The Dark Side; Digital audio equipment recommendations and setup.

[HuddieLedbetter]

1. No I wouldn’t go that way. I agree it’s bundling obsolesce. Is look to separate them out to two, or preferably 3, boxes.

2. Roon is immense. It’s basically a whole ecosystem for your digital music. You’ll have a core/server which controls everything (I use a little intel NUC with roons own server os ROCK) and can have various endpoints around the house (from smart speakers to boxes attached to hifi etc). Where is is very clever is that it’s app is unbelievably well designed and intuitive to use and it allows you to add files from qobuz and/or tidal to your library so making erasing the distinction between the streaming digital and the file digital in your collection.

3. Dunno.

4. By roof do you mean like a attic room away from your main system? If I’m understanding that right will you be wanting two zones where different music could potentially be streamed at the same time by different people? If so you will need a different end point in each room talking to your core. You could have a hifi steamer box attached to your amplifier either through a standalone DAC or a DAC built into either the amp or the steamer. You could then have a smart speaker or even another streaming box attached to a second set up in the other zone, there are so many potential end points with Roon.

Thanks. 1) agreed - thanks. Then I guess I would be building a NUC and adding a DAC

2) building a NUC seems relatively straight forward though I don't think I have the chutzpah to try to go Pi. I am somewhat computer literate, but that feels intimidating

4).it sounds like I keep my current amp to power the roof, connect the most cost effective streaming option possible that would support Room as an endpoint, use Roon as the common interface and treat the LR as a separate stack?

Did I get that right?

 

[HuddieLedbetter]

Thanks. 1) agreed - thanks. Then I guess I would be building a NUC and adding a DAC

2) building a NUC seems relatively straight forward though I don't think I have the chutzpah to try to go Pi. I am somewhat computer literate, but that feels intimidating

4).it sounds like I keep my current amp to power the roof, connect the most cost effective streaming option possible that would support Room as an endpoint, use Roon as the common interface and treat the LR as a separate stack?

Did I get that right?

Oh... the 2nd area is an outdoor roof deck with limited power options (city apartment, roof) and with 2 kids now we are only going to be able to stay here for another couple years...

 

[Joe Mac]

Thanks. 1) agreed - thanks. Then I guess I would be building a NUC and adding a DAC

2) building a NUC seems relatively straight forward though I don't think I have the chutzpah to try to go Pi. I am somewhat computer literate, but that feels intimidating

4).it sounds like I keep my current amp to power the roof, connect the most cost effective streaming option possible that would support Room as an endpoint, use Roon as the common interface and treat the LR as a separate stack?

Did I get that right?

Yeah the NUC is a really straightforward machine to build and you can connect it to your DAC via USB. The Roon instructions are really good on their site, I just followed them step by step.

The pi is actually easier again if you want to use it a Roon endpoint for your loft. The hifiberry dac+ pro literally clips onto the pi and you flash the Roon endpoint software onto a micro sd card. This is the whole bundle of what you’d need. The Roon endpoint software for pi doesn’t support WiFi though so it will need an Ethernet connection nearby. It will just connect to the amp in the roof with RCA cables. Have a look how easy it is with this video

 

[HuddieLedbetter]

Yeah the NUC is a really straightforward machine to build and you can connect it to your DAC via USB. The Roon instructions are really good on their site, I just followed them step by step.

The pi is actually easier again if you want to use it a Roon endpoint for your loft. The hifiberry dac+ pro literally clips onto the pi and you flash the Roon endpoint software onto a micro sd card. This is the whole bundle of what you’d need. The Roon endpoint software for pi doesn’t support WiFi though so it will need an Ethernet connection nearby. It will just connect to the amp in the roof with RCA cables. Have a look how easy it is with this video

Wait. I realize I'm late to this... But is this whole set up less than $200?

 

[Joe Mac]

The NUC/RAM/SSD for os/HDD for storage cost me about €400/500. Software was free but below.
The pi bundle as an endpoint cost me €100ish. Software is free but below.
Lifetime licence for Roon was €500. Yearly is €100 a year.
Then you need to factor in your DAC to sit between the NUC and your current Living Room system.

 

[HuddieLedbetter]

The NUC/RAM/SSD for os/HDD for storage cost me about €400/500. Software was free but below.
The pi bundle as an endpoint cost me €100ish. Software is free but below.
Lifetime licence for Roon was €500. Yearly is €100 a year.
Then you need to factor in your DAC to sit between the NUC and your current Living Room system.

That makes more sense. Thank you

 

[wooha]

It must be a day for SOtMs as mine has mysteriously stopped working today. Not terribly happy about that.

On a more positive note, I'm starting the business of sorting my next house and with that, I'm starting to look at my next set of test equipment. This evening, I'm a very long way into the dark side indeed.

View attachment 12367

This should be topped by my SOtM but the Lindemann is standing in nicely. This is a Roon driven combo of the aforementioned Lindemann Limetree Bridge streaming transport running into a Chord Electronics MScaler and Hugo TT2. It is, frankly ridiculous in technical terms. The original CD DAC, the Philips TDA1451, used 28 tapped output filters to generate something approaching an analogue soundwave. The TT2 uses... a million to do the same thing. It's got a Xilinx field programmable gate array with custom code to achieve this. In this case, the signal it is receiving has been through the Mscaler which takes a 16/44,1 input and uses another million tap, time aligned processing system to turn it into a sprightly 24/705.6. Considering the sheer amount of processing horsepower at work, the most incredible thing is how natural it sounds. It is, by some margin, the best digital front end I've ever used.

View attachment 12369

I had an opportunity to listen to the Hugo TT2 + MScaler combo this weekend. Words cannot describe... (but I will attempt, briefly)

I've never heard music so detailed, so lush. My ears aren't the most well-traveled in the audiophile world, but this is simply the best home audio experience I've come across, analog or digital, and by a wide margin.

 

[MikeH]

I had an opportunity to listen to the Hugo TT2 + MScaler combo this weekend. Words cannot describe... (but I will attempt, briefly)

I've never heard music so detailed, so lush. My ears aren't the most well-traveled in the audiophile world, but this is simply the best home audio experience I've come across, analog or digital, and by a wide margin.

Wish I could afford the price tag on the Hugo...

 

[apassant]

The pi is actually easier again if you want to use it a Roon endpoint for your loft. The hifiberry dac+ pro literally clips onto the pi and you flash the Roon endpoint software onto a micro sd card. This is the whole bundle of what you’d need. The Roon endpoint software for pi doesn’t support WiFi though so it will need an Ethernet connection nearby. It will just connect to the amp in the roof with RCA cables. Have a look how easy it is with this video

Do you know if it makes any difference when using the Roon endpoint software on a Pi vs another OS supporting Roon endpoint? I've tried it recently on trial with JustBoom on a Pi (with the Digi HAT board) and it worked as expected (w/ wifi support too). Did I miss something not using the Roon software though?

 

[Joe Mac]

Do you know if it makes any difference when using the Roon endpoint software on a Pi vs another OS supporting Roon endpoint? I've tried it recently on trial with JustBoom on a Pi (with the Digi HAT board) and it worked as expected (w/ wifi support too). Did I miss something not using the Roon software though?

Are you using a HiFiBerry HAT because it’s HiFIBerry themselves, rather than the pi, that is Roon Ready and there are different Roon end point softwares for pi that solely work with each of their HATs.

I suppose the question is what is Roon using to connect to JustBoom. If it is airplay you are limited by airplay to 16/44. Roon and most HATs are capable of more than that.

Another way, that is more fiddly, is to run the pi with diet pi and install the Roon endpoint software on that. I actually had mine running this way before I upgraded because the bare Roon endpoint software for HiFiBerry didn’t support WiFi and diet pi does. This does allow full 24/196 digital playback.

 

[apassant]

Are you using a HiFiBerry HAT because it’s HiFIBerry themselves, rather than the pi, that is Roon Ready and there are different Roon end point softwares for pi that solely work with each of their HATs.

I suppose the question is what is Roon using to connect to JustBoom. If it is airplay you are limited by airplay to 16/44. Roon and most HATs are capable of more than that.

I have no idea what Roon is using here tbh. I've bought the JustBoom HAT to have a simple Pi-based solution connected to my DAC (actually I've updated from JustBoom OS to moode since), and tried it as a Roon endpoint (but didn't want to reset the software). IIRC, I've used the standard Linux build to install Roon bridge on the Pi. So that should be similar to what you describe below (as I need Wifi in any case)?

Another way, that is more fiddly, is to run the pi with diet pi and install the Roon endpoint software on that. I actually had mine running this way before I upgraded because the bare Roon endpoint software for HiFiBerry didn’t support WiFi and diet pi does. This does allow full 24/196 digital playback.

 

[Joe Mac]

I have no idea what Roon is using here tbh. I've bought the JustBoom HAT to have a simple Pi-based solution connected to my DAC (actually I've updated from JustBoom OS to moode since), and tried it as a Roon endpoint (but didn't want to reset the software). IIRC, I've used the standard Linux build to install Roon bridge on the Pi. So that should be similar to what you describe below (as I need Wifi in any case)?

Ill be honest I just followed this guide to the letter haha!

Diet Pi Installation Guides for Roon Extensions

If anyone is interested, I have created a walk through guide for Diet Pi which: Installs Roon Extension Manager - an easy to use way to install and managed community developed Roon extension Installs Roon Web Controller - a responsive web remote for Roon Installs and configures the Chromium...

community.roonlabs.com

you can check your signal path in Roon on your control device by hitting that little purple light next to the artist/song information.

 

[Ed Selley]

I've never heard music so detailed, so lush. My ears aren't the most well-traveled in the audiophile world, but this is simply the best home audio experience I've come across, analog or digital, and by a wide margin.

It's quite the thing to live with. I have some friends who have not traditionally been big fans of Chord who have found themselves awkwardly listening to it and recalibrating their priorities. It looks like a Dr.Who prop but it certainly delivers.

 

[displayname]

I got to spend some time with a few DAC/tube/cable combos in a high end system this weekend, so I wanted to share my latest lessons with everyone here.

I was helping a friend of mine change out the motherboard in his Musical Paradise MP-D2 MKIII DAC. This is a tube DAC, which already makes it a bit unique, but what's more interesting in my opinion is how modular the entire unit is. It's set up to be able to roll tubes, DAC chips, and capacitors. They have also done a few USB board upgrades over the years as well, which only requires a few screws and plugging in the new board to upgrade.

Every time I've heard the MK1 (which my friend has had) I've enjoyed it, and the MK3 seems like it will be just as quality, if not better once it's broken in. It may not be the end all in detail, but we also haven't tried either version with the highest end DAC chips. I have been thinking about which way I would go if/when I upgrade the digital end, and the price point, flexibility and sound quality on this DAC has it as a short list option if I was shopping today. It just does an amazing job of bringing out space for the price point.

While I was there we also used his LKS Audio DA004 DAC, which has been his most frequent daily driver. My friend is a seasoned cable swapper, and his system very clearly shows the qualities each cable in the system brings to the table. Highly transparent. We've swapped several coax and BNC cables before, be he only just recently started playing with the IS2 output from his Jays Audio transport. Honestly, this cable type needs to catch on. I was stunned how much more depth the sound had coming from the IS2 using a basic freebie HDMI cable. And this was compared to very well regarded coax and BNC cables. This was the big surprise for me. If you're going to consider new digital gear, I wouldn't make it a deal breaker by any means. But if you end up with IS2 input/outputs, I would suggest you try them. You might be surprised.

 

[Slimwhit33]

So I bit the bullet and ordered an Auralic Vega G1 along with some Nordost Blue Heaven LS Balanced Interconnects. Upscale Audio even threw in a free 2019 iPad! Looking forward to getting everything set up. Hopefully I'll have it for the weekend. Anyone have any experience with the VEGA G1?

 

[Ed Selley]

So I bit the bullet and ordered an Auralic Vega G1 along with some Nordost Blue Heaven LS Balanced Interconnects. Upscale Audio even threw in a free 2019 iPad! Looking forward to getting everything set up. Hopefully I'll have it for the weekend. Anyone have any experience with the VEGA G1?

Yep. It's a fine sounding device that really comes alive as a Roon endpoint.

 

[displayname]

So I bit the bullet and ordered an Auralic Vega G1 along with some Nordost Blue Heaven LS Balanced Interconnects. Upscale Audio even threw in a free 2019 iPad! Looking forward to getting everything set up. Hopefully I'll have it for the weekend. Anyone have any experience with the VEGA G1?

Really good choice!

 

[NateOEB]

I was at a friend's who had Roon and it was amazing. Does anyone know if they run deals on the service for Black Friday, or if there's a way to reduce the cost of a one year or lifetime membership?

 

[apassant]

I was at a friend's who had Roon and it was amazing. Does anyone know if they run deals on the service for Black Friday, or if there's a way to reduce the cost of a one year or lifetime membership?

I was looking at the same info re. Black Friday and the only thing I found is that message from their COO (even though it's 3 years old)

Plans for Roon Sale Again?

We don’t plan on doing any more “X% off” discounts. Don’t hold me to this, but it is not in our plans. Not for Christmas, not for Black Friday, etc… We probably will never discount a lifetime membership ever again – it just doesn’t make sense for us. Sorry if you missed out… that’s just how the...

community.roonlabs.com

I'm still hoping for hardware deals to build a cheap Roon Core (NUC, etc.) and hope to be lucky on Amazon.

 

[Joe Mac]

I was looking at the same info re. Black Friday and the only thing I found is that message from their COO (even though it's 3 years old)

Plans for Roon Sale Again?

We don’t plan on doing any more “X% off” discounts. Don’t hold me to this, but it is not in our plans. Not for Christmas, not for Black Friday, etc… We probably will never discount a lifetime membership ever again – it just doesn’t make sense for us. Sorry if you missed out… that’s just how the...

community.roonlabs.com

I'm still hoping for hardware deals to build a cheap Roon Core (NUC, etc.) and hope to be lucky on Amazon.

With the core I got lucky with an amazon marketplace deal on a damaged box NUC for one of the previous years models, I was quite patient waiting for that so keep an eye out those type of deals do come up. I think memory is pretty cheap at the moment so you should get the ssd, ram and hdd for storage for a fair price.