazz
Thanks, Alex. Taking pre-orders is something I recommended to the company in the past. For the remaining two titles, there's no pre-ordering because the titles have already been ordered and are sitting in the warehouse. We would still have to shut off "pre-orders" at our stock limit, which would cause the same problem as cutting of orders. I did encourage Ron to take pre-orders last year, and he didn't for a number of reasons, including that he was worried about holding on to people's money, or promising them a title and having to wait. Turned out to be almost 9 months before we got all the titles we ordered from RTI and then had to QC away enough of them that we wouldn't have been able to fulfill all the orders even after almost a year, so while I will never say never, I understand now why Ron doesn't want to accept pre-orders.
John Dark later goes on to say that they know some of the people who immediately flip these on eBay and, when their orders come in, they just immediately refund the purchase.
MikeH
Well-Known Member
@seeirwin linked the FB group. As for where they are being flipped, flippers are using eBay, not discogs. I was following several auctions on eBay for past SRX titles and most went for over $125 and some approached $200.
They raised the prices in the past on MMJ and I have no doubt they will raise them again next year. Instead of pressing more or continually pressing them, they would rather get more of the resale cut and jack the prices up...I get it...they are hard to press. They take awhile to get made and QCed. Maybe they can only press so many from BN (although I don’t know that’s really the case since they were considering preorders). But it’s at the points where a lot of people are pissed at the company. The comments on their Facebook, which seems to be the most active MM community, are overwhelmingly negative lately after hardly anyone could get copies of Sidewinder and Something Else. The fact that they think raising the price a lot is the best move for their customers being able to get their product says a lot about what they prioritize. To get rid of scalpers you just make it a much bigger press. That’s what MoFi did with the One Steps. People still try to flip them but everyone who wants one is likely able to get them when first released.
MikeH
Well-Known Member
Hardly anyone has received theirs so far because of the fiasco. I think flippers won’t stop. Also flippers are selling more on eBay instead of discogs. There are 5 SRX albums on eBay now for 199+. The cheapest SRX on discogs right now is $100 and it’s Johnny Griffin which is still available from the store for $60.
MikeH
Well-Known Member
Just noticed this comment from them as well from last month about Herbie and Grant Green:
A year ago, we could have placed an order for 1000 instead of 500, that's jackets, labels, and albums all ordered separately. We ordered 500 because last years order of that same quantity, even on the best and fastest selling titles took months to sell out. We still have Johnny Griffin in stock 15 months later. We wish we had ordered more.
A year ago, we could have placed an order for 1000 instead of 500, that's jackets, labels, and albums all ordered separately. We ordered 500 because last years order of that same quantity, even on the best and fastest selling titles took months to sell out. We still have Johnny Griffin in stock 15 months later. We wish we had ordered more.
MikeH
Well-Known Member
Because I personally think they like the flippers....it justifies (to them) raising the price. I do think the SRX vinyl is expensive to produce and quality control and it does seem to take ages to get them pressed. I remember them saying Blue Train was getting a repress WAY before it actually was released because RTI took forever. They have claimed in the past that they only can press a certain amount per their licensing agreement with Blue Note, but I call BS on that. They could easily renegotiate and their recentish post about how they could have gotten 1,000 pressed but only did 500 backs that up. The reason why popularity has gone up is that even though the original SRX were in the store for quite a long time before selling out, now that they sell out and are being flipped for 2-3x as much, flippers and even non-flippers are going through FOMO. MM pushes FOMO as much as VMP does. Their pricing structure of raising the price when inventory is low backs that up and so does their postings on facebook saying things like "get them now before they are gone!"
Keeping it artifically scarce actually helps their business IMO and is what is causing these to sell out within minutes. They are making almost 40k on each title within minutes of the records going up. If there was no fear of them raising the price or selling out, I'm not sure they would sell out as quickly, which would be great for buyers but MM doesn't see it that way.
I just really wish they would get over seeing what scalpers are getting for it and just press more copies or keep the pricing reasonable.
uvwxVinyl
Well-Known Member
I mean I also get that because let's say I knew something was going to be kept in print, I would think twice before buying it immediately. Maybe even prioritize another purchase before getting it.
Given how much the investment is for these guys to create the vinyl they probably don't want inventory sitting around and want their money.
If that's the case though they should just do the pre-orders with the disclaimer these will be ordered to the number of those that want it and help ease their traffic ensuring everyone gets it.
MikeH
Well-Known Member
Yea--I agree. But considering it takes 8 months to get the albums pressed, I sort of get their point about not wanting to take peoples' money that far in advance. I do think its the best way to do it though too. It might help cut down on scalpers too...There is something to be said about the Qrates type model. There are still some flippers (Vulfpeck stuff for example still sells at a premium on resale) but it's kind of the best of both worlds. You have a month long window to preorder, as many people get it as they want and everyone is happy. If you missed it within that month then that's on you.
Russ I
Well-Known Member
seeirwin
Member
Interesting you mention Vulfpeck, because I collect all of the Vulf and Vulf-adjacent vinyl and the recent releases support your point that, when everyone is able to preorder (or they are just pressed in sufficiently large quantities), the flipping really dies down. I think I paid $40 for my Vollmilch and have turned down offers of over $100 for it. Meanwhile, the more recent stuff sells for maybe $10 over the original cost and the market is flooded with copies. Jack also seems hyper-aware of the secondary market, btw. Check out his video on Vulfpek veblen goods.
I buy that MMJ does not have an unlimited license on these titles, and I think their days as the sole reissuers of so much of the top-shelf content are numbered. From the Blue Note/Universal Music Group perspective, it's got to be better to move to a model where you're putting out Blue Train, Speak No Evil, etc. like Tone Poets, keeping them in print and selling huge quantities. On the Hoffman forums, there are already people on the MMJ thread who definitely love the music, but recommend buying the MMJ 45s now because they think those will hold their value better, as Don Was does not seem interested in the 2x45RPM market.
agutierrezb
Well-Known Member
I'm really glad I pulled the trigger on Free For All when the first batch of SRX was released. This is one of my favorite BN albums ever, and quite frankly the amount I paid for it is right on the limit of what I would be willing to spend on a single record. There is no way I would pay more than $60 for FFA or Speak No Evil (another record at the top of my wantlist), either to MMJ or a Discogs/Ebay reseller.
bother
Well-Known Member
I'm glad I snagged Adam's Apple, it's one of my favorites and I got it for a (relatively) reasonable price.
I'm really hoping that @seeirwin is right and they do a Tone Poet release of some of the major albums. I'd bet anything they'd sell like crazy and make a ton of money for BN. Whenever that licensing deal dies out, I really, really hope they go that route, but I don't know. Since Harley is so involved in the TP process, it seems like it would be a little awkward to pull that deal from his own company, then make him produce them for Blue Note. Then again, Harley not being involved.... might not bad a bad thing. Use the same mastering engineer, same quality covers/pressing... no real need for a middle man.
But man, I don't know. It's amazing how fast the MMJ tides have shifted lately. Like, that first batch didn't sell out right away, I think it took days? The second batch I think stuck around for an hour, maybe two... and the last batch was a total shitstorm. It really does seem like they should just press more, but simply making their product more scarce and charging more means they can put less money up front and make more money on the back end. I think that's a short sighted and stupid way to do it, but I get it. They're a business, and it's pretty clear that they care about making as much cash as possible.
These next two are the only ones I actually want. So we'll see how that goes. I know I'll be at home, on my computer with the site pulled up and logged in, the second they drop. Sucks I have to even worry about being able to buy a couple of hugely overpriced records, but oh well.
btf1980
Well-Known Member
Music Matters is Ron Rombach's company. Joe Harley is his partner in the operation, but it's very much Ron's operation.
My thoughts? Blue Note will eventually reissue all the major Blue Note war horse titles. Their 80th anniversary was a test run with the Tone Poets and 80th series. If I were to guess, then I'd say they'll do the major titles for the 85th anniversary in 4 years. Expect one offs here and there, but they won't start a major reissue campaign randomly. It will be built around and centered on an occasion. I think the 85th anniversary fits the bill the best.
The Tone Poets will continue indefinitely as titles that are off the beaten path, underrated/unsung/unreleased, forgotten titles, and jazz records on other labels under the Universal Music Group umbrella (Pacific, United Artists, Solid State, Transition etc). The depth of the catalog with these other labels included means that the Tone Poets could go on for many years with a release schedule of two titles a month. That's a winning formula.
Reissuing the big titles like Blue Train, Moanin' etc as Tone Poets defeats the purpose of the series and is mixed messaging. The big titles will be reissued. It's just a matter of time. I've been collecting jazz records for a while, and I know how the reissue market is. If there's one thing you can take to the bank, it's that the war horse jazz titles will be reissued every few years. The next time around, we know we'll they'll be all analog reissues. They'll just do all analog pressings with tip-on glossy jackets. No gatefold with photos will be necessary.
Ghost
Original Resident Ghost
My favorite AP jazz pressings so far have beenOk, thanks for the response Marshall! I’m going to get it!
Anyone Have some recommendations on some great jazz Analogue Productions pressings? I’m going to pick up the AP 45RPM 2LP pressing of Charles Mingus’ “Black Saint and The Sinner Lady” soon!
I really like the Analogue Productions pressings I have so far, so would love to get some great jazz AP pressings recommendations! Especially Blue Note titles
Miles Davis - Someday My Prince Will Come
Dave Brubeck - Time Out
Billie Holiday - Songs for Distingue Lovers
Duke Ellington - Masterpieces (sounds RIDICULOUS)
Nat King Cole - Love Is The Thing (probs one of my best sounding records)
then again, those are all the AP presses I own so far. They did a huge BN sale a couple months back but I couldn’t afford any at the time so I missed out but there were some GREAT titles in there