Turntable more expensive than the cart VS Cart more expensive than the turntable

[AnthonyI]

Right off the bat, my disclaimer that I don't think cost reflects quality, there are "bang for your buck" products and ultimately it's up to you.

That said, I watched a YouTube video where they strapped a $17k cart on a $1300 TT to "prove" it sounded great. Then made the comment that what you should aim for, based on a Technics 1500 and 1200G, would be a cart in the $800 range for the 1500 and $1800 for the 1200.



In my opinion there are carts that hit way above their price points, I'll use the Hana SL as an example, and I know there are others, all that said, where do you land on this comparison? I think a better turntable can make better use of a wider variety/price points, and just from a common sense stance, would never spend X times more on a cartridge, than the turntable I'm using.

So who's the first to buy a Hana to toss on an LP60? Anyway, this convo has come up on and off for me, so I thought it would be an interesting conversation to be had with everyone.

 

[kvetcha]

I’m running a Zephyr MIMC Star ES on a Schiit Sol.

 

[HiFi Guy]

A cheaper cartridge on a more expensive turntable for me. You may get to hear that the less expensive cartridge is better than you thought.

 

[Nee Lewman]

Right off the bat, my disclaimer that I don't think cost reflects quality, there are "bang for your buck" products and ultimately it's up to you.

That said, I watched a YouTube video where they strapped a $17k cart on a $1300 TT to "prove" it sounded great. Then made the comment that what you should aim for, based on a Technics 1500 and 1200G, would be a cart in the $800 range for the 1500 and $1800 for the 1200.



In my opinion there are carts that hit way above their price points, I'll use the Hana SL as an example, and I know there are others, all that said, where do you land on this comparison? I think a better turntable can make better use of a wider variety/price points, and just from a common sense stance, would never spend X times more on a cartridge, than the turntable I'm using.

So who's the first to buy a Hana to toss on an LP60? Anyway, this convo has come up on and off for me, so I thought it would be an interesting conversation to be had with everyone.

You can’t put a Hana on a lp60…

 

[Nee Lewman]

@AnthonyI it has a use replaceable stylus but the cart is part of the tonearm.

 

[AnthonyI]

So who's the first to buy a Hana to toss on an LP60?

@AnthonyI it has a use replaceable stylus but the cart is part of the tonearm.

 

[Nee Lewman]

I mean I knew the post was but I didn’t know if you understood it wasn’t even possible.

 

[Bsdmr2]

A great cart isn’t going to save a sub-par turntable. And a great turntable is going to be lost without a good phono stage. Get the basics right first and then dial in the cart.

 

[Joe Mac]

A great cart isn’t going to save a sub-par turntable. And a great turntable is going to be lost without a good phono stage. Get the basics right first and then dial in the cart.

There is surprisingly more stretch in a table in the €500-700 range than you’d imagine, particularly if you’ve done some pretty simple upgrades to it first. Isolation, upgraded platter/sub-platter etc,

I’ve not gone quite that far but a Hana SL, worth €200 more than the base table, absolutely sung on my project and was an appreciable step up from MMs, even the much loved Grado Opus.

There are definitely limits though.

 

[Bsdmr2]

There is surprisingly more stretch in a table in the €500-700 range than you’d imagine, particularly if you’ve done some pretty simple upgrades to it first. Isolation, upgraded platter/sub-platter etc,

I’ve not gone quite that far but a Hana SL, worth €200 more than the base table, absolutely sung on my project and was an appreciable step up from MMs, even the much loved Grado Opus.

There are definitely limits though.

Yes definitely limits, and at the end of the day different approaches will work for different people and situations. It’s good that everyone has options and can mix and match to suit.

At the moment I’m holding off moving to a multi k MC cart because I’m worried about the life of the stylus with young kids in the house and even though they are super careful near the hifi stand there is always the risk of a knock and then bye bye £. So I’m probably at the other end of this scale as my cart is ‘only’ £600 and so less than a tenth of the value of the rest of the table / power supply. It could be better but it still sounds great to my ears.

 

[Nee Lewman]

Yes definitely limits, and at the end of the day different approaches will work for different people and situations. It’s good that everyone has options and can mix and match to suit.

At the moment I’m holding off moving to a multi k MC cart because I’m worried about the life of the stylus with young kids in the house and even though they are super careful near the hifi stand there is always the risk of a knock and then bye bye £. So I’m probably at the other end of this scale as my cart is ‘only’ £600 and so less than a tenth of the value of the rest of the table / power supply. It could be better but it still sounds great to my ears.

Wall mounting.

 

[HiFi Guy]

There is surprisingly more stretch in a table in the €500-700 range than you’d imagine, particularly if you’ve done some pretty simple upgrades to it first. Isolation, upgraded platter/sub-platter etc,

I’ve not gone quite that far but a Hana SL, worth €200 more than the base table, absolutely sung on my project and was an appreciable step up from MMs, even the much loved Grado Opus.

There are definitely limits though.

And the Grado Green3 kills on the Uturn Theory. It deserves a “better” cartridge, but for the foreseeable future, the Grado stays put. They should add the Grado as an option for those who don’t want an Ortofon 2m.

 

[LiamGallaghersBucketHat]

My turntable will always be more than the cart that I run.

 

[folsom_lives]

And the Grado Green3 kills on the Uturn Theory. It deserves a “better” cartridge, but for the foreseeable future, the Grado stays put. They should add the Grado as an option for those who don’t want an Ortofon 2m.

I asked this question from the outset and even asked if they could give me a "no cart" option.

I have started looking at the Hana SL though...

 

[HiFi Guy]

I’ll bet the Hana will be a great match for the Theory arm.

 

[Bsdmr2]

Wall mounting.

An aesthetic and wouldn’t actually fix the risk in our scenario as the rack is next to the door to the front snug, so the wall mount would suffer the same risk.

The best option is new house and dedicated listening room with biometric entry and a shark pit should any child make it through.

 

[mindhead1]

My experience is limited, but so far in my TT journey upgrading my phon0 preamps has had the biggest impact on sound improvement.

I haven't changed the MasterTracker that came with my UltraDeck yet so can't speak to improvement there. I did upgrade the cart on my Project DC Evo, Rainier to Moonstone, and noticed an improvement, but again nothing as dramatic is upgrading my phono preamps (Project Phono Box S2 to Darlington Labs MP7B).

 

[Bob from Florida]

Right off the bat, my disclaimer that I don't think cost reflects quality, there are "bang for your buck" products and ultimately it's up to you.

That said, I watched a YouTube video where they strapped a $17k cart on a $1300 TT to "prove" it sounded great. Then made the comment that what you should aim for, based on a Technics 1500 and 1200G, would be a cart in the $800 range for the 1500 and $1800 for the 1200.



In my opinion there are carts that hit way above their price points, I'll use the Hana SL as an example, and I know there are others, all that said, where do you land on this comparison? I think a better turntable can make better use of a wider variety/price points, and just from a common sense stance, would never spend X times more on a cartridge, than the turntable I'm using.

So who's the first to buy a Hana to toss on an LP60? Anyway, this convo has come up on and off for me, so I thought it would be an interesting conversation to be had with everyone.

A buddy of mine had that Goldfinger cartridge in use for 11 years. Then one fine day, he had the carpet cleaned. The next day it was observed the cantilever was missing..... It was replaced with a Hana Red at < 1/4 the price. When I mounted the Red I judged it as good or better than the Goldfinger. Both out of my budget, but I vote turntable and arm first before cartridge. Any guides to "must spend X $" are simply BS to me. On a good table/arm astonishingly good results are possible with inexpensive cartridges.

 

[dansomeone]

Herb Reichert tried a bunch of budget cartridges on an expensive deck and came to this conclusion:
"the difference between a $100 cartridge and a $10,000 cartridge is not nearly as big as I previously imagined. Also, the difference between a $1000 turntable and a $10,000 turntable is much greater than I thought it was."

Gramophone Dreams #44: Audio-Technica, Goldring, LP Gear phono cartridges

Someone once asked me, "If I buy your $90,000, 25W amplifier, what will I get that I am not getting with my $2000, 200W amplifier?" My answer was simple: "Goosebumps, tears, and smirking." Great, well-tuned audio systems, at all price levels, give their owners less of the annoying and...

www.stereophile.com

 

[SnowmaNick]

I’m in the table/arm then cart category, but that’s assuming you buy everything new. I’m nervous buying used carts, but I’m fine buying a table that’s used from a reputable seller. So, you could be looking at a deck that you picked up for 50-60% of MSRP, and a new cart that costs more than the table.

That aside, if you add in that carts are wear and tear items that have a finite lifespan before needing a retip (and/or suspension rebuild), but a well cared for table can last decades. It seems (to me) to be more prudent to invest more in the more durable products than the consumable ones.