wmeugene
Well-Known Member
It's a gorgeous table in my opinion, but nothing to explain really why it's a step above an Ultradeck to justify the expense.
The Pro-Ject Pergola - Questions, Answers, Advice & Chat
- Thread starter Joe Mac
- Start date
kvetcha
Chet Hanks' Filmography Buff
Handmade wood plinth and limited production I guess.
They’ll sell every one. I like it!
HayesWeighsIn
Well-Known Member
Oh you bet they will. Limited to 1,000! I like it, too! Commented on their Instagram post that they should consider making some Studios and Ultras in other finishes!
Joe Mac
Well-Known Member
Hey everyone!
Acoustand have released a new bearing snd sub-platter upgrade for the the Debut and Xpression/Classic models.
I have the last generation and it made a huge difference to my table. This new one is a substsintal upgrade again. They’re still using the Delrin sub-platter but they’ve massively improved the bearing. It’s now a solid bronze bearing. Can’t recommend these guys highly enough, everything that I’ve ever bought from them has been a real top class product!
Acoustand have released a new bearing snd sub-platter upgrade for the the Debut and Xpression/Classic models.
I have the last generation and it made a huge difference to my table. This new one is a substsintal upgrade again. They’re still using the Delrin sub-platter but they’ve massively improved the bearing. It’s now a solid bronze bearing. Can’t recommend these guys highly enough, everything that I’ve ever bought from them has been a real top class product!
NEW PRODUCT!! Pro-Ject Subplatter & Bearing Upgrades. (IMPORT COSTS FREE)
Finally after a long 18 months the HiFi Choice 5 star award Acoustand Pro-ject subplatter upgrades are ready for pre order.This is a first come first serve pre order basis and are very limited.Acoustand Audio are proud to announce the return of th...
www.acoustand.co.uk
HayesWeighsIn
Well-Known Member
Curious how this Debut Pro will stack up against the X1!
THEEDADROCK.BLOG
Santa Extraordinaire
Hey everyone!
Acoustand have released a new bearing snd sub-platter upgrade for the the Debut and Xpression/Classic models.
I have the last generation and it made a huge difference to my table. This new one is a substsintal upgrade again. They’re still using the Delrin sub-platter but they’ve massively improved the bearing. It’s now a solid bronze bearing. Can’t recommend these guys highly enough, everything that I’ve ever bought from them has been a real top class product!
NEW PRODUCT!! Pro-Ject Subplatter & Bearing Upgrades. (IMPORT COSTS FREE)
Finally after a long 18 months the HiFi Choice 5 star award Acoustand Pro-ject subplatter upgrades are ready for pre order.This is a first come first serve pre order basis and are very limited.Acoustand Audio are proud to announce the return of th...www.acoustand.co.uk
What's the difference in quality/performance between the Acoustand sub-platter and the OEM platter:
Debut Alu Sub-Platter - Pro-Ject Audio USA
Pro-Ject's Debut Alu subplatter is compatible with all Debut variants old & new - it adds rotational mass, rigidity, higher precision due to CNC machining
pro-jectusa.com
At first glance it looks like the Acoustand is brass vs the OEM being aluminum. Any major differences between the materials?
Also of note, the Acoustand is $261 US vs the Pro-Ject OEM at $159
Thanks!
Hollywood
Well-Known Member
Pro-Ject Audio Debut Pro vs X1 turntable
- The Debut Pro is a celebration of 30 years of Pro-Ject Audio making quality turntable for the market. And it's release comes just a year after the Debut Carbon Evo which was a Debut Carbon DC with some brilliant new features and finishes.
The Debut series is everything that playback should be: it's easy, it's incredibly fun and it makes vinyl playback accessible and enjoyable irrespective of it's setting. The new Debut Pro features some significant upgrades over the Debut Evo. Namely:
- New Pick IT Pro cartridge
- New gimbal assembly, allowing VTA and Azimuth adjustment
- Nickel-plated aluminium bearing block
- Aluminium dampened platter
- Upgraded dampened feet
The X1 is the first turntable in the X series (X1, X2, 6Perspex SB, Xtension line).
In comparison to the Debut Pro, it features:
- a thicker plinth
- thick acrylic platter
- Pick IT 2M cartridge
- VTA and Azimuth adjustment
- Deeper/Wider platform (more overall mass)
In terms of what each turntable range is designed to do:
- DEBUT started life at £109 when it released in the 90's - it's a turntable that's designed to be fun, make music playback easy and accessible to all. Sound is full bodied - it's not shouty or overly "in your face" - it's very forward, incredibly dynamic in the bass and it's engaging. It's the best of the T1 + original Debut series that's evolved to bring audiophile characteristics without requiring a system that's ultra high end. It's a table designed for the everyday system and will still sound great - so if you're running it on an entry level integrated amp or an old CD/tuner/amp unit - this table is designed to grip you and give you a fun, all-rounder experience.
- The X line however is altogether different. The X1 is the entry level table in the range but everything from the big brother (the X2) filters down here proportionally: acrylic platter, large plinth, oversized platform, adjustable VTA and Azimuth and a thicker, more dynamic tonearm. The X series is designed to extract detail. The better the cartridge - the more this table shows it's true potential. The additional mass allows you to explore more in the groove without it becoming too unrefined in terms of details and dynamic range.
- So what did I find?
Well - the two tables despite being separated by only £100 couldn't have been more different....
When it came to the X1: The presentation is more balanced - more natural. You're likely hearing a closer match to how this was mixed. Smaller details are carried through - and the percussion seemed to come alive. You could really sense the "click" and the "punch" on the drum skin - and smaller details like fret adjustment and baby cymbal crashes were more apparent. Certainly the organ playback in the record seemed more prominent - and we all agreed that overall imaging and tonality was more accurate. Most importantly: rhythm and timing felt more accurate too. It's the kind of turntable that makes you really "lean in" to listen to the specific details of the track - but without it being full of high end detail that sometimes makes you turn off after a few minutes.
When it came to the DEBUT: The presentation much like other tables in the DEBUT line was more dynamic, fun and inviting. We described it in the room as being closer to the front of the audience at a rock concert - where it made you want to dance! The Debut Pro did a really good job of bringing out more detail then you'd expect given it's purpose but the new design features really did elevate it's performance over it's older siblings. It was harder to place instruments - though sound wasn't distorted or muffled, it was just generally more focussed dead ahead with imaging having less localisation and smaller details generally being harder to visualise and separate. But none of this really mattered - because the playback had us all smiling and not running to turn it off!
So which sounded better..........?
Well define "better"...! Neither table out performed the other in terms of quality of playback. The playback was just different.
What is important to me, is less important to you perhaps and vice versa! My dad prefers a BIG bottom end sound - loads of bass and something that he can turn right up loud with his KLIPSCH speakers. He's not looking for masses of information and detail - he just wants clear vocals, great guitar and drums.
I on the other hand prefer enjoying quieter playback that's more neutral in the output which focusses on what the artist/mixer produced. If they want you to hear something over something else - I want to experience that!
For us - it was a great example of two products that are similarly priced but couldn't be more different in the playback experience. Both produce a stunning sound, ease of use and plenty of adjustability to allow you to tweak the cartridge, experience moving coils or high quality moving magnets and have a long and enjoyable experience with listening to records.
Depending on where you are on your musical journey (be it your system, the size of your record collection, your budget, your aesthetic requirements) - both tables will not let you down but one may be a slightly better match!
The Debut does come with some upgrades available it's worth noting:
- Aluminium sub platter
- Acrylic platter
- Light weight puck
- Aluminium sub platter
Upgrades won't make the Debut Pro a different turntable - they will however aid the sound quality, depth and range of the sound and compliance (speed, wow and flutter).
We hope you found this article interesting and fun! We're a Top Partner of Pro-Ject Audio and stock both products. The Debut Pro is due in September, with the X1 being an already stocked item.
Joe Mac
Well-Known Member
What's the difference in quality/performance between the Acoustand sub-platter and the OEM platter:
Debut Alu Sub-Platter - Pro-Ject Audio USA
Pro-Ject's Debut Alu subplatter is compatible with all Debut variants old & new - it adds rotational mass, rigidity, higher precision due to CNC machining
At first glance it looks like the Acoustand is brass vs the OEM being aluminum. Any major differences between the materials?
Also of note, the Acoustand is $261 US vs the Pro-Ject OEM at $159
Thanks!
In terms of the actual sub platter itself. The Acoustand is delrin. The acoustand has the same benefit of being heavier and so providing a better flywheel effect that the standard plastic thus giving you less chance of speed variance and so lower wow and flutter. The acoustand delrin however has a lower resonance than metal and that is always a good thing with record playback.
In terms of the bearing. The project just uses the existing bearing. Acoustand felt that wasn’t up to the task. The previous generation, that I have, had an uprated delrin bearing. This new one has a brass bearing. Acoustand claims that this new bearing allows a better presentation which give a platform for more nuance and detail to be potentially retrieved by the deck in comparison to their old delrin bearing. I felt there was a huge improvement when I got the delrin sub platter and bearing so I would be totally confident in their claims that this new one was better again.
I suppose you’re talking the difference between a manufacturer dropping in a nice subplatter upgrade to use with the existing bearing and a bespoke audio company seeing just how far they can push subplatter and bearing improvements on a modest table. For me the project one is far too steep in price given it’s just the subplatter.
Ghost
Original Resident Ghost
Good review
Was it him that said it was better than a technics 1200?
HayesWeighsIn
Well-Known Member
That was Darko! That was a very interesting take. I'm looking forward to watching this one. The Debut Pro seems to be getting some very favorable nods initially.
Joe Mac
Well-Known Member
Lack of VTA has always been a bugbear of mine so it’s good to see that on there and an improved tonearm is cool too. The lack of the acrylic platter feels like a retrograde step although with the VTA I’d half be tempted to get a 5mm funk firm achromat instead for less money than upgrading to the acrylic. That said even as a fan of the debut range I’d still find it hard to look beyond the technics 100c to this at the same price.
Joe Mac
Well-Known Member
Also a re-voiced and re-badged 2M Red doesn’t cut the mustard at this price point. But you could also say the same for the more expensive X1 and X2 in fairness.
HayesWeighsIn
Well-Known Member
I believe you can upgrade to the acrylic platter, yeah?
Joe Mac
Well-Known Member
Yeah but it’s a £700 turntable that you’ve got to add £150 to for that platter. It came included on my £480 version a decade ago! I’d probably pay £80 for a 5mm achromat instead. I’d also want to upgrade the sub-platter and bearing on it too. And the cartridge.
HayesWeighsIn
Well-Known Member
I totally agree, but I think it's pretty much impossible to compare prices of audio equipment from a decade ago, unfortunately. Hell, even from a year or two ago! There's a number of tables now that I would no longer consider at their increased retail cost. Guess it's like cars, real estate, guitars, the list goes on! Hell... records???
Joe Mac
Well-Known Member
I totally agree, but I think it's pretty much impossible to compare prices of audio equipment from a decade ago, unfortunately. Hell, even from a year or two ago! There's a number of tables now that I would no longer consider at their increased retail cost. Guess it's like cars, real estate, guitars, the list goes on! Hell... records???
It was selling for that price right up until last year when it was discontinued though! There are totally reasons that this is more expensive, even beyond increased materials costs, but it seems sad that they’ve stripped something positive off what is clearly a better table too. Even if they’d done a version that was say £50 or £60 more, so a discounted upgrade, like they used to with the esprit, that would be a better state of affairs.
Oh yeah totally but I look at the stretch in this, and there is a good bit, and the stretch in the technics 100c, which as a base isn’t that much more money, and there isn’t a contest imo!
I’d take the 100c with the funk firm isolation bubble suite of upgrades and KAB tonearm damper over the X1/X2/Classic Evo as well to be fair!
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dansomeone
Well-Known Member
food, rent, health care...I totally agree, but I think it's pretty much impossible to compare prices of audio equipment from a decade ago, unfortunately. Hell, even from a year or two ago! There's a number of tables now that I would no longer consider at their increased retail cost. Guess it's like cars, real estate, guitars, the list goes on! Hell... records???
Joe Mac
Well-Known Member
They arrived already!!!