The Pro-Ject Pergola - Questions, Answers, Advice & Chat

HayesWeighsIn said:
I’m definitely curious to hear the Moonstone. Seen a fair number of very happy users about. I suspect, thinking ahead, when I put together a second setup, it’d better have a removable headshell with adjustable VTA with all this cartridge curiosity!

Then again, the Debut Carbon EVO at $499 in the States with the Sumiko seems like a pretty bang up deal.
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I've heard they're quite good - at the very least, they have less divisive tuning than the 2Ms.
 
Joe Mac said:
Haha! Divisive tuning 😂

We can all agree that the red is pretty terrible though? Lol!

I’ve heard the sumiko carts can sound nice, I’ve also heard the QC is a bit erratic...
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It's true, I didn't really like my Red. I stand by the Bronze as a technically excellent cart the voicing of which is not to everyone's liking.
 
Joe Mac said:
Haha! Divisive tuning 😂

We can all agree that the red is pretty terrible though? Lol!

I’ve heard the sumiko carts can sound nice, I’ve also heard the QC is a bit erratic...
Click to expand...

I'm gonna stand up for the Red! Is it a good tracker? No, not really. But it's got this scrappiness that I haven't heard out of any other cart. If you're into listening to loud stuff and just wanna get wild, that's the cart. Brash as all hell!
 
kvetcha said:
It's true, I didn't really like my Red. I stand by the Bronze as a technically excellent cart the voicing of which is not to everyone's liking.
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Yeah I mean I’m not necessarily going to argue with that BUT to me the voicing is absolutely the one key factor buying the cart which is why I feel the way I do about the two higher 2M’s

HayesWeighsIn said:
I'm gonna stand up for the Red! Is it a good tracker? No, not really. But it's got this scrappiness that I haven't heard out of any other cart. If you're into listening to loud stuff and just wanna get wild, that's the cart. Brash as all hell!
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I’m gunna have to disagree completely and in every way with you here. It has all the bad parts of the rest of the line and doesn’t even have the balancing out of pulling lots of detail, an utter stinker for me. Putting a blue on the cartridge was a huge eye opener for me. The blue is the one and only 2M cartridge that I’d come out to bat for, it’s a decent and nice sounding option at the price it sells for over here.
 
Joe Mac said:
I’m gunna have to disagree completely and in every way with you here. It has all the bad parts of the rest of the line and doesn’t even have the balancing out of pulling lots of detail, an utter stinker for me. Putting a blue on the cartridge was a huge eye opener for me. The blue is the one and only 2M cartridge that I’d come out to bat for, it’s a decent and nice sounding option at the price it sells for over here.
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Fair enough! Complex or detailed, it certainly is not. But raucous and unapologetic, yes! I realize most folks aren't listening to the medium for that, but you throw it on a 1200, it's a party. It's NOT a sit in your chair and get lost experience, that's for sure!
 
Joe Mac said:
Yeah I mean I’m not necessarily going to argue with that BUT to me the voicing is absolutely the one key factor buying the cart which is why I feel the way I do about the two higher 2M’s
Click to expand...
All fair. I think from an objective standpoint the technical merits of those carts are apparent, but the subjective qualities are obviously very, very divisive.

That said, plenty of people rag on Grado and other well-known makes for similar subjective qualities. We’ve all got our own ears; it’s what makes the hobby what it is.
 
HayesWeighsIn said:
I’m definitely curious to hear the Moonstone. Seen a fair number of very happy users about. I suspect, thinking ahead, when I put together a second setup, it’d better have a removable headshell with adjustable VTA with all this cartridge curiosity!

Then again, the Debut Carbon EVO at $499 in the States with the Sumiko seems like a pretty bang up deal.
Click to expand...
The beauty of a detachable headshell is the ability to switch between stereo and mono cartridges. If you plan carefully, you can swap between the two without any adjustments like @AnthonyI does.

A secondary advantage is using lighter or heavier headshells to get an optimum pairing between the arm and cartridge. You can use the weight of the headshell to get an optimum match to the compliance of the cartridge.
 
kvetcha said:
All fair. I think from an objective standpoint the technical merits of those carts are apparent, but the subjective qualities are obviously very, very divisive.

That said, plenty of people rag on Grado and other well-known makes for similar subjective qualities. We’ve all got our own ears; it’s what makes the hobby what it is.
Click to expand...
Most people rag on Grados because of their tendency to hum when mounted on an incompatible turntable.

Back on the day, I see the complaint. Not in the 21st century though. The info is out there and it’s not difficult to figure out on your own without the easily found Google spreadsheet.
 
HayesWeighsIn said:
Fair enough! Complex or detailed, it certainly is not. But raucous and unapologetic, yes! I realize most folks aren't listening to the medium for that, but you throw it on a 1200, it's a party. It's NOT a sit in your chair and get lost experience, that's for sure!
Click to expand...
Agreed. The 2m Red isn’t a “get lost in the experience” cartridge. It’s a make polite small talk and get away as fast as one can cartridge.

The Shure M44-7 was a party your ass off cartridge. Not Hi Fi but a hell of a lot of fun. It had balls- a bloated deep and mid bass and no real top end to speak of. But it didn’t make one want to go to the dentist as a better choice than spinning records either- that’s the Red’s MO.
 
HayesWeighsIn said:
I’m definitely curious to hear the Moonstone. Seen a fair number of very happy users about. I suspect, thinking ahead, when I put together a second setup, it’d better have a removable headshell with adjustable VTA with all this cartridge curiosity!

Then again, the Debut Carbon EVO at $499 in the States with the Sumiko seems like a pretty bang up deal.
Click to expand...

HiFi Guy said:
The beauty of a detachable headshell is the ability to switch between stereo and mono cartridges. If you plan carefully, you can swap between the two without any adjustments like @AnthonyI does.

A secondary advantage is using lighter or heavier headshells to get an optimum pairing between the arm and cartridge. You can use the weight of the headshell to get an optimum match to the compliance of the cartridge.
Click to expand...
Without a doubt one of the best things on the PLX set up. I was of the same mind set, that if I had a second system a removable headshell was a BIG checkbox for much the same reason, I knew I wanted to give other carts a try over time, but really wanted to cut down the hassle of doing so.

That being said, while I'm still working on the "Is it worth it" post covering the Goldv3 / Mono sound comparison, the ease of use, meaning, moving from the stereo to mono cart, is beyond wonderful. The Grado Goldv3 is an amazing cart, I have over 30 hours on it now and it opened up beautifully, now to get the mono cart all burned in and then we can do some realistic A/B comparisons.

The only crappy part is Jelco going out of business and their HS-20 headshell going up in price, they could be had for $63 ($55 before that) not too long ago, now they're up to $87.
 
HiFi Guy said:
The Shure M44-7 was a party your ass off cartridge. Not Hi Fi but a hell of a lot of fun. It had balls- a bloated deep and mid bass and no real top end to speak of. But it didn’t make one want to go to the dentist as a better choice than spinning records either- that’s the Red’s MO.
Click to expand...

I have a lot of love and great memories of an M44-7 on a 1200 - or a pair, depending on the situation!
 
kvetcha said:
I've heard they're quite good - at the very least, they have less divisive tuning than the 2Ms.
Click to expand...

Joe Mac said:
Haha! Divisive tuning 😂

We can all agree that the red is pretty terrible though? Lol!

I’ve heard the sumiko carts can sound nice, I’ve also heard the QC is a bit erratic...
Click to expand...

kvetcha said:
It's true, I didn't really like my Red. I stand by the Bronze as a technically excellent cart the voicing of which is not to everyone's liking.
Click to expand...
you all finally have a company to tell the hifi companies to support instead of ortofon and it has the popularity of a brand like project (and like ortofon they do everything from MM to cheap MC)

but legit as long as people love the cartridge they got thats all that matters, the objective tests about tracking or channel separation mean nothing if the sound is not pretty to you

kvetcha said:
All fair. I think from an objective standpoint the technical merits of those carts are apparent, but the subjective qualities are obviously very, very divisive.

That said, plenty of people rag on Grado and other well-known makes for similar subjective qualities. We’ve all got our own ears; it’s what makes the hobby what it is.
Click to expand...
tbh i am one of them.. i like my stuff bright.. especially in the 500 to 4K range... so yeah maybe i am more an ortofon person
 
duke86fan said:
you all finally have a company to tell the hifi companies to support instead of ortofon and it has the popularity of a brand like project (and like ortofon they do everything from MM to cheap MC)

but legit as long as people love the cartridge they got thats all that matters, the objective tests about tracking or channel separation mean nothing if the sound is not pretty to you


tbh i am one of them.. i like my stuff bright.. especially in the 500 to 4K range... so yeah maybe i am more an ortofon person
Click to expand...

I think you’ll enjoy the Blue, Dukey.
 
Hi team,

I have a question about the Tonearm lift on my Project Classic. I imagine this is something which relates to all Project turntables so hopefully one of you have experienced a similar thing before. I noticed the other day that when I use the tonearm lift towards the end of an LP it basically doesn't lift enough and as a result, it doesn't really do its job. This isn't something that I have ever noticed before so im thinking it might have dropped slightly BUT its fine at the beginning of the LP (or the outside) so im thinking its dropped at an angle? Is it possible to adust this? I have had a look in the manual and an online search but have had no luck so far. Here's a few photos which shows the tonearm lifted on the inside and outside of the LP.

IMG_4913.JPG
IMG_4914.JPG
 
Honestly that looks low both on the outside and inside. Different project table but I’ll take a picture of mine on the next spin for reference. When you look at your headshell from the front does it look level to the naked eye?
 
Joe Mac said:
Honestly that looks low both on the outside and inside. Different project table but I’ll take a picture of mine on the next spin for reference. When you look at your headshell from the front does it look level to the naked eye?
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Urgh so just came back online to post that im an idiot and should have messed around with the actual thing first. Basically, it appears that the right angled shelf/arm that raises the tonearm had appeared to move down ever so slightly. I just lifted it slightly (so much that I didn't even notice any movement) and now its working perfectly, with significantly more clearance overall.
 
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