The NBA Thread

I would’ve preferred if the Suns had won but over the course of the series it became impossible not to be happy for Giannis and Khris. What a journey.

Recency bias poll: who has the better resume at this point, Giannis or Kawhi? It’s at least debatable.
 
bettim84 said:
I would’ve preferred if the Suns had won but over the course of the series it became impossible not to be happy for Giannis and Khris. What a journey.

Recency bias poll: who has the better resume at this point, Giannis or Kawhi? It’s at least debatable.
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Is it even recency bias? Kawhi is 2/3 in the finals, 2 finals mvps, 2 dpoy. Giannis is 1/1 in the finals, 1 finals mvp, 2 mvp awards, 1 dpoy, 1 most improved. Also has to be mentioned Kawhi played and won a title with the greatest PF ever and has played with PG13, one of the league’s best 1B guys. Holiday and Middleton are great, but they ain’t Tim Duncan.

edit: both these resumes are just ridiculous ha. I don’t know which one is better, but we have gotten to watch so much amazing talent in the league lately.
 
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Psymon said:
Is it even recency bias? Kawhi is 2/3 in the finals, 2 finals mvps, 2 dpoy. Giannis is 1/1 in the finals, 1 finals mvp, 2 mvp awards, 1 dpoy, 1 most improved. Also has to be mentioned Kawhi played and won a title with the greatest PF ever and has played with PG13, one of the league’s best 1B guys. Holiday and Middleton are great, but they ain’t Tim Duncan.

edit: both these resumes are just ridiculous ha. I don’t know which one is better, but we have gotten to watch so much amazing talent in the league lately.
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I mean, Kawhi hasn't even sniffed league MVP, has he? Giannis has 2.
 
I’ve been wondering what the Knicks were up to, amassing all these future second and late-first round picks. Now the strategy is becoming clear: stockpile those assets so you can use them to get out from under the very predictably crappy 3-year deals you’re about to sign.
 
Space Wanderer said:
I’ve been wondering what the Knicks were up to, amassing all these future second and late-first round picks. Now the strategy is becoming clear: stockpile those assets so you can use them to get out from under the very predictably crappy 3-year deals you’re about to sign.
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I don’t think any were all that crappy but a lot of people are tied to old valuations and not considering the salary cap. We are pretty much running this team back and upgraded Reggie for Fournier. Nerlens being a 3 year deal is maybe the only confusing one. $10 mil per and 3 years on Burks is good value and easily tradeable. Didn’t see if Rose was fully guaranteed but it’s still not a bad contract. We still have flexibility and are banking on our younger guys improving this season.

compare the contracts we signed to others around the league and none are really overpays. I get that it’s easy to make fun of the knicks because of their past but none of the moves were bad and all are very easy to move if we need or decent pieces to send out in a bigger trade. The pelicans are really the ones making moves that make no sense.

ESPN is already pushing the Zion to NY rumors since we signed only 3 year deals haha
 
MikeH said:
I don’t think any were all that crappy but a lot of people are tied to old valuations and not considering the salary cap. We are pretty much running this team back and upgraded Reggie for Fournier. Nerlens being a 3 year deal is maybe the only confusing one. $10 mil per and 3 years on Burks is good value and easily tradeable. Didn’t see if Rose was fully guaranteed but it’s still not a bad contract. We still have flexibility and are banking on our younger guys improving this season.

compare the contracts we signed to others around the league and none are really overpays. I get that it’s easy to make fun of the knicks because of their past but none of the moves were bad and all are very easy to move if we need or decent pieces to send out in a bigger trade. The pelicans are really the ones making moves that make no sense.

ESPN is already pushing the Zion to NY rumors since we signed only 3 year deals haha
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I think we’re agreeing - these contracts will be “easily tradeable”…if you attach second round picks to them. But to me it seems much more likely that having multi-year deals at $10M+/per for obvious injury/regression cases like Rose, Noel and Burks on the books will be an impediment to meaningfully improving this team in the near future than helpful.

I also agree that they are running the same team back with Fournier swapped in for Bullock. Where we might disagree is on whether that is a satisfactory plan or not. I don’t believe that Randle can be the centerpiece of a team that goes further than the Knicks did last year. I think it’s very possible, even likely, that he and most of the rest of the team overperformed in a weird, shortened season. And if Thibs’ history is any guide, the clock is ticking down to the point where the team mutinies against him and things get real ugly.
 
Space Wanderer said:
I think we’re agreeing - these contracts will be “easily tradeable”…if you attach second round picks to them. But to me it seems much more likely that having multi-year deals at $10M+/per for obvious injury/regression cases like Rose, Noel and Burks on the books will be an impediment to meaningfully improving this team in the near future than helpful.

I also agree that they are running the same team back with Fournier swapped in for Bullock. Where we might disagree is on whether that is a satisfactory plan or not. I don’t believe that Randle can be the centerpiece of a team that goes further than the Knicks did last year. I think it’s very possible, even likely, that he and most of the rest of the team overperformed in a weird, shortened season. And if Thibs’ history is any guide, the clock is ticking down to the point where the team mutinies against him and things get real ugly.
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Fournier was traded FOR 2 2nd rounders last season. He's a three point shooter who can create his own shot and does a bit of playmaking, so barring any injury I think he could probably be flipped for an asset or two toward the back end of his contract. He's a good stop gap for us and better than Reg who couldn't even dribble. Noel at 10 mil is also probably good value for a contender at some point. He was very very good last season defensively.

If you have a good capologist, these kinds of deals and keeping cap space doesn't entirely matter, and Aller is regarded as one of the best in the league (behind Andy Elisburg of course). We didn't sign any godawful deals like we usually do and didn't really overpay on anyone. All three are 3 year deals as well (Fournier is not guaranteed in year 4). Gives us bird rights on everyone if we want/need them or if that is appealing to trade partners. Between the contracts we have and the picks we have, there are tons of options available for us moving forward. We have the option to trade for a disgruntled superstar. We can also offload some contracts pretty easily if a FA wants to sign here. Or we can keep pushing forward and try to have some continuity. I think this team improved over last season with swapping Reggie out for Fournier plus the Grimes and Deuce picks. The best move at this point is for us to try to be in the playoffs and keep tabs on FAs and trades to improve the roster.

The Thibs history thing is real silly IMO too. He's in a situation where he is really close and in simpatico with the FO here. He was run out of Chicago by an absolutely awful front office. He was run out of Minnesota because he never should have been named president and had control of roster decisions. And the players there were a bad fit for his style of coaching. KAT and Wiggins, by most accounts, are not the hardest workers but the guys we have on this team now all seem to be a great fit for Thibs. RJ, Julius, IQ, Obi, Mitch, Grimes and McBride are all workhorses who live in the gym. It's nice to finally have a little continuity too. Every season, we were just signing 1 year deals and kicking the can down the road. Do any of these signings make us a contender? Not at all. Do any prevent us from making moves to upgrade the roster? Nope. It's not a flashy FA but we likely improved over last season so I'm fine with it.
 
MikeH said:
Fournier was traded FOR 2 2nd rounders last season. He's a three point shooter who can create his own shot and does a bit of playmaking, so barring any injury I think he could probably be flipped for an asset or two toward the back end of his contract. He's a good stop gap for us and better than Reg who couldn't even dribble. Noel at 10 mil is also probably good value for a contender at some point. He was very very good last season defensively.

If you have a good capologist, these kinds of deals and keeping cap space doesn't entirely matter, and Aller is regarded as one of the best in the league (behind Andy Elisburg of course). We didn't sign any godawful deals like we usually do and didn't really overpay on anyone. All three are 3 year deals as well (Fournier is not guaranteed in year 4). Gives us bird rights on everyone if we want/need them or if that is appealing to trade partners. Between the contracts we have and the picks we have, there are tons of options available for us moving forward. We have the option to trade for a disgruntled superstar. We can also offload some contracts pretty easily if a FA wants to sign here. Or we can keep pushing forward and try to have some continuity. I think this team improved over last season with swapping Reggie out for Fournier plus the Grimes and Deuce picks. The best move at this point is for us to try to be in the playoffs and keep tabs on FAs and trades to improve the roster.

The Thibs history thing is real silly IMO too. He's in a situation where he is really close and in simpatico with the FO here. He was run out of Chicago by an absolutely awful front office. He was run out of Minnesota because he never should have been named president and had control of roster decisions. And the players there were a bad fit for his style of coaching. KAT and Wiggins, by most accounts, are not the hardest workers but the guys we have on this team now all seem to be a great fit for Thibs. RJ, Julius, IQ, Obi, Mitch, Grimes and McBride are all workhorses who live in the gym. It's nice to finally have a little continuity too. Every season, we were just signing 1 year deals and kicking the can down the road. Do any of these signings make us a contender? Not at all. Do any prevent us from making moves to upgrade the roster? Nope. It's not a flashy FA but we likely improved over last season so I'm fine with it.
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Fournier was an asset as a $10M expiring, not necessarily at $17/per for a multi year deal. They gave Rose $14M per through his age 35 season! $10M+ per for a backup center who can’t score! These are not good deals, especially if the best you can say about them is that they won’t be completely crippling if the Knicks (the frigging Knicks!) can be creative & flexible in the future.

You seem to be saying that these deals are not necessarily going to doom the franchise, which I agree with. But for a team with a good foundation, a stash of draft picks and more cap space than anyone else in the league, I think this approach calls into question whether the people running the team have a viable strategy for how to get to the next level.
 
Space Wanderer said:
Fournier was an asset as a $10M expiring, not necessarily at $17/per for a multi year deal. They gave Rose $14M per through his age 35 season! $10M+ per for a backup center who can’t score! These are not good deals, especially if the best you can say about them is that they won’t be completely crippling if the Knicks (the frigging Knicks!) can be creative & flexible in the future.

You seem to be saying that these deals are not necessarily going to doom the franchise, which I agree with. But for a team with a good foundation, a stash of draft picks and more cap space than anyone else in the league, I think this approach calls into question whether the people running the team have a viable strategy for how to get to the next level.
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IMO the viable strategy is stay in the hunt for the playoffs and keep an eye on FA and trades. They aren't making any moves that hamstring them much at all. Noel was a top 5, if not top 3 defensive center in the NBA last season by most metrics. Him and Mitch, if healthy, are a great tandem and some teams in the playoffs really suffered with their big rotations (like Phoenix). I don't think they are bargain deals, but they aren't really overpays either IMO. DRose in year 3 might be for sure but he fits a role for us now and excels at it.

Fournier was easily market value for his skillset plus they got a team option. Still curious to see the ACTUAL details of his contract once he signs. Marks mentioned I think that a lot of these numbers are including incentives so Fournier may be less money. Thought it was weird that Woj said "4 years and as much as 78 mil".

We still have a lot of paths to upgrade the team moving forward. FA this year was pretty bad and personally, I don't blame the FO for trying to keep continuity after a pretty good season. We were never getting Lowry or CP and 99% of the FAs linked to us were linked to us to up their contract price in negotiations with other teams. I'm just glad we didn't sign Schroeder for his wanted asking price. We were never going to tank this season either and I'm not sure what viable FA signings were out there for us this year.
 
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