The Blue Note Thread

I was on the fence about this Art Blakey and the Jazz Messengers "The Big Beat" BN classics album, but really glad I picked it up (thanks, PBC!). It's really fun. There's just so much momentum and the execution is so slick - the spotify stream definitely didn't do it justice.
 
I just watched the unboxing video that was posted earlier here for the Ornette Coleman box. When the guy mentioned that it included all of the albums that Coleman played on for Blue Note, the wheels in my head starting turning, and now I've convinced myself that the reason that so few Big John Patton albums have been released is that they're planning a tone poet box for him, too. I know that Harold Vick album is already slated for release this summer, but there are too many albums with BJP for them to make a single, comprehensive box out of anyway. According to Wikipedia, BJP was the bandleader on eleven Blue Note albums and a sideman on another seven (including the Vick album) - which I guess probably means they'd have to just pick and choose. Grant Green shows up on each of BJP's first six albums as bandleader for Blue Note, too, so they could highlight that angle, too.
 
Ericj32 said:
I just watched the unboxing video that was posted earlier here for the Ornette Coleman box. When the guy mentioned that it included all of the albums that Coleman played on for Blue Note, the wheels in my head starting turning, and now I've convinced myself that the reason that so few Big John Patton albums have been released is that they're planning a tone poet box for him, too. I know that Harold Vick album is already slated for release this summer, but there are too many albums with BJP for them to make a single, comprehensive box out of anyway. According to Wikipedia, BJP was the bandleader on eleven Blue Note albums and a sideman on another seven (including the Vick album) - which I guess probably means they'd have to just pick and choose. Grant Green shows up on each of BJP's first six albums as bandleader for Blue Note, too, so they could highlight that angle, too.
Click to expand...
Big John Patton isn't Ornette Coleman. Sales potential for such a box is way, way below that of Ornette.

Patton released 8 records on Blue Note while under contract, 3 of which are Liberty era records, the rest are CD-era vault digs. There may be a case for those first 5 to be in a box, but very unlikely as there are gems (That Certain Feeling) along with pretty lounge stuff (Let Em Roll, Got A Groovy Thing Going) and grease (Along Came John, The Way I Feel - which is IMO better). The ones with Green might fit a mold for a set, but to me, they are pretty standard fare easy listening.

Patton really started to smoke it with Understanding and Accent on the Blues, but Liberty era records tend to be dismissed by purists.

The reason so few Patton records are reissued is that there isn't a viable market. Music Matters did not do a single one.

The one that should be considered is Blue John. which sat in the vault for too long. IMO it is Patton's strongest BN date, with the under-served George Braith.
 
Last edited:
RHANDMJ said:
Big John Patton isn't Ornette Coleman. Sales potential for such a box is way, way below that of Ornette.

Patton released 8 records on Blue Note while under contract, 3 of which are Liberty era records, the rest are CD-era vault digs. There may be a case for those first 5 to be in a box, but very unlikely as there are gems (That Certain Feeling) along with pretty lounge stuff (Let Em Roll, Got A Groovy Thing Going) and grease (Along Came John, The Way I Feel - which is IMO better). The ones with Green might fit a mold for a set, but to me, they are pretty standard fare easy listening.

Patton really started to smoke it with Understanding and Accent on the Blues, but Liberty ear records tend to be dismissed by purists.

The reason so few Patton records are reissued is that there isn't a viable market. Music Matters did not do a single one.

The one that should be considered is Blue John. which sat in the vault for too long. IMO it is Patton's strongest BN date, with the under-served George Braith.
Click to expand...
If your not a vinyl purist I highly recommend the Mosaic Select Patton Cd Box if you run across it or can grab a rip from someone that has it.
Contains: Along Came John, The Way I Feel, and Oh Baby!,1963, 1964, and 1965, respectively. That Certain Feeling and Understanding, from 1968. Dm me if you need it.

1643591547936.png
 
RHANDMJ said:
Big John Patton isn't Ornette Coleman. Sales potential for such a box is way, way below that of Ornette.

Patton released 8 records on Blue Note while under contract, 3 of which are Liberty era records, the rest are CD-era vault digs. There may be a case for those first 5 to be in a box, but very unlikely as there are gems (That Certain Feeling) along with pretty lounge stuff (Let Em Roll, Got A Groovy Thing Going) and grease (Along Came John, The Way I Feel - which is IMO better). The ones with Green might fit a mold for a set, but to me, they are pretty standard fare easy listening.

Patton really started to smoke it with Understanding and Accent on the Blues, but Liberty era records tend to be dismissed by purists.

The reason so few Patton records are reissued is that there isn't a viable market. Music Matters did not do a single one.

The one that should be considered is Blue John. which sat in the vault for too long. IMO it is Patton's strongest BN date, with the under-served George Braith.
Click to expand...
yet some of the best mid-period BN covers...

im not sure the concept of viable markets even exists anymore, everything is marketable...put a fancy cover, a recognizable mastering engineer and music on vinyl and it sells...I mean really, a box set of Ornette Coleman's BN sides that will probably sell out on release...
 
bornard said:
yet some of the best mid-period BN covers...

im not sure the concept of viable markets even exists anymore, everything is marketable...put a fancy cover, a recognizable mastering engineer and music on vinyl and it sells...I mean really, a box set of Ornette Coleman's BN sides that will probably sell out on release...
Click to expand...
Agree. Valid points.

But, hardly does everything sell. I still see stores with left overs from last year RSD. And there are just tons of records from 5-6 years ago, or more, that fill the shelves at retail.

But in the FOMO market, you are right. Put KPG, or BG, or RKS in the grooves and you can splash a box set of The Chipmunks to audiophiles.

I love the Ornette BN box (although I have no need for the upcoming Contemporary box, which is nowhere near Ornette's true vision), but in all honesty, the only way they could sell this material is in a box. Empty Foxhole is not for everyone (most). New & Old Gospel is a decent Jackie McLean record, but not an essential. Stockholm can be tough for the rocking chair crowd to sit through. New York Is Now is a masterpiece, and it, along with Love Call, are probably the only ones which would have sold well enough as independent releases.

We are coming to the point where almost anything Blue Note will sell, though. 10 years ago, Music Matters couldn't give away Elvin Jones - Genesis, which is an amazing record. Today, it would sell based on the cover art and KPG alone.
 
RHANDMJ said:
Big John Patton isn't Ornette Coleman. Sales potential for such a box is way, way below that of Ornette.

Patton released 8 records on Blue Note while under contract, 3 of which are Liberty era records, the rest are CD-era vault digs. There may be a case for those first 5 to be in a box, but very unlikely as there are gems (That Certain Feeling) along with pretty lounge stuff (Let Em Roll, Got A Groovy Thing Going) and grease (Along Came John, The Way I Feel - which is IMO better). The ones with Green might fit a mold for a set, but to me, they are pretty standard fare easy listening.

Patton really started to smoke it with Understanding and Accent on the Blues, but Liberty era records tend to be dismissed by purists.

The reason so few Patton records are reissued is that there isn't a viable market. Music Matters did not do a single one.

The one that should be considered is Blue John. which sat in the vault for too long. IMO it is Patton's strongest BN date, with the under-served George Braith.
Click to expand...
I mean, I would buy a Big John Patton box over an Ornette Coleman box any day, haha. And there are a lot of artists that Music Matters didn't touch that Blue Note has featured in their Tone Poet and Classic/80th series. Did they ever do any Ornette Coleman?

RHANDMJ said:
We are coming to the point where almost anything Blue Note will sell, though. 10 years ago, Music Matters couldn't give away Elvin Jones - Genesis, which is an amazing record. Today, it would sell based on the cover art and KPG alone.
Click to expand...
This is why I don't think they'll stop working through their catalogue - they'll get to Patton eventually.
 
bornard said:
yet some of the best mid-period BN covers...

im not sure the concept of viable markets even exists anymore, everything is marketable...put a fancy cover, a recognizable mastering engineer and music on vinyl and it sells...I mean really, a box set of Ornette Coleman's BN sides that will probably sell out on release...
Click to expand...
I think the fact that we are discussing Blue Note plays a big part here as well.

There is such a fanbase for the label that I imagine anything they release will be a big seller. I have seen people online fork out crazy money for Blue Note releases only to follow up with a comment along the lines of "I cant wait to hear this album for the first time". That's a lot of faith to place in a label without even hearing the music first.

There was a time when suggesting an Ornette Coleman box would sell the way I assume this has/will would be laughable, so I wouldn't see any issues with them releasing a BJP with great sales. At the end of the day they already have a large swathe of people in the palm of their hands so it wouldn't be hard to market any of their back catalogue imo.
 
Ericj32 said:
I was on the fence about this Art Blakey and the Jazz Messengers "The Big Beat" BN classics album, but really glad I picked it up (thanks, PBC!). It's really fun. There's just so much momentum and the execution is so slick - the spotify stream definitely didn't do it justice.
Click to expand...
That’s good to hear, because I wasn’t super into it after several Spotify streams either. That, plus my recent bad luck with the Classic series (noisy pressings) caused me to pass. But I may roll the dice on it after reading your comment.
 
Poli
jfitzy said:
That’s good to hear, because I wasn’t super into it after several Spotify streams either. That, plus my recent bad luck with the Classic series (noisy pressings) caused me to pass. But I may roll the dice on it after reading your comment.
Click to expand...
Politely is one of the most iconic Blue Note and bop tracks, so worth grabbing for that alone, let alone the typical swingin style of Blaley's style.

Suggest using a reputable dealer for these so if you get a bum copy you can exchange it.

And streaming with a Hi res site,,I'm personally done with anything Spotify.
 
Last edited:
jfitzy said:
That’s good to hear, because I wasn’t super into it after several Spotify streams either. That, plus my recent bad luck with the Classic series (noisy pressings) caused me to pass. But I may roll the dice on it after reading your comment.
Click to expand...
This has been my issue with streaming versions of a few of these BN reissues of these albums, even in lossless/hi-res. Not sure if it is the mastering or just the recording technique Rudy used, but when I stream them I found the sounds stage for a few can feel very narrow. Not compressed, just not a lot of breathing space on recording. The Jackie McLean one is a prime example for me. The stream did not grab my attention but glad I picked it up because I am really loving it.
 
jamieanderson1968 said:
This has been my issue with streaming versions of a few of these BN reissues of these albums, even in lossless/hi-res. Not sure if it is the mastering or just the recording technique Rudy used, but when I stream them I found the sounds stage for a few can feel very narrow. Not compressed, just not a lot of breathing space on recording. The Jackie McLean one is a prime example for me. The stream did not grab my attention but glad I picked it up because I am really loving it.
Click to expand...
Narrow. Yes, that’s the perfect word. Yeah some of them just do not translate well in the streaming format so it’s sometimes hard to decide what to buy and what to pass on.
 
JohnnyCashFan said:
Poli

Politely is one of the most iconic Blue Note and bop tracks, so worth grabbing for that alone, let alone the typical swingin style of Blaley's style.

Suggest using a repuable dealer for these so if you get a bum copy you can exchange it.
Click to expand...
For sure. I’ve started purchasing these from Amazon because of the frequent pressing issues. I really HATE buying from them over my local stores, but it’s just been such a hassle.

I bough Home Cookin’ recently and it needed a replacement. I sent in the request for a replacement and the next day I have it in my hands. It’s hard to beat that.
 
jamieanderson1968 said:
This has been my issue with streaming versions of a few of these BN reissues of these albums, even in lossless/hi-res. Not sure if it is the mastering or just the recording technique Rudy used, but when I stream them I found the sounds stage for a few can feel very narrow. Not compressed, just not a lot of breathing space on recording. The Jackie McLean one is a prime example for me. The stream did not grab my attention but glad I picked it up because I am really loving it.
Click to expand...
Depends. If you are streaming the CD level file or the RVG remastered 24/44 files, they are narrow. RVG mastered them that way on purpose. On the other hand, the 24/192 files are not narrow at all, in fact they are pretty much straight cuts of the master tape. They do need VOLUME though, as they are transferred without any limiting.
 
Man, all this talk about the Ornette boxset is giving me a ton of FOMO, but I dont think I'll pull the trigger. As much as I would like to own Golden Circle and New York is Now, I dont think I can justify buying the other records before albums such as This is Our Music or Song X, which I dont own yet. Im sure it is a fantastic set, and Im super jealous of those who own it, but one has to prioritize when money and storage space are low.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top