boba_fun
New Member
It's not a carbon copy, but there are a definately few guitar riffs with Annie's pop and tone. Her influence ain't nothin. But I totally agree the critique is overblown.
Vinyl Me Please Essentials
- Thread starter Captainfog
- Start date
MadLucas
Well-Known Member
I loved the album, and agree that it doesn't sound like St. Vincent... in terms of songs; production value, yeah, definitely hear it.
But it also doesn't really sound like S-K. It sounds like a band that was heavily influenced by S-K that just happens to also have a few synths lying around.
Not necessarily a bad thing. Let's put it this way: if this album had come out under a different name, people would be heralding it as one of the best releases of the year. I worry that everything surrounding Janet's departure will forever be a cloud over an otherwise great album.
[To be fair, though, Janet is wayyyyyyyyyyyyy underused as a musician on these songs and if this new sound is for keeps, I get why she left. If I had spent album after album hammering and providing Bonham-esque parts and then was reduced to a human-drum-machine, I'd leave too.]
hlaveta
Well-Known Member
Yeah. Janet's drumming was a revelation for me. I love Corin and Carrie both, but it was Janet massacring her kit that really made me a SK fan. She barely feels present on this new record. I enjoyed my first listen... It's a different sound... I like it... But if I had my druthers, I would immerse myself in The Woods or Dig Me Out, et al.
chrb98
Active Member
And even if it is, is "A Sleater-Kinney album that sorta sounds like St Vincent" REALLY the terrible thing that so many people make it out to be? St Vincent is one of the most critically acclaimed indie acts of the past decade, yet it seems like a lot of people turned on her all of the sudden for... her last album not being quite as good as the ones prior?
radiodead
Well-Known Member
That’s also an opinion I can’t get behind, MASSEDUCTION is better than S/T. No question. I prefer it to Actor but would be open to a difference of opinion.
1. Strange Mercy
2. MASSEDUCTION
3. Actor
4. S/T
5. Marry Me
chrb98
Active Member
And that's the thing, is that even though Masseduction was sorta viewed by some as her worst album so far, it's not like it was a massive flop, and a lot of people don't see it as her worst; the reviews and fan consensus were still mostly positive, and I could totally see why people would still rank it higher than albums like her self-titled and Marry Me (though better than Actor I can't quite wrap my head around
). It just seems like there's been a lot of vitriol directed towards her from the indie scene recently for very flimsy reasons, and all of a sudden people are hesitant to talk about how fucking rad she isTheThinWhiteDuke
Well-Known Member
Yes, because one thing is not like the other. Imagine if Tool appeared and said their new album had actually been produced by Justin Vernon. Then it drops and it sounds just like a Bon Iver record- why would that be terrible? Is Vernon not one of the most critically acclaimed indie acts of the past decade?
Yes, it would be terrible because Tool have their own important and solidified musical voice and they do not need to conform it to the sound of a younger, more recently-successful artist. They don't need a "new formula for a new generation". They are icons. SK had a chance to show Gen Z that girls with loud guitars can be great- they didn't need to make Annie's follow up LP.
Murfocakes
custom title approved by jamieanderson1968
I’m sort of excited by the idea of a Justin Vernon produced Tool album. I get your point but if the artist hunts down the producer they are looking some of the sound, Ric Ocasek gives you a nice bouncy Cars sound, Brian Eno sticks needles in the camel’s eyes, Annie Clark makes future pop. But it is (in most cases) the artists choice because they want a piece of their sound in order to expose an unseen characteristic of their own.
radiodead
Well-Known Member
Except the new SK doesn’t sound anything like St. Vincent. Small details sure, but if it wasn’t produced by Annie Clark it would a minor influence that people reached for. It’s low hanging fruit, and honestly the whole discourse is pretty sexist.
debianlinux
Well-Known Member
Wait, what makes it sexist?
TheThinWhiteDuke
Well-Known Member
Speaking of reaching
TenderLovingKiller®
Well-Known Member
As a recovering/relapsed Dave Matthews Band fan I remember when they scrapped their Steve Lillywhite followup To “Before These Crowded Streets” and instead decided to go with “Jagged Little Pill” producer Glenn Ballard. His fanbase hated “Everyday” soooo much and primarily held Ballard to blame for their disappointment. Another example would be Fiona Apple’s “Extraordinary Machine” many much prefer the leaked Jon Brion produced version to the official released. Larger point being lots of people hold the producer in account (regardless of sex) when their is a change in sound. Their is definitely sexism at play within the music industry at large and (though it’s slowly improving) females especially in the role of producer is greatly underrepresented but I don’t necessarily think the reason people are disappointed in the production of the new S-K album are doing it from of place of sexism. Their sound is different and their drummer quit the band. I would imagine fans would have blamed Justin Vernon if he had produced this record (rightly or wrongly) too for the shift in their style (rightly or wrongly). Producer are any easy scapegoat for loyal fans especially when they are new to the band.
chrb98
Active Member
Tool and Justin Vernon are practically as far apart as you can get, musically. I get your point, but SK and SV are, all things considered, very close on the musical spectrum, and whereas a Bon Iver/Tool mashup would sound completely out of place, a Sleater-Kinney and St. Vincent combination meshes very well, even if the end results weren’t loved by some.
And I don’t know, I just strongly disagree with this idea that The Center Won’t Hold sounds like a St. Vincent album, especially that it sounds more like that than a SK album. A LOT of SK’s signature sound is still here, I’m fairly sure they wrote the bulk of these songs by themselves, with Annie mainly handling the in-studio production and having some tweaks and occasional input. If we wanna talk soundscapes, production technique, etc. sure, this has a fair bit in common with St. Vincent’s work on her own albums. But when you look at the songwriting (the melodies, the lyrics, the structuring, etc.), this is, at least in my opinion, undeniably Sleater-Kinney at the core. I could maybe see someone not seeing this if they’re ONLY looking at the earlier days of the band and stuck in that “this is a riot grrrl band through and through, nothing else” mentality, but when you compare their previous two albums to this one, the similarities in songwriting is glaring
TheThinWhiteDuke
Well-Known Member
Triggered.
I still have my Lilywhite Sessions demo CD and I do mean NOT the watered down Busted Stuff as I'm sure you do too lol.
TheThinWhiteDuke
Well-Known Member
Yeah I was being tongue in cheek, I picked those two for a reason.
TenderLovingKiller®
Well-Known Member
Yes. Yes I do.
LiamGallaghersBucketHat
Go on, geezer.
I’m enjoying the DMB drops
tonythegamer
Well-Known Member
The Center Won't Hold thoughts:
I think I'm one of the main voices on the forum saying The Center Won't Hold is not a good album. It's just not. It's not even the fact that it's a departure from their original sound that bugs me, but more that the songs feel underdeveloped. Underwritten. Like they weren't thought out to the end.
It pains me how bored I was listening to a lot of these songs. It seems like they just made really bland industrial pop and didn’t think if that would fly over well with their fans.
Ruins, Love, and The Future is Here are just flat out awful. Reach Out, The Dog/The Body, and Broken are so forgettable and bland. The Center Won’t Hold, Hurry On Home, Can I Go On, Restless, and Bad Dance are the only songs I enjoy.
I'm okay with SK taking on a more direct pop sound, as I've always felt there were pop elements in their music from the beginning, but this was not the way to do it.
4/10 for The Center Won't Hold
currently trying to sell the VMP record I got of it elsewhere
I think I'm one of the main voices on the forum saying The Center Won't Hold is not a good album. It's just not. It's not even the fact that it's a departure from their original sound that bugs me, but more that the songs feel underdeveloped. Underwritten. Like they weren't thought out to the end.
It pains me how bored I was listening to a lot of these songs. It seems like they just made really bland industrial pop and didn’t think if that would fly over well with their fans.
Ruins, Love, and The Future is Here are just flat out awful. Reach Out, The Dog/The Body, and Broken are so forgettable and bland. The Center Won’t Hold, Hurry On Home, Can I Go On, Restless, and Bad Dance are the only songs I enjoy.
I'm okay with SK taking on a more direct pop sound, as I've always felt there were pop elements in their music from the beginning, but this was not the way to do it.
4/10 for The Center Won't Hold
currently trying to sell the VMP record I got of it elsewhere
