The National

Similar side conversation/prompt that I've been thinking about...

Do people think Matt's narrators in their lyrics on their earlier albums are cool? I've always thought they were a bit pathetic and that Matt was offering them as a half-joking self-deprecating satire of privileged sad dudes wallowing in their clever self pity and delusions of granduer.

It wasn't until I started reading social media/Reddit criticisms of the new vocalists and Carin's effect on Matt's lyrics the last few albums that I started to realize some people looked to Matt's narrators, both in his vocal presence and lyrics, as sort of personal heroes without the sense of irony or satire that I always viewed as being inherent.

Alongside that question/thought is the realization that I like Matt's voice and his clever/funny word play but I must not love them enough to really mind those elements taking a slight back seat. The additional vocalists, pretty immediately, felt like expansions to the National's palette and like new super powers rather than detrimental attention stealers from what the band is supposed to be. This feels like the National evolving into a bigger, better beast than a side project, IMO.
I mean, I don’t think he writes from any one perspective. Not all of his narrators or songs are about the same things. On a larger scale, and I talked about this recently on the old forum, I think his lyrics can often speak to me because they’re about trying and usually failing to escape his own headspace. So within that headspace, there is wallowing, there are woe is me-isms, there are delusions of himself. But it often feels like it’s about wanting to get past that, about trying to stop your own mind from getting in the way. That’s what I take away from his writing, but that’s s personal thing that maybe no one will agree with me on. But that reading is why I love the music so much (lyrics, singing, everything - they all work together perfectly).

But of course there are also songs from darker perspectives, and I think they’re written in a way that tries to undercut themselves in an attempt to show the weakness in the narrator. Or, like you say, they’re sort of being joking with the subject matter. People can definitely read too much into it, and see these sorts of narrators as cool people, but they’re missing the point.

Yet it’s all up for debate which songs have more personal narratives rather than more character-like ones. I would assume it’s a mix of both throughout all of their albums. And although you can read specific subjects in songs, I think there’s often room for every listener to have their own kind of interpretation. And that’s another part of the beauty of Matt’s lyrics. There’s this strange, surrealistic imagery along with oddly phrased lines and wordplay. I just love the way he writes. And the way Carin writes, because I do believe she’s been a part of the writing process for quite some time.

As the albums have gone on, there have been some slight tweaks to the lyrical subjects than before. Like, all across Sleep Well Beast and I Am Easy To Find, you have songs tackling how difficult it is to stay married. That’s a running theme for these albums, and IAETF adds a new wrinkle to that with providing other voices as the counter to Matt’s. In that sense, the writing has gotten sharper, in a way. I think you can look back on their earlier albums written from the perspective of someone younger (duh), crueler, more naive, and yet willing to grow. IAETF doesn’t necessarily find Matt in a clearer headspace, but I think it shows how he’s grown. He’s not as wholly concerned with only himself. It’s now about his wife and daughter, and sometimes the country at large.

So I don’t know if I even answered your post in a good way. But these are the thoughts I have at the moment.

I don’t think the writing has changed drastically. Lyrically, IAETF remains very in-
line with what they’ve done before. I think the added voices just throw people, like they have me. I can respect what they’re there for, and largely they work, and add further dimensions to their sound. But like many longtime fans, what made The National so appealing initially was the brooding sound of a baritone voice mixing in with all the arrangements. We don’t get that front to back on this album. It’s a shift for sure, and I think if literally any established band with a big fanbase did this, this deep into their career, people would be thrown off a bit. It would always take some adjusting. As for people criticizing the writing, the only thing I can say is that I don’t get it. Sure, some songs have weaker lyrics, or whatever, but that’s often been the case, going all the way back to their debut.
 
If you're a big fan of Boxer, I'd personally recommend Alligator as your next stop. Those are my two favorites!

You know my mind was headed toward Alligator LOL I think once I order next I will check out High Violet and Alligator. I have year end awards so I MUST listen to the new one so I can put it into consideration for possible year end awards.
 
You know my mind was headed toward Alligator LOL I think once I order next I will check out High Violet and Alligator. I have year end awards so I MUST listen to the new one so I can put it into consideration for possible year end awards.
The new one is also fantastic and probably my favorite album of the year so far.
 
Has anybody listened to The Pull of You and thought it sounds like the banter in the song "Popular" by Nada Surf?
 
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Underworld by Tonight Alive. I talked about that record on the May 2019 Vinyl Challenge Jr. thread. They are my favorite band and much like paramore they mean a lot to me. I am looking forward to hearing more from the National!
I am woefully unfamiliar, but will give it a listen!
 
Has anybody listened to The Pull of You and thought it sounds like the banter in the song "Popular" by Nada Surf?

100% yes. Haha. Each time, I am *so close* to tapping my wife on the shoulder and asking her if she hears it too but then it feels like too slight of an observation to actually share.

I also hear the "when the moon hits your eye like a big pizza pie" during Not in Kansas.
 
is there a better place to order the deluxe? 4ad vs band site? Think band site may be cheapest but they had a damaged disclaimer and how they aren't responsible if using media mail.

I just got a payout from gazelle for sending in an old iMac so its burning a hole in my pay pal pocket , as it were
The 3xLP is heavy and the sleeve isn't very sturdy so there's a high chance of damage. Mine has 2 dented corners.
 
My CT copy arrived yesterday and like everyone else (obviously) it didn't even come close to living up to the mock-up. It kind of pisses me off when this happens and in this day and age it really shouldn't happen as often as it does. That being said, it sounds phenomenal so I don't care THAT much.
 
My CT copy arrived yesterday and like everyone else (obviously) it didn't even come close to living up to the mock-up. It kind of pisses me off when this happens and in this day and age it really shouldn't happen as often as it does. That being said, it sounds phenomenal so I don't care THAT much.
What was the difference between the mock up and actual thing?
 
What was the difference between the mock up and actual thing?

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It's a significant difference but I've seen too many mockups and actual records to ever expect much. Neon-ish colors and very distinct patterns are tell tale signs that things are likely *not* going to be like the mockup, especially if its not specifically some hand poured artisan variant.
 
I just got my Cherry Tree version in...it arrived completely unscathed but I'm going to ditch the outer sleeve. While I don't know for sure that it's the type that causes off gassing I think the album cover is gorgeous and doesn't need the writing on it or crinkly looking plastic to muck it up.
 
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