Totally Tubular: The Tube Thread

HiFi Guy said:
Well, it’s been up and running for 5 hours or so. I’ve died and gone to Heaven. I did get the tubes biased perfectly- right now I’m using the tubes it came with. The input tubes appear to be ‘70s-80s GE. Not sure what the driver tubes are. The output tubes are Sovtek EL84M. The bias was a touch high on 7 of the 8 output tubes. It’s super easy to set the bias and Manley even includes a nice digital meter in the box.

20 watts of triode power is working out beautifully. A friend was here tonight and she was amazed- not a hi fi buff at all but loves music. The NAD was good, but this is definitely a level or 3 above. This is a keeper for sure. She heard the difference right away.

Again, specs and bench tests are pretty bad. And I don’t care. My ears are happy.

I’ll also never misplace the remote. 🤣🤣🤣


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I do love the way this thing looks! Got a glowy-ish night shot?
 
Slimwhit33 said:
Hey @Joe Mac … are you running the stock tubes in your 300p or have you rolled them? I’m going to replace the stock tubes in mine shortly and hold onto them as backups and wondered if you had gone though it.
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I have. I kept the stock 12au7 as the four driver tubes but rolled the two gain tubes. I’ve had a pair of gold lions and a pair of ps vane silver. The gold lions were better but are now silly prices. The ps vane are actually pretty close though, better than I thought they would be. Watford Valves push NOS Philips quite hard so that might be my next set.

With the rectifiers on yours I’ve heard stay away from modern production Russian, it eats them up apparently. If modern stick to the PS Vane silver which is what is in them as stock since Shungang shut down. I’ve heard good things about a particular NOS Philips but supposedly its become quite rare because of its popularity in the PL community.

I know power tubes aren’t an issue with yours but as I don’t care for EL34 so much I’ve pretty much always had KT88s bar a brief dalliance with the self destructive NOS Svetlana Winged C 6550s from TAD. They were golden but just kept failing. Again gold lion my faves with EH not so bad. Currently running Ruby Tubes due to price and they’re pretty good, similar to the EH but not the gold lion. I’d like to try one of the monster tubes next but it’ll all depend on the Russia situation in a couple of years.
 
Joe Mac said:
I have. I kept the stock 12au7 as the four driver tubes but rolled the two gain tubes. I’ve had a pair of gold lions and a pair of ps vane silver. The gold lions were better but are now silly prices. The ps vane are actually pretty close though, better than I thought they would be. Watford Valves push NOS Philips quite hard so that might be my next set.

With the rectifiers on yours I’ve heard stay away from modern production Russian, it eats them up apparently. If modern stick to the PS Vane silver which is what is in them as stock since Shungang shut down. I’ve heard good things about a particular NOS Philips but supposedly its become quite rare because of its popularity in the PL community.

I know power tubes aren’t an issue with yours but as I don’t care for EL34 so much I’ve pretty much always had KT88s bar a brief dalliance with the self destructive NOS Svetlana Winged C 6550s from TAD. They were golden but just kept failing. Again gold lion my faves with EH not so bad. Currently running Ruby Tubes due to price and they’re pretty good, similar to the EH but not the gold lion. I’d like to try one of the monster tubes next but it’ll all depend on the Russia situation in a couple of years.
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Tube prices are a bit wild.. I was looking at Upscale and he has some nice Radiotechnique and Brimar 12au7’s but super expensive. Might be worth it for the two driver tubes? Otherwise I was thinking Gold Lions in the drivers and maybe Mullards in the 4 other? No PS Vane at Upscale but I’ll take a look around. Appreciate the info!
 
Slimwhit33 said:
Tube prices are a bit wild.. I was looking at Upscale and he has some nice Radiotechnique and Brimar 12au7’s but super expensive. Might be worth it for the two driver tubes? Otherwise I was thinking Gold Lions in the drivers and maybe Mullards in the 4 other? No PS Vane at Upscale but I’ll take a look around. Appreciate the info!
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I think the reason Watford are pushing the Philips is that there was a certain amount of cross over and collaboration between them and Mullard and there’s still more of them to be found because they don’t have the “name”.

On your one don’t bother rolling the 12au7 to PS Vane because that’s actually your stock if your model is post mid 2021 after shuangang shut down and so the base of your bigger tubes isn’t red.
 
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Slimwhit33 said:
Sweet! I saw a pair of Mahi Mahi monos for sale somewhere while I was amp shopping. Really cool looking gear….

Any thoughts on how the Stingray compares to your old PL? Biggest similarities and differences?
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I’ve actually been giving this a lot of thought. Funny you should mention the Mahis the Stingray is essentially a pair of Mahis in one chassis fronted by a passive preamp-basically a chip volume control and an input selector.

The weird shape of the Stingray chassis is on purpose-it gives the shortest signal path and a minimum of wiring inside the unit.

I know that Kevin Deal makes a big deal about the Blue Velvet volume control in the PL product. The first generation Stingray used the same thing. Manley went a step farther that they would disassemble and measure them and reassemble the parts from all the controls to get the tightest channel matching possible. Like left from control 1 and right from control 30 or whatever. An electronic volume control allows even tighter tolerances as well as other features, for example volume matching between inputs.

Deal also sells their adaptive auto bias pretty hard. Setting output bias manually is super easy and only takes a few minutes.

Ditto the relay input selector which the Manley has as did my NAD line stage. I agree with him here and wouldn’t buy something without it.

Tube life with the PL was an actually pretty bad. I replaced far more output tubes with the PL than the JoLida gear I’ve owned in the past. I expect longer tube life with the Manley. Remember the vast majority of their gear is sold and used for pro audio- hi fi is a small part of their business. The pro guys can’t have their gear go down. In their case, time truly is money.

Sound quality differences are pretty substantial. The bass quantity on the PL is better, but the bass quality on the Manley smokes it- textures are the order of the day. Think of hot sauce. Some are hot for the sake of being hot- that’s the PL. Others are spicy but are complex, spicy but full of flavor. That’s the Manley. In fact, they would pretty much describe the Manley all the way from bottom to top. The Manley doesn’t have the solidity of the PL, but then the PL can’t touch the NAD C-298 when it comes to bass slam and control. Those who need that could add stereo subs to the Manley via its stereo subwoofer outputs.

Soundstage and imaging are far better with the Manley as well. Night and day. As it should be- the Manley retails for an eye watering $8200 now. I bought mine preowned in mint condition for less than a new PL 300 integrated- so a no brainer.

How much do I like it? I’ll keep it indefinitely unless I come across a preowned deal on a Steelhead RC and a pair of Mahi power amps.
 
I wasn’t sure if I had missed a previous write up or not..lol.

Really glad to hear that you are enjoying the Manley. And the fact that it’s better than you remember the PL being, when you had lavished such praise on the PL while you had it, has to be satisfying.

I saw that you rolled some tubes already.. lot of tubes in that machine! Hopefully you get good life out of them.. People seem to make a big deal out of the biasing, but I had no issues doing it for the first time on my previous Decware amp. Once you figure it out it’s a breeze. I wouldn’t hesitate to get tube gear that needed to be biased.

The Mahi Mahi’s I saw were on USAM. $3500. Not bad.

Buying used is the way to go for me at this point. I got the 1 yr old EVO 300 Pre for 50% off retail, and the amp I just bought is 4 yrs old and I got it for 60% off retail. I suppose there are some risks buying used, but at this point the pluses have far outweighed the minuses in practice.

Look forward to seeing a night pic when you have a chance! Throw it in the new gear thread! Good way to kick it off!
 
Slimwhit33 said:
How’s it playing with the Fortes? It’s gotta be a great combo. Anything stand out in comparison to the C298/ Forte combo?
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It’s a great combo. Once I changed the input and driver tubes to Russian Electroharmonix, I think I’m dialed in.

I think it’s a great combo with the Fortes. The midrange and highs are to die for. Perfect. Bass is deep but doesn’t call attention to itself like it did with the NAD. It’s just super natural and balanced. Plenty of detail without being analytical. The headphone section is head and shoulders above the NAD- the NAD had a dedicated headphone amp built into the C165BEE. The Manley had the headphone output tapped straight off the output transformers.

I’ve owned a ton of amplifiers through the years. The Manley is easily my favorite.
 
Hello
Not sure if I should post this here or in the other thread:

There's a hum that comes up/becomes noticeable at louder volumes on my Jolida (about 33% of the way up).
It's coming from my Vincent Pho8, no hum on the other inputs, no hum if I disconnect the Pho8.
If I disconnect the turntable from the Pho8 the hum becomes louder.
I'll try to put new cables from the Pho to the Jolida next, but is there anything else I should be looking at?

Thanks!
 
gafacaode said:
Hello
Not sure if I should post this here or in the other thread:

There's a hum that comes up/becomes noticeable at louder volumes on my Jolida (about 33% of the way up).
It's coming from my Vincent Pho8, no hum on the other inputs, no hum if I disconnect the Pho8.
If I disconnect the turntable from the Pho8 the hum becomes louder.
I'll try to put new cables from the Pho to the Jolida next, but is there anything else I should be looking at?

Thanks!
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The first thing is to make sure the power supply from the Vincent is as far away from the actual phono amplifier chassis. Don’t stack them.

Also make sure the JoLida isn’t placed right next to your turntable. Don’t place the phono stage chassis next to the JoLida either.
 
HiFi Guy said:
The first thing is to make sure the power supply from the Vincent is as far away from the actual phono amplifier chassis. Don’t stack them.

Also make sure the JoLida isn’t placed right next to your turntable. Don’t place the phono stage chassis next to the JoLida either.
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Yup, they're apart (as far as the cable between them allows) but the Vicent power supply part is kinda close to the Jolida.
The Jolida isn't next to my turntable, but they're on the same surface, both are on isolation feet.
When I get home I'll take a picture of the current setup.
Thanks!
 
HiFi Guy said:
I’ve actually been giving this a lot of thought. Funny you should mention the Mahis the Stingray is essentially a pair of Mahis in one chassis fronted by a passive preamp-basically a chip volume control and an input selector.

The weird shape of the Stingray chassis is on purpose-it gives the shortest signal path and a minimum of wiring inside the unit.

I know that Kevin Deal makes a big deal about the Blue Velvet volume control in the PL product. The first generation Stingray used the same thing. Manley went a step farther that they would disassemble and measure them and reassemble the parts from all the controls to get the tightest channel matching possible. Like left from control 1 and right from control 30 or whatever. An electronic volume control allows even tighter tolerances as well as other features, for example volume matching between inputs.

Deal also sells their adaptive auto bias pretty hard. Setting output bias manually is super easy and only takes a few minutes.

Ditto the relay input selector which the Manley has as did my NAD line stage. I agree with him here and wouldn’t buy something without it.

Tube life with the PL was an actually pretty bad. I replaced far more output tubes with the PL than the JoLida gear I’ve owned in the past. I expect longer tube life with the Manley. Remember the vast majority of their gear is sold and used for pro audio- hi fi is a small part of their business. The pro guys can’t have their gear go down. In their case, time truly is money.

Sound quality differences are pretty substantial. The bass quantity on the PL is better, but the bass quality on the Manley smokes it- textures are the order of the day. Think of hot sauce. Some are hot for the sake of being hot- that’s the PL. Others are spicy but are complex, spicy but full of flavor. That’s the Manley. In fact, they would pretty much describe the Manley all the way from bottom to top. The Manley doesn’t have the solidity of the PL, but then the PL can’t touch the NAD C-298 when it comes to bass slam and control. Those who need that could add stereo subs to the Manley via its stereo subwoofer outputs.

Soundstage and imaging are far better with the Manley as well. Night and day. As it should be- the Manley retails for an eye watering $8200 now. I bought mine preowned in mint condition for less than a new PL 300 integrated- so a no brainer.

How much do I like it? I’ll keep it indefinitely unless I come across a preowned deal on a Steelhead RC and a pair of Mahi power amps.
Click to expand...
I dialed it in even more: the bass has fleshed out substantially by switching to the Ortofon Quintet Black S. Oddly enough, I had set it up initially with the MoFi Geo Disc. When I checked the alignment with my arc protractor, the alignment was perfect at all points.

I may keep an eye out for an Ortofon Cadenza Red……
 
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