The NBA Thread
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bettim84
Well-Known Member
Ah the human victory cigar.
Fwiw we won the title that year and then made the Finals the very next, so I'd be fine with that outcome!
Fortunately there's zero chance the Pistons will blow it this year, with Cade being a consensus #1 and all. Of course scouts are often wrong (see: Markelle Fultz, Andrew Wiggins, and [gulp] Ben Simmons).
MikeH
Well-Known Member
Ironically I think that’s the only year where the top 5 produced 4 all stars. I still wonder what would have happened if they had taken Melo…I loved that Pistons squad.
people are saying this years top 4 all look really solid and could be all stars. This very well could be a year like when Ayton/Luka/Trae were drafted where most of the top picks end up panning out for those teams.
bettim84
Well-Known Member
I firmly believe the Pistons would not have won the title (certainly not in 2004, possibly not in any subsequent years either) if we had drafted Melo or Bosh. What prompted that Pistons run was the Rasheed trade, and it's hard to imagine the team pulling that off if we had drafted one of those blue chippers. That said, Wade would've probably fit in nicely and could've led to a similarly positive outcome.
Ayton is solid. Luka is the generational talent of that draft (the Lebron equivalent), but Ayton and Trae may be the Melo/Bosh-level talents.
Funny thing: I went to bed last night thinking the Suns had lost. I was following the game on live text and after the Bridges shot the app listed the game as done. I had no idea there was less than a second left on the clock. It wasn't until this morning when I looked at my phone again and saw that the Suns pulled it off.
Suns in 4 is still alive!
Melt Face Molly Drop
Well-Known Member
While Simmons has been outed as somewhat of a fraud this postseason, I just looked up Wiggins, who averages nearly 20 points over 525 career games (all of which he’s started). He may not be a bonafide media star, but I’ll take those numbers any day.
MikeH
Well-Known Member
Yea--it's one of the bigger what-ifs for me in the past 20 years! Ayton may not be a perennial all star but the guy is a fantastic fit in Phoenix. So is Monty and the decision to bring Monty and CP in has paid dividends. Saw an article about Ayton today talking about how Monty and CP have pushed him to play at 150% instead of trying to just get by on his talent like he admittedly did in his first seasons. I also just find Ayton really likeable. The guy always seems to have a smile on his face. I thought him gushing about Jokic in an interview was really funny haha.
MikeH
Well-Known Member
The criticism against Wiggins is just that he didn't seem to care much. I personally don't entirely blame him with how big of a mess Minnesota has been for his first few years. I think he bought in more on the Warriors this season and didn't seem too bad.
TenderLovingKiller®
Well-Known Member
Yeah, there are more than a few top 5 picks who didn’t live up to the hype but had solid NBA careers and it’s always weird that they get looked at as “busts” the same way as others that were genuinely busts.
Melt Face Molly Drop
Well-Known Member
Yeah, he doesn’t have the fire lit under him like some leaders. I’d argue that’s the same issue with Paul George. And jeeeez it’s gonna be hard for him to rebound after those 2 missed free throws. Ball don’t lieeeeee
MikeH
Well-Known Member
I really kinda hope that Kawhi and CP come back this series. I'd love to see both teams at full strength. This has been a great series.
bettim84
Well-Known Member
I don't consider Wiggins or Simmons to be "busts." I just think that they were both lauded as potential franchise players, but unfortunately their ceiling may not be that high. Not every draft features such a player, but 2014 (when Wiggins was drafted) did: Joel Embiid (who dropped to third because of legitimate injury concerns) and Jokic (who no one saw coming).
The biggest #1 pick busts of the last 25 years are (in no particular order) Bennett, Bargnani, Olowakandi, and maybe Kwame Brown (the jury is still out on Fultz, but it's not looking great). The Greg Oden pick is defensible and it's a bummer he was not durable at all.
Most other #1 picks during that stretch range from "very good" (Yao, Bogut, Blake, Brand) to "all-time great" (Lebron, Duncan, Iverson). There's still plenty of time left for a player like Wiggins turn his career around, but right now I have a hard time including him in that "very good" group. To wit: is Wiggins any better than Harrison Barnes?
DJSJ
Well-Known Member
As a lifelong Warriors fan, I was extremely cautious when the Wiggins trade went through. From an asset perspective I understood it, but highly doubted Wiggins could be an effective player on a championship team. But over this season he's completely won me over. He'll effortlessly put up 20 a night, hitting shots when others can't. He's expanded his defense and became our go-to wing defender while Klays out (I can't imagine seeing the two of them together). And most importantly, he's flexible and fits into the system. To quote Coach Kerr "He's not low management- he's no management". He obviously is much more comfortable being the 3rd option and go-to defender, and with no ego or anything. Dude's won me over.
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bettim84
Well-Known Member
Yes, that trade was great for Golden State. I'd love to see them back in the Finals next year with a healthy Klay.
DJSJ
Well-Known Member
Also, can we talk about how the Clippers casually switched players on the floor after a made basket, forced the refs to go to the video to review it, took 7 minutes, and didn't get a delay of game?
Or how Cousins casually double-hand shoves booker after the Ayton dunk and nothing is called.?
Or how Crowder is assessed a Tech after being shoved by Morris? (Double T on both)
Or how after the game winning dunk the sole ref to call everybody back and review it is Scott fucking Foster?
The NBA is shady as shit. I love it, but the day after these kinds of games, when you can actually give specific attention and scrutiny to moments, really pisses me off.
Or how Cousins casually double-hand shoves booker after the Ayton dunk and nothing is called.?
Or how Crowder is assessed a Tech after being shoved by Morris? (Double T on both)
Or how after the game winning dunk the sole ref to call everybody back and review it is Scott fucking Foster?
The NBA is shady as shit. I love it, but the day after these kinds of games, when you can actually give specific attention and scrutiny to moments, really pisses me off.
Jeff Lerner
Well-Known Member
Obviously Ben's stock is extremely low right now, but he has clearly had the best career so far of anyone from that draft, especially when looking at advanced stats:
2016 NBA Draft | Basketball-Reference.com
Checkout the summary for NBA 2016 Draft with Round by Round selections and more on Basketball-Reference.com
www.basketball-reference.com
bettim84
Well-Known Member
Ben’s good and I appreciate your careful phrasing (“best career so far”), but is he “clearly” better than Jaylen Brown? Sabonis? Jamal Murray? Ingram? Siakam? Brogdon? Buddy Hield?Obviously Ben's stock is extremely low right now, but he has clearly had the best career so far of anyone from that draft, especially when looking at advanced stats:
2016 NBA Draft | Basketball-Reference.com
Checkout the summary for NBA 2016 Draft with Round by Round selections and more on Basketball-Reference.com
I’ve generally been pro-Ben (he can have shades of Lebron when aggressively driving toward the rim, and is a great defensive player), but he’s a tough guy to build around. His best-case scenario is to be a Draymond Green type (DPOY and great playmaker), but Green has an intangible winning mentality that Ben seems to lack.
Again, I hope I’m not being too insensitive when I say that Ben needs some serious mental health help. He is his own worst enemy. I don’t think he can ever be a top 10 player, but he could easily be the 3rd or 4st best guy on a championship team (and should probably be paid accordingly).
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