Kanye

Indymisanthrope said:
He's doing it wrong. Kanye's spiritual change is all about how great it makes Kanye, not about how it gives Kanye perspective on the things that are greater than him.
Jesus is King, but Kanye is the greatest artist who ever lived.
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The number one rule of Kanye is that Kanye doesn't care about anything as much as Kanye. I've always been fine with that.
 
Indymisanthrope said:
I also think a lot of the eye-rolling isn't necessarily because of his affinity for Trump at this point, but that touring his new religion around places like Howard smells like a cynical buy-back of fans he may have alienated with his earlier behavior.
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I mean one of his first singles ever was Jesus Walks and hes had themes of religion throughout his career, so I have a hard time saying this is his new religion. This is just the first time hes really doubled down on it, and yes part of me rolls my eyes at that but I also roll my eyes at all religions. I've just seen more negative comments on the internet today (not necessarily here) with the word Trump in them than actual talk about the music and I just dont get it.
 
This album feels like a sketchbook, even more so than Ye did.
It feels like his output has steadily deteriorated since (I'd even say starting with) TLOP. I liked that album's fluid nature, the way the songs flowed into one another, and some would be light and sketchy, while others were layered and maximalist. I just don't feel any hooks in any of the songs; they're all rudimentary beats with some verses about how much he loves god. And I know he's had religious themes in his music since the jump, but I have so much trouble taking him seriously when he's been so destructive and self-aggrandizing so recently, and his lyrics up to this point have felt like him trying to outdo himself in saying the most shocking thing possible. It feels more like he's trying to convince himself he's a good christian more than he actually has something to say about it.

For the longest time, my Kanye fandom has necessitated apologizing for or out-right ignoring the guy's public persona, but it's getting harder and harder. I used to say "well at least the music's good," but I'm just not feeling it anymore with this one.
 
Bull Shannon said:
This album feels like a sketchbook, even more so than Ye did.
It feels like his output has steadily deteriorated since (I'd even say starting with) TLOP. I liked that album's fluid nature, the way the songs flowed into one another, and some would be light and sketchy, while others were layered and maximalist. I just don't feel any hooks in any of the songs; they're all rudimentary beats with some verses about how much he loves god. And I know he's had religious themes in his music since the jump, but I have so much trouble taking him seriously when he's been so destructive and self-aggrandizing so recently, and his lyrics up to this point have felt like him trying to outdo himself in saying the most shocking thing possible. It feels more like he's trying to convince himself he's a good christian more than he actually has something to say about it.

For the longest time, my Kanye fandom has necessitated apologizing for or out-right ignoring the guy's public persona, but it's getting harder and harder. I used to say "well at least the music's good," but I'm just not feeling it anymore with this one.
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I think TLOP was his last really solid overall album. I still think the production on this album is pretty solid and sounds very Kanye and a progression that he would make. I agree to disagree with your assessment of it being rudimentary beats--I can't really think of any other rap albums that sound anything like this which I dig. The beats aren't very predictable (see the sax break and no drums until the very end of Use This Gospel). Lyrically, it's bland but a lot of Ye's albums are for me and always have been. He also really hasn't tried to make albums with radio friendly singles or "hits" in quite a long time so it's no surprise to me that there aren't a ton of catchy hooks (a bunch of songs on this album don't even have hooks it seems). I also totally get why people don't like this album or his last few. I just personally like the production on a lot of the tracks which I think has always been Ye's strong suit. He's always doing some interesting things and trying to make his own sound. Sometimes it REALLY works. Other times it doesn't.

It's going to be interesting to see how this album is seen years from now. I remember that 808s was panned by so many people when it came out and then a few years later, every rap song on the radio sounded like it.

As for apologizing for being a fan of his, there's no need to. I think you can like his music and still think he's a douche and flawed human. The art vs artist argument gets really slippery with probably 95% of art out there. I think there's a very big difference between thinking he has good music and agreeing with his stances on other things. I totally understand if people don't want to support him because of his beliefs on a number of topics, politically or otherwise. I just don't think it's entirely fair to judge people for continuing to listen to his music despite his public persona (not saying you are doing this but I know plenty of people who do).
 
I was not interested in a religious Kanye album, but here I am listening to it. Yeah, it just doesn't feel that interesting, creative, or necessary. I don't like religious heavy-handedness in songs, so an entire album of it is hard for me to enjoy. But even setting that aside, it just feels like the music Kanye's been making these days is so...I don't know...not good? Like his best days are behind him. With TLOP, then Ye, and now this...I just am not down with any of it. So many of these songs sound like barely scratching the surface. The beats/production are okay, but that's not enough, and even then none of it is that remarkable.
 
Bennnnn said:
I was not interested in a religious Kanye album, but here I am listening to it. Yeah, it just doesn't feel that interesting, creative, or necessary. I don't like religious heavy-handedness in songs, so an entire album of it is hard for me to enjoy. But even setting that aside, it just feels like the music Kanye's been making these days is so...I don't know...not good? Like his best days are behind him. With TLOP, then Ye, and now this...I just am not down with any of it. So many of these songs sound like barely scratching the surface. The beats/production are okay, but that's not enough, and even then none of it is that remarkable.
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I didn't know so many people disliked TLOP to be honest. For me, he is somewhat consistently making records that don't sound like any other "rap" music out there which I at least find interesting. And a lot of his albums grow on me. What do you consider to be Ye's last good album/what's your favorite of his?
 
MikeH said:
I didn't know so many people disliked TLOP to be honest. For me, he is somewhat consistently making records that don't sound like any other "rap" music out there which I at least find interesting. And a lot of his albums grow on me. What do you consider to be Ye's last good album/what's your favorite of his?
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TLOP to me was just kind of messy and I don’t know...nothing really I want to come back to save for a few tracks here and there. Ye was even messier and uninspired and again felt a little like its unfinished, much like Jesus Is King. This one though feels even more unfinished and to make it worse, there’s so much religion:

Yeezus was the last one I enjoyed, and everything before that is fair game as being my favorite. I’ve found myself listening to 808s more these days. But its all pretty good. Yeezus I found many seem to not like but I don’t know...it worked for me, especially the production.
 
MikeH said:
I think TLOP was his last really solid overall album. I still think the production on this album is pretty solid and sounds very Kanye and a progression that he would make. I agree to disagree with your assessment of it being rudimentary beats--I can't really think of any other rap albums that sound anything like this which I dig. The beats aren't very predictable (see the sax break and no drums until the very end of Use This Gospel). Lyrically, it's bland but a lot of Ye's albums are for me and always have been. He also really hasn't tried to make albums with radio friendly singles or "hits" in quite a long time so it's no surprise to me that there aren't a ton of catchy hooks (a bunch of songs on this album don't even have hooks it seems). I also totally get why people don't like this album or his last few. I just personally like the production on a lot of the tracks which I think has always been Ye's strong suit. He's always doing some interesting things and trying to make his own sound. Sometimes it REALLY works. Other times it doesn't.

It's going to be interesting to see how this album is seen years from now. I remember that 808s was panned by so many people when it came out and then a few years later, every rap song on the radio sounded like it.

As for apologizing for being a fan of his, there's no need to. I think you can like his music and still think he's a douche and flawed human. The art vs artist argument gets really slippery with probably 95% of art out there. I think there's a very big difference between thinking he has good music and agreeing with his stances on other things. I totally understand if people don't want to support him because of his beliefs on a number of topics, politically or otherwise. I just don't think it's entirely fair to judge people for continuing to listen to his music despite his public persona (not saying you are doing this but I know plenty of people who do).
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I get you, and I feel a lot of what you're saying. I guess my complaint isn't simply the lack of hooks; Pablo had plenty of digressions and hookless tracks I still enjoyed quite a bit. My favorite track on Pablo is Pt 2, which is literally a slew of rhymes and the Panda sample. I just don't hear anything on Jesus which wrinkles my brain in the same way, and none of the songs appears to have a thesis or subject beyond "GOD IS THE BEST." There's no exploration, no thought.

As for whether or not it's "okay" to like Kanye, I definitely don't mean that I feel I'm disallowed to like him; I just mean that it's been harder for me to wave off his public behavior and persona, and the recent output has lacked the heights that allowed me to think "regardless of what that guy's doing on his own time, this stuff *slaps*." In the past, I'd meet his various shitshows with "if he's getting this nutty, the next album must be awesome." That's increasingly turned into "if he's pulling this shit, the next ablum better be good," and most recently "there's no way this means the next album is going to be good." It's not so much like I feel I have to apologize to others for my fandom; it's me feeling less rewarded for my patience with him.
 
🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔
Mhmmm... mhmmmm.... okay.

I persa my think it’s a solid album. Not his best, but a solid one. He’s still the same Kanye and you can hear the influences of past albums in it. Yes, Closed on Sunday is cheesy, but songs such as Selah, Follow God, God Is, and Use This Gospel go hard. And there’s a moment in every album that’s cringeworthy and cheesy of his... yes, even MBDTF
@Jonathan Y stated earlier this is an album that will divide people only because of his theme. This ain’t the same Kanye that’s been in the ‘sunken’ place or the ‘in your face’ Kanye as before. This is a joyful, hopeful, and praising album/Kanye.
 
I do agree that it’s not thought provoking, as he’s just stating his beliefs and emotions. I feel like it’s an attention grabber like and honestly, sharing the Gospel. He’s being a witness of how God has changed his life.
I do see the comparison to Big Day, but I fully believe that Kanye accomplished what Chance wanted to accomplish.
 
Bull Shannon said:
I get you, and I feel a lot of what you're saying. I guess my complaint isn't simply the lack of hooks; Pablo had plenty of digressions and hookless tracks I still enjoyed quite a bit. My favorite track on Pablo is Pt 2, which is literally a slew of rhymes and the Panda sample. I just don't hear anything on Jesus which wrinkles my brain in the same way, and none of the songs appears to have a thesis or subject beyond "GOD IS THE BEST." There's no exploration, no thought.

As for whether or not it's "okay" to like Kanye, I definitely don't mean that I feel I'm disallowed to like him; I just mean that it's been harder for me to wave off his public behavior and persona, and the recent output has lacked the heights that allowed me to think "regardless of what that guy's doing on his own time, this stuff *slaps*." In the past, I'd meet his various shitshows with "if he's getting this nutty, the next album must be awesome." That's increasingly turned into "if he's pulling this shit, the next ablum better be good," and most recently "there's no way this means the next album is going to be good." It's not so much like I feel I have to apologize to others for my fandom; it's me feeling less rewarded for my patience with him.
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I do really wonder if people will hate it because of the content + his public persona. I think it’s going to be very divisive for that very reason. I’m not religious at all and I find myself liking a lot of the production on it and listening more to that than the lyrical content. It’s typically what I listen to in Kanye albums. His lyrics have been mostly awful or silly the past few records but that has never been why I liked Ye. I also have found that a lot of people stopped liking him once he stopped making traditionally catchy songs. Yeezus and TLOP are somewhat challenging albums to listen to and I do agree that Ye and JIK are less like fully realized albums to me but I still find a bunch of things to like about them.
 
Bennnnn said:
TLOP to me was just kind of messy and I don’t know...nothing really I want to come back to save for a few tracks here and there. Ye was even messier and uninspired and again felt a little like its unfinished, much like Jesus Is King. This one though feels even more unfinished and to make it worse, there’s so much religion:

Yeezus was the last one I enjoyed, and everything before that is fair game as being my favorite. I’ve found myself listening to 808s more these days. But its all pretty good. Yeezus I found many seem to not like but I don’t know...it worked for me, especially the production.
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Oh man. I just truly love TLOP. Ultralight Beams is an all-time album opener for me. Again, lyrically, a lot of it is REALLY stupid. But the production is so impressive on it to me (minus the Mike Dean mixing/mastering). I have revisited 808s too in the past year or two and the album is also really impressive. It's really interesting to see how influential his production has been in rap music. It seems like he is constantly a few years ahead of the curve and then other people catch up. If you heard 808s for the first time today, it wouldn't feel that outdated. I never find his production boring at least. His samples are always pretty inventive (see Two Door Cinema Club as the sample for Use This Gospel). And I can never really say that his songs sound like he is ripping someone off.
 
MikeH said:
I didn't know so many people disliked TLOP to be honest. For me, he is somewhat consistently making records that don't sound like any other "rap" music out there which I at least find interesting. And a lot of his albums grow on me. What do you consider to be Ye's last good album/what's your favorite of his?
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When TLOP first came out I was not a fan of it except for a few songs, but that's changed to really enjoying it except for a few songs. I think that was his last Good solo album (KSG is also Good imo, so that was really the last Good album he worked on), Yeezus was his last great album and MBDTF and College Dropout are his two Great(all timers) albums. Everything else is in the Good to great range except Ye and JiK which are both good, on my bad/fine/good/Good/great/Great scale.
 
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