The N&G Listening Club V1 - Archive only

[Dtknuckles]

It’s obvious that Wales has more of a soul/funk background. What is surprising is that on those soul workouts Jerry Can hang. Yes the Dead can get funky but it’s usually got a bit of innocence or bounce to it (Franklin’s Tower). It never has the edge or urgency that is on this album.

There are other times on the album where you can hear Jerry’s personality, but it’s less obvious because he’s not surrounded by his typical musical friends. It funny how context can brings out differences in what he plays or what we pay attention to. This really highlights how musical Jerry & the Dead were. I think it often get overshadowed by the culture baggage that surrounds them and their fan base. It's strange because usually the Musician is a stand in for their fan base because they identify with certain aspects of their persona, it seems to be somewhat switched aroudn in the case of the Dead. They take on all sorts of characteristics of their fan base.

As for the branding of Morning in Marin as noise. I actually find that funny. There is a lot more out there that is way more “noisy”. I find it pretty mild on the adventurous spectrum. I get the most people listen to music that is primarily I-IV-V chords, everybody stays in key, and plays in way that is congruent with each other. But doesn’t that get boring after a while. Your effectively cutting out 50% of the tools musicians have to make music interesting.

It’s funny @Dead C mentions Medeski, because Wales sound a lot like him on Morning in Marin. The fast melody lines and intense swirls of organ at points. It part of the reason I mentioned Surrender to the Air. I personally love Marin and is a highlight of listening to the album.

 

[Waitressboy]

You're likely barking up the wrong tree here. Personally, I don't feel like I would tactlessly trash an album that someone suggested in this listening club like that, just out of respect for the person offering to share with the group -- in fact, I'm even measuring my response to it right now -- but based on who posted it, I'm not entirely surprised that they didn't connect to it. That "evaluation" just sounded ignorant to me. Not even being aware of the Grateful Dead speaks volumes on its own. Wondering if 5 dudes are an "orchestra" because there's a single horn and it's not a straght ahead dance pop album or some tragic Lifetime movie of the week heroine crying into the belly of the acoustic guitar she got for her sweet 16... let's just say I don't think this is the Sun Ra demographic.

Sorry for not answering yesterday, it was a crazy day (and the forum is not working 100% right in my iPad so that doesn't help either).
So, yeah, let me try to be clear about a couple of things because English is not my first language and of course shit always gets lost in translation:

-I am the first person to tell you that I don't get jazz and its different styles. Call it Chet Baker or Sun Ra, it's a genre that I am probably not smart/sensible/educated enough to appreciate. When Voldemort Me Please released that album of Art Ensemble Of Chicago, I saw the mock up and thought it was really beatiful, and I like experimental shit so why not give it a try on Spotify. And, I don't know, it sounds like just random notes playing just because.
-I know who Grateful Dead are, by name. Never ever listened to a song by them. There is an impressive lists of artists I know by name and never listened to them.
-My review was not trying to be trashing or just giving bad vibes. I admit the image was a little too much (but that first song, I seriously had no idea what was going on). What I like about this place is that we can listen so many differengenres and styles and not all of us will like the same stuff. I really disliked the first track on Spotify (that wasn't even on the album, shame on you Spotify!), but I was ok with the rest of it.
-You called me ignorant. Fuck yes, I am completely ignorant about this. I do think that still I can say that I dislike a song, even if I don't get it. Should I be more educated in order to appreciate it better? Sure. I mean, if I get my turn to choose the album is going to be Spiceworld.
(No, not really)
(Well, maybe yes)
-Natalie Imbruglia has an amazing bunch of albums and is one of the most underrated singers in the world. And her eyes are absolutely gorgeous.

I also want to apologize if my post offended anybody, it was never my intention, it was just an opinion about a music I don't understand.

 

[BjorgenFjorgen]

I listened to Day of The Dead today, second longest album I've ever sat through, and definitely the most cohesive/attention holding of any comparable in length. It was really good, I like how it starts out exactly how you would expect it, and slowly unhinges until you make it totally out into the deep end, then the last couple of songs reel you back in. Truckin' is the only track I recognized the name of (Haven't heard too much Dead), and I've never heard of Marijuana Deathsquads, but they did a hell of a version of it. Also interesting was at one stage early on I was suddenly struck by the thought that Bill Callahan would fit really well on this, then by the time I got near the end, up he came (Perhaps I subconsciously noticed the name earlier skimming the list?). Got me even more keen for my third listen of Hooteroll? in the correct order this time.

Buddy, welcome.

 

[Bohnjaggs]

I've chosen the next participant and they'll have the weekend to think about their selection... The album should be announced on Monday.

 

[Dead C]

Sorry for not answering yesterday, it was a crazy day (and the forum is not working 100% right in my iPad so that doesn't help either).
So, yeah, let me try to be clear about a couple of things because English is not my first language and of course shit always gets lost in translation:

-I am the first person to tell you that I don't get jazz and its different styles. Call it Chet Baker or Sun Ra, it's a genre that I am probably not smart/sensible/educated enough to appreciate. When Voldemort Me Please released that album of Art Ensemble Of Chicago, I saw the mock up and thought it was really beatiful, and I like experimental shit so why not give it a try on Spotify. And, I don't know, it sounds like just random notes playing just because.
-I know who Grateful Dead are, by name. Never ever listened to a song by them. There is an impressive lists of artists I know by name and never listened to them.
-My review was not trying to be trashing or just giving bad vibes. I admit the image was a little too much (but that first song, I seriously had no idea what was going on). What I like about this place is that we can listen so many differengenres and styles and not all of us will like the same stuff. I really disliked the first track on Spotify (that wasn't even on the album, shame on you Spotify!), but I was ok with the rest of it.
-You called me ignorant. Fuck yes, I am completely ignorant about this. I do think that still I can say that I dislike a song, even if I don't get it. Should I be more educated in order to appreciate it better? Sure. I mean, if I get my turn to choose the album is going to be Spiceworld.
(No, not really)
(Well, maybe yes)
-Natalie Imbruglia has an amazing bunch of albums and is one of the most underrated singers in the world. And her eyes are absolutely gorgeous.

I also want to apologize if my post offended anybody, it was never my intention, it was just an opinion about a music I don't understand.

I like you already and know from the old forum that we just have completely different tastes in music. Also, because I know that language differences and tone on the internet translate poorly, if I did use the work "ignorant" -- was that me? -- then I would have literally meant that you are "ignorant" to the genre and context, not that you are an ignorant person in general or that your opinion doesn't matter. Jazz sounds like noise to you in general, so this sounds like noise. Makes sense. That's an important distinction to make and context to have. If I didn't like Imbruglia's voice (I like it fine, by the way) and someone asked me my opinion about one of her albums, I'd probably say something negative about it. I'm, admittedly, completely ignorant to her catalog. If someone asked you your opinion about a particular album, you have more context and knowledge to draw from to comment on its place in the greater discography.

My response regarding your post was to say that, if you're not a fan of Hooteroll?, suggesting Sun Ra is probably a bad move, since he gets even more out there and crazy. That Art Ensemble record is nuts, too. Not surprised that you didn't connect to it. You've really got to be into some of that chaos to connect to some of it. It's not an easily accessible release. It's a specific genre within jazz. In general though, if there's something on here that I'm not into, I'll explain why and try to avoid hurling phrases like "shit" and "disaster" at them, because a lot of people are more sensitive on this board and I, myself, can be a little tactless at times, without even realizing it.

 

[syngts]

It's hard to pick one album and I've batted a number of ideas around. None are necessarily better than any other, but they're all very different. At this moment, I feel as if the one I've chosen is as good as any. Hopefully, it serves its purpose.

The album that I've selected in HOOTEROLL?, a 1971 collaboration between keyboardist, Howard Wales and Jerry Garcia.

The year prior to this release, Wales appeared on the Grateful Dead tracks "Candyman," "Brokedown Palace," and "Truckin'" on their American Beauty LP. 1970 also brought The Music Of El Topo, a funky reimagining of Alejandro Jodorowsky compositions from his film that launched the midnight movie phenomenon. That album was released by the project Shades Of Joy, which featured both Wales and a horn section that included Martin Fierro (Quicksilver Messenger Service), who would go on to lend his sax and flute to the HOOTEROLL? recordings, and later play alongside Garcia in the group Legion Of Mary.

The collaborations between Wales and Garcia began in 1970 during free-form improv nights at the historic San Francisco jazz club Keystone Korner, Joining them both during those session and on HOOTEROLL? was bassist, John Kahn, who would go on to become Jerry‘s primary musical cohort outside of the Dead. Kahn was involved in just about every solo venture that the legendary guitarist took, including projects like the bluegrass supergroup Old & In the Way and Legion of Mary; Garcia‘s collaboration with organist Merl Saunders. Khan is also widely blamed for Jerry's issues with heroin, himself overdosing on junk less than a year after Garcia passed away from a fatal heart attack in a rehabilitation center. So... for multiple reasons, this time period was a major turning point in Jerry's life, as it pertained to directions that his life would take independent of his work within the Grateful Dead.

I chose HOOTEROLL? for a couple of reasons, but a major factor is that it's so often overlooked. This isn't surprising, considering that Jerry's first solo effort, Garcia, came out the very same year and overshadowed it with a powerhouse of future Dead favorites like "Sugaree," "Deal," "Birdsong," "The Wheel," and "To Lay Me Down," among others. As for HOOTEROLL?, it's a completely different animal. I posted a little background info, but, beyond that, I'd prefer to err on the side of saying less when it comes to the actual sound and content on this one. In fact, I'd prefer it if there was a way for everyone to simply hear this album for the first time without ever knowing that Garcia's name was even attached to it. I've played this record for Dead fans who immediately respond to it, yet are genuinely surprised when I reveal who is behind it. They don't even recognize his guitar work, until made aware of it. Meanwhile, I expect those who have no experience with the Dead, at all, and especially those who may believe that they dislike Jerry's work, to be fairly surprised by this project. It's a funky one, ya'lls, but there's also variety from one song to the next. If you do take the opportunity to check this out, then you'll see what I'm referring to.


Availability / Variations

I've checked and this should be an easy enough one to locate. I'm sure that they have it on YouTube and I know that it's on Spotify, if nothing else. Depending on what source you use for this, you may get different results. The original album had only 7 songs on it, while the 1987 reissue removed the song "A Trip To What Next," replacing it with a variation titled "Evening In Marin" at the end, tacked on the song "Morning In Marin" to the beginning, and completely mixed up the entire sequencing. The Spotify version, essentially, seems to be the 2010 reissue titled HOOTEROLL? + 2, and has 11 tracks on it, arbitrarily inserting "A Trip To What Next" back into the middle of the deck and adding on 2 live songs with vocals ("She Once Lived Here" and "Sweet Cocaine"), hence the "+2" bit in the title. The only difference seems to be that Spotify has "Sweet Cocaine" renamed as "Blues Encore." Although the order of the songs is completely flipped inside out, I still like this one and how it pushes "Da Birg Song" (the one song that Jerry co-wrote) up toward the beginning, since it closed out the original version, leaving it more likely to be ignored if you didn't make it that far. Plus, there is more music on it, which is an obvious bonus. That being said, bonuses work for me, since I'm already a fan. I was introduced to it as the original 7 track album that starts with "Southside Strut" and has Howard Wales name listed first on the cover. I always saw this as more of a Howard Wales album -- he wrote all of the songs, independently, aside from 2 -- but the the more recent releases move Jerry's name before his and frontload it with songs that may highlight his sound more, in an obvious attempt to capitalize off of his more prominent name. If you really care, maybe the OG is the way to go, because it's more focused and concise presentation of their original vision; then, you can just go back and listen to "Morning In Marin" as a bonus. But... no matter which version you find, I'm hoping it will be just as effective.

Let me know what you think

OH! And the cover art is by Mati Klarwein, who supplied iconic artwork for such albums as Bitches Brew, Live Evil, Santana's Abraxas, and This Is Madness by The Last Poets.


EDIT:
I updated and adjusted the section now headed with "Availability / Variations," adding a little more information, since I do believe that the album plays slightly different depending on which version you come across.

So here's my take on this:

This album is a time capsule. It's more a 30-minute TV variety special than an album, and I like to think Wales and Garcia had a sort of witty irony about them while writing this. The programme of the show follows.

You basically have something in the vein of 2001: A Space Odyssey. A trip to What Next is the first act, where everything comes to life, the universe has just expanded enough so that it became transparent, the people started watching sunsets with their tribes, all kinds of starts at different scales. Up from the Desert is the moment of enlightenment. It speaks of hope and a future. It sounds very Floyd-esque and my first thought was to check what year this came out. 71. This is Meddle time, but not quite Dark Side of the Moon time, that's 2 years later. I'm pretty sure Gilmour and Waters either did or would have loved this song. The third act (DC-502) makes me think of a technological utopia from an old SF novel; the pace is in a way electricky. The season finale comes with One A.M. Approach. The human being discovers the everything. The God that is at the middle of everything. A gigantic black monolith illuminated in a dark void. And his emotions go from pure amazement and dumbfoundedness to a sliver of fright, and finally a feeling of infinite smallness in the grand scheme of things.

Then the trip ends. He cannot handle it. They return to the motives of South Side Strut, a return to simple normality and conformity. A sort of The Tonight Show's musical guests opening the evening and then making a return after the curtain comes down. Something to sweeten the bitter pill it envelops. The last song is the hopeful theme song that plays during the credits and leaves you with reassurance that everything is good in the world, there's nothing to worry about, the show will always be here.

I honestly loved it. I really believe this was a concept album they intended. I didn't inform myself about this, but I'm fine just living within this reality. It doesn't make sense the sequencing was shuffled around so much, since it seems it is an necessary glue to hold these tracks together. I'm also pretty sure, as with a lot of music coming from that age, it's nothing more than the story of an acid trip.

Excellent choice!

 

[Captainfog]

I like you already and know from the old forum that we just have completely different tastes in music. Also, because I know that language differences and tone on the internet translate poorly, if I did use the work "ignorant" -- was that me? -- then I would have literally meant that you are "ignorant" to the genre and context, not that you are an ignorant person in general or that your opinion doesn't matter. Jazz sounds like noise to you in general, so this sounds like noise. Makes sense. That's an important distinction to make and context to have. If I didn't like Imbruglia's voice (I like it fine, by the way) and someone asked me my opinion about one of her albums, I'd probably say something negative about it. I'm, admittedly, completely ignorant to her catalog. If someone asked you your opinion about a particular album, you have more context and knowledge to draw from to comment on its place in the greater discography.

My response regarding your post was to say that, if you're not a fan of Hooteroll?, suggesting Sun Ra is probably a bad move, since he gets even more out there and crazy. That Art Ensemble record is nuts, too. Not surprised that you didn't connect to it. You've really got to be into some of that chaos to connect to some of it. It's not an easily accessible release. It's a specific genre within jazz. In general though, if there's something on here that I'm not into, I'll explain why and try to avoid hurling phrases like "shit" and "disaster" at them, because a lot of people are more sensitive on this board and I, myself, can be a little tactless at times, without even realizing it.

The Art Ensemble record is bordering on the unlistenable. I quite like it for it's sheer oddness and the challenge it presents to my ears.

 

[Dead C]

The Art Ensemble record is bordering on the unlistenable. I quite like it for it's sheer oddness and the challenge it presents to my ears.

It's a really odd choice for them to go with that. I'm probably horrible for this thread, since I keep sidetracking the conversation in other directions, but have you ever heard Les Stances A Sophie? That's the album I kept asking VMP to repress, until someone else eventually did it. It's the album that might have actually gotten some people into them

If not, check this out

 

[Waitressboy]

I like you already and know from the old forum that we just have completely different tastes in music. Also, because I know that language differences and tone on the internet translate poorly, if I did use the work "ignorant" -- was that me? -- then I would have literally meant that you are "ignorant" to the genre and context, not that you are an ignorant person in general or that your opinion doesn't matter. Jazz sounds like noise to you in general, so this sounds like noise. Makes sense. That's an important distinction to make and context to have. If I didn't like Imbruglia's voice (I like it fine, by the way) and someone asked me my opinion about one of her albums, I'd probably say something negative about it. I'm, admittedly, completely ignorant to her catalog. If someone asked you your opinion about a particular album, you have more context and knowledge to draw from to comment on its place in the greater discography.

My response regarding your post was to say that, if you're not a fan of Hooteroll?, suggesting Sun Ra is probably a bad move, since he gets even more out there and crazy. That Art Ensemble record is nuts, too. Not surprised that you didn't connect to it. You've really got to be into some of that chaos to connect to some of it. It's not an easily accessible release. It's a specific genre within jazz. In general though, if there's something on here that I'm not into, I'll explain why and try to avoid hurling phrases like "shit" and "disaster" at them, because a lot of people are more sensitive on this board and I, myself, can be a little tactless at times, without even realizing it.

Yes, when I was using the word "ignorant" was in that context, in not knowing enough about some certain topics. And isn't it great being an ignorant? Because, seriously, there's a whole world of new things to discover and understand and appreciate out there. I am a complete ignorant about jazz, and I think it sounds like shit to my ears, but hopefully that will change and I'll find the beauty in it. Not now, because I'm not mentally and culturally ready yet for it, but as Tori Amos says: it will all find its way in time.

But I still think it's funny that I enjoy Scott Walker or Diamanda Galás' albums very much, but that first track was a nightmare for me.

 

[Captainfog]

It's a really odd choice for them to go with that. I'm probably horrible for this thread, since I keep sidetracking the conversation in other directions, but have you ever heard Les Stances A Sophie? That's the album I kept asking VMP to repress, until someone else eventually did it. It's the album that might have actually gotten some people into them

If not, check this out

That's a great tune.

 

[Waitressboy]

It's a really odd choice for them to go with that. I'm probably horrible for this thread, since I keep sidetracking the conversation in other directions, but have you ever heard Les Stances A Sophie? That's the album I kept asking VMP to repress, until someone else eventually did it. It's the album that might have actually gotten some people into them

If not, check this out

I liked that song. Why did they released that ball of noise instead of those? This is cool.

 

[Dead C]

That's a great tune.

I liked that song. Why did they released that ball of noise instead of those? This is cool.

Who knows why they do anything? This album finally got reissued, too, so I have no idea why they didn't try and, at the very least, shoot for a variant. They released the other album instead, which, admittedly, is a "ball of noise." Maybe they did try. I mean, some people like balls of noise, but I think it's pretty clear which the better album would have been, at least for the community they had. I can get into some of their spaced out material, but even I didn't pick up the other LP or feel it was essential for me -- I was also waiting for it to drop to $10, because I, correctly, didn't expect it to sell. Les Stances a Sophie is something a lot more people would have jumped on.

 

[Dead C]

Yes, when I was using the word "ignorant" was in that context, in not knowing enough about some certain topics. And isn't it great being an ignorant? Because, seriously, there's a whole world of new things to discover and understand and appreciate out there. I am a complete ignorant about jazz, and I think it sounds like shit to my ears, but hopefully that will change and I'll find the beauty in it. Not now, because I'm not mentally and culturally ready yet for it, but as Tori Amos says: it will all find its way in time.

But I still think it's funny that I enjoy Scott Walker or Diamanda Galás' albums very much, but that first track was a nightmare for me.

Yeah. It will find a way or it won't. And maybe you never like jazz. And, if you don't, it doesn't even matter. It's not better or worse than anything else, or even more "cultured" or superior. It's not like you don't have a full life filled with other things you enjoy, because you're not particularly keen on one specific genre. It's just another sound like a different food. A different "taste." I'm not eating pickled herring anytime soon.

 

[Dead C]

Hey @Captainfog, now that the site has a twitter, what are your thoughts on posting Hooteroll? on there / inviting followers to link in here to discuss the corresponding listening club album each week?

 

[Captainfog]

Hey @Captainfog, now that the site has a twitter, what are your thoughts on posting Hooteroll? on there / inviting followers to link in here to discuss the corresponding listening club album each week?

Yeah, I'm definitely up for highlighting forum things like the listening club.

 

[Mr Moore]

Would it make more sense to notify them a week early and give them more time? Would that have any effect on the decision-making process? Let me know.

Yes! I wouldn't mind to put myself on your list for some time down the line but, I'm very conscious that I tend to enjoy music on a very visceral level. I don't really analyse it too much beyond the point of knowing what I enjoy and if I was going to recommend a listening experience to a bunch of music lovers, I'd like the time to think about and explain why I love it too. I'm not confident I could do this in a couple of days.

 

[Bohnjaggs]

Yes! I wouldn't mind to put myself on your list for some time down the line but, I'm very conscious that I tend to enjoy music on a very visceral level. I don't really analyse it too much beyond the point of knowing what I enjoy and if I was going to recommend a listening experience to a bunch of music lovers, I'd like the time to think about and explain why I love it too. I'm not confident I could do this in a couple of days.

Add your name to the list and we'll figure it out when it happens...

 

[Dead C]

Finished the first listen and it was great!
Gonna listen again tomorrow

YESSS!

 

[BoilerRhapsody]

So here's my take on this:

This album is a time capsule. It's more a 30-minute TV variety special than an album, and I like to think Wales and Garcia had a sort of witty irony about them while writing this. The programme of the show follows.

You basically have something in the vein of 2001: A Space Odyssey. A trip to What Next is the first act, where everything comes to life, the universe has just expanded enough so that it became transparent, the people started watching sunsets with their tribes, all kinds of starts at different scales. Up from the Desert is the moment of enlightenment. It speaks of hope and a future. It sounds very Floyd-esque and my first thought was to check what year this came out. 71. This is Meddle time, but not quite Dark Side of the Moon time, that's 2 years later. I'm pretty sure Gilmour and Waters either did or would have loved this song. The third act (DC-502) makes me think of a technological utopia from an old SF novel; the pace is in a way electricky. The season finale comes with One A.M. Approach. The human being discovers the everything. The God that is at the middle of everything. A gigantic black monolith illuminated in a dark void. And his emotions go from pure amazement and dumbfoundedness to a sliver of fright, and finally a feeling of infinite smallness in the grand scheme of things.

Then the trip ends. He cannot handle it. They return to the motives of South Side Strut, a return to simple normality and conformity. A sort of The Tonight Show's musical guests opening the evening and then making a return after the curtain comes down. Something to sweeten the bitter pill it envelops. The last song is the hopeful theme song that plays during the credits and leaves you with reassurance that everything is good in the world, there's nothing to worry about, the show will always be here.

I honestly loved it. I really believe this was a concept album they intended. I didn't inform myself about this, but I'm fine just living within this reality. It doesn't make sense the sequencing was shuffled around so much, since it seems it is an necessary glue to hold these tracks together. I'm also pretty sure, as with a lot of music coming from that age, it's nothing more than the story of an acid trip.

Excellent choice!

I don't think I would agree with the 2001: A Space Odyssey comparison specifically, but I listened to it in the intended order today (rather than the normal Spotify one), and I'm right there with you about it being a concept. The Pink Floyd/Up from the Desert thing also occurred to me in my first, out of order listen, but it works even better this way. In general it was so much more cohesive this way and I enjoyed it by far the most on this listen.

Hopefully A Go Go holds up. It's almost smooth in parts, but it's very guitar jazzy. MMW, as a trio, has some solid albums of their own, though

Definitely, great suggestion. I listened to this just after lunch and it was a great way to start a Friday afternoon. I'd recommend this to anyone else who enjoyed the organ of Hooteroll? too.

 

[Waitressboy]

Yeah. It will find a way or it won't. And maybe you never like jazz. And, if you don't, it doesn't even matter. It's not better or worse than anything else, or even more "cultured" or superior. It's not like you don't have a full life filled with other things you enjoy, because you're not particularly keen on one specific genre. It's just another sound like a different food. A different "taste." I'm not eating pickled herring anytime soon.

Exactly, but the best part of it all is that as long as we're alive, we can still try. 'Cause that's what life is about: discovering beauty in places we didn't see it before.

And now excuse, I have to look for an exorcist to get rid of this Paulo Coelho I have inside of me.