Equipment Recommendations - The Home For New System and Upgrade Advice

kvetcha said:
iirc you want to check the input sensitivity on your amplifier and try to come in at or under that value to avoid clipping.

You can use this calculator to figure out the math using the output voltage of your cart and the sensitivity of your input to determine ideal gain.

Cartridge Database Tools - Vinyl Engine

www.vinylengine.com www.vinylengine.com

e.g. my amp has a 550mV input sensitivity, so I would have a 5mV cart like the Gold2 at 40db gain to produce a ~500mV output.
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Thanks for sharing that link! I'll need to save that for future reference. Plugging in my numbers I get: 5mv @ 41db = 561mv for 600mv input

I still like the higher gain, and I've not noticed any clipping or other audible issues in doing so. Hypothetically, if I had a preamp with 12db gain, would that play no role whatsoever in this calculation?
 
@Splunders Input sensitivity on your PrimaLuna is 775mV, so 46db is coming in hot. 44db is closer, but 42db would probably be ideal.

Ultimately, your ears are what matter. An extra 12db of gain seems like it would really throw things off, though I'm not sure exactly how the calculation would work.
 
kvetcha said:
@Splunders Input sensitivity on your PrimaLuna is 775mV, so 46db is coming in hot. 44db is closer, but 42db would probably be ideal.

Ultimately, your ears are what matter. An extra 12db of gain seems like it would really throw things off, though I'm not sure exactly how the calculation would work.
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The manual states 600, but I did see other places stating 775, possibly for the premium version. Either way, I'll drop it down a notch and see how that sounds. Am I in danger of damaging anything with the higher gain?
 
Splunders said:
The manual states 600, but I did see other places stating 775, possibly for the premium version. Either way, I'll drop it down a notch and see how that sounds. Am I in danger of damaging anything with the higher gain?
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I believe the input sensitivity rating basically tells you 'if your input is this level or below, you can get the full rated output of the amplifier without clipping or distortion at max volume.' It's likely you weren't noticing anything because your Zus are so efficient you barely need to use more than a few watts to power them.

@HiFi Guy would know better regarding whether it can harm your amp.
 
kvetcha said:
It's likely you weren't noticing anything because your Zus are so efficient you barely need to use more than a few watts to power them.

@HiFi Guy would know better regarding whether it can harm your amp.
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Ahhhhhh, ok. I hadn't realized it was in relation to maxing out the amp, but that makes total sense. No way I'll ever max it out, so I guess it really is left to my preference. Thanks @kvetcha !
 
Ethos99 said:
So I had to try the Grado on the old TT and my initial impression if the prestige 3 is:

Wow! What have I been listening too!?

I changed it with my 2m blue on an ok album, not great pressing, and it seemed warmer but maybe flat.

Thought oh no, this sucks.

Went back to the blue and realized it wasn't bright as much as it was harsh. Put on a different album known for its harshness and bright recording, that never sounded good on the blue, and it was noticably better. Not amazing but definitely better.

Then I realized, in my haste and excitement, I didn't set the tracking force or make sure the cart was perfectly lined up 90° with the album. Set it all up and tried again and holy hell it is warm and detailed at the same time!

Bass is even and pronounced! I get less annoying pops and crackles during soft parts or between songs. (Apparently there's no fixing a fat possom pressing).

I will continue to break it in and critique but so far very happy and impressed!

@HiFi Guy and @Joe Mac , good damn call and I appreciate the guidance. Can't imagine the quality difference with an 8MZ.
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So a couple of weeks in and have an update.

This is a damn fine cartridge and TT combination. I can't believe how much warmer and full of life a good pressing has. I was always tweaking and critiquing my old setup because it just usually wasn't right. Now I don't even bother wiping off every piece of fuzz (3 cats), I just play it and it doesn't have any affect on the sound. A bad pressing is still a bad pressing, however some sub par pressings just need more volume now to sound good.

I probably have 25 or so hours on it now because I just want to play every record I own. The TT is built like a tank so I can walk in front of it and not hear the bump anymore of each step.

Can't thank you guys enough, I am a huge Grado fan now!
 
Ethos99 said:
So a couple of weeks in and have an update.

This is a damn fine cartridge and TT combination. I can't believe how much warmer and full of life a good pressing has. I was always tweaking and critiquing my old setup because it just usually wasn't right. Now I don't even bother wiping off every piece of fuzz (3 cats), I just play it and it doesn't have any affect on the sound. A bad pressing is still a bad pressing, however some sub par pressings just need more volume now to sound good.

I probably have 25 or so hours on it now because I just want to play every record I own. The TT is built like a tank so I can walk in front of it and not hear the bump anymore of each step.

Can't thank you guys enough, I am a huge Grado fan now!
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Awesome! That table is also quite responsive to tweaks and there are a few solid upgrades for it down the line with low hanging fruit like the KAB tonearm damper, the Isonoe feet and upgraded headshells. There’s plenty of mileage in it for you! For now though it’s great to hear that you're enjoying it so much!
 
Splunders said:
That's interesting. Since I have a passive preamp, i.e. no gain, should I consider upping my gain on my phono pre as a result? I've played around with it before and currently running my Grado Gold2 at 46db, but have also tried 40 and 44db. 40db sounded a little lifeless and I'm enjoying the livelier 46db quite a bit. I know my ears are the only thing that matters of course, but is there a school of thought re phono gain with a passive pre?
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Hi all:. First thank you so much for all the responses. As we approach lock down here in Boston balancing the day has been tough.

I just adjusted the gain to 46db (keeping output at the factory 47) -- fyi, Musical Surroundings Nova III -- and there's a difference that seems better, closer to the richness and sacrificing none of the detail. As per before , I'm going through a not great amp but the rest of the line is getting better. A challenge is that so much is new in not sure if I'm be impatient....

46db seems better. I might try 50... But I'll let this sit for a bit. Thank you.

Virtual communities are a funny thing. Thank you to all of you that make this such a real thing.

20200316_204510.jpg
 
HuddieLedbetter said:
Hi all:. First thank you so much for all the responses. As we approach lock down here in Boston balancing the day has been tough.

I just adjusted the gain to 46db (keeping output at the factory 47) -- fyi, Musical Surroundings Nova III -- and there's a difference that seems better, closer to the richness and sacrificing none of the detail. As per before , I'm going through a not great amp but the rest of the line is getting better. A challenge is that so much is new in not sure if I'm be impatient....

46db seems better. I might try 50... But I'll let this sit for a bit. Thank you.

Virtual communities are a funny thing. Thank you to all of you that make this such a real thing.

View attachment 36684
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Richness is an apt term. 40db was just a bit lackluster, but at 46db things come alive more and are fuller and more expansive sounding. Much more satisfying.

Now that I know I won't harm anything in doing so, I'm going to keep ramping up the phono gain. Live with X db for a couple weeks, then move up a setting until it's diminishing returns. If I remember to do so, I'll share where I landed, as well as where things went plop and what that sounded like.

Stay healthy and sane out there everyone. This hobby, and you fine folks on this forum have, and will continue to be a wonderful getaway from it all.
 
Splunders said:
Richness is an apt term. 40db was just a bit lackluster, but at 46db things come alive more and are fuller and more expansive sounding. Much more satisfying.

Now that I know I won't harm anything in doing so, I'm going to keep ramping up the phono gain. Live with X db for a couple weeks, then move up a setting until it's diminishing returns. If I remember to do so, I'll share where I landed, as well as where things went plop and what that sounded like.

Stay healthy and sane out there everyone. This hobby, and you fine folks on this forum have, and will continue to be a wonderful getaway from it all.
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Any reason to do this rather than keep the phono gain lower and turn your amp up higher?
 
I'm looking to upgrade from a U-turn special to a better table. I went from the Blue 2M to a Black and love the sound, but can't get the inner grove distortion out of my setup since. I'm working to resolve, but am realizing the limited options I have to tweak the Tonearm and how fiddly it is to do so.

I'd like to stay at around 1000$ new/used. I'd like it to play well with the Orto's and I'd like it to be belt. I love simplicity and would prefer easy to use dials for skate VTF and VTA. I would also like something new or relatively new. Not interested in vintage. Thanks.
 
VMPKJ said:
I'm looking to upgrade from a U-turn special to a better table. I went from the Blue 2M to a Black and love the sound, but can't get the inner grove distortion out of my setup since. I'm working to resolve, but am realizing the limited options I have to tweak the Tonearm and how fiddly it is to do so.

I'd like to stay at around 1000$ new/used. I'd like it to play well with the Orto's and I'd like it to be belt. I love simplicity and would prefer easy to use dials for skate VTF and VTA. I would also like something new or relatively new. Not interested in vintage. Thanks.
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Its a great budget to have for a TT, but it's also a weird spot in my opinion. A lot of the recommendations I think will fall into the "slightly better than" category and well under $1000. There aren't earth shattering options in between $500-1000 that are belt driven (IMO). The Pro-Ject - Debut Carbon Esprit ($600) and Fluance RT85 ($500) are both great tables and you might be looking for things like replaceable head shells and "extras" like that to separate one from the other. If you want to push up from there I know there are a couple of Open Box MoFi StudioDecks just over $1k that I think would be a nice "upgrade", I wouldn't be doing my job if I didn't recommend the Pioneer PLX 1000, even though it's a direct drive TT, it is a stellar deck that lists for $700ish, but can be had for less.........but well worth every penny and you wouldn't be lacking for anything from your "simplicity" category.

I'm sure you'll get some other recommendations, conversations and what not...........we live for it :)
 
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Yeah. I wouldn’t mind going just under. It seems like an odd price from what I’m reading. I’m just not sure what’s out there. Is the Fluance really an upgrade over the orbit? I wasn’t sure. Does the pioneer make a lot of noise?

Wouldn’t mind an open box. Thanks.

AnthonyI said:
Its a great budget to have for a TT, but it's also a weird spot in my opinion. A lot of the recommendations I think will fall into the "slightly better than" category and well under $1000. There aren't earth shattering options in between $500-1000 that are belt driven. The Pro-Ject - Debut Carbon Esprit ($600) and Fluance RT85 ($500) are both great tables and you might be looking for things like replaceable head shells and "extras" like that to separate one from the other. If you want to push up from there I know there are a couple of Open Box MoFi StudioDecks just over $1k that I think would be a nice "upgrade", I wouldn't be doing my job if I didn't recommend the Pioneer PLX 1000, even though it's a direct drive TT, it is a stellar deck that lists for $700ish, but can be had for less.........but well worth every penny and you wouldn't be lacking for anything from your "simplicity" category.

I'm sure you'll get some other recommendations, conversations and what not...........we live for it :)
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VMPKJ said:
Yeah. I wouldn’t mind going just under. It seems like an odd price from what I’m reading. I’m just not sure what’s out there. Is the Fluance really an upgrade over the orbit? I wasn’t sure. Does the pioneer make a lot of noise?

Wouldn’t mind an open box. Thanks.
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It is an odd price, if it were me, and I've owned an Orbit, loved it, if I were going to upgrade I wouldn't go to a TT that's in the same pool as the Orbit, give or take a few things, and I do believe the Fluance is a better deck than the Orbit in that price point. Usually the budgets are in that $500 range and those are great options. With $1k, I would push up the ladder as much as you can and get an actual upgrade.

I've had a PLX on my second system for a while now and it's fantastic, dead quiet........there are a few other PLX owners on the site, some very recent who just went through the same process, I'm sure they'll be happy to share......paging @Ethos99 ;)

The open box is a nice option, I do love my MoFi deck :)
 
AnthonyI said:
It is an odd price, if it were me, and I've owned an Orbit, loved it, if I were going to upgrade I wouldn't go to a TT that's in the same pool as the Orbit, give or take a few things, and I do believe the Fluance is a better deck than the Orbit in that price point. Usually the budgets are in that $500 range and those are great options. With $1k, I would push up the ladder as much as you can and get an actual upgrade.

I've had a PLX on my second system for a while now and it's fantastic, dead quiet........there are a few other PLX owners on the site, some very recent who just went through the same process, I'm sure they'll be happy to share......paging @Ethos99 ;)

The open box is a nice option, I do love my MoFi deck :)
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Didn't read back the whole conversation, but the PLX is dead quiet. I used to hear every footstep in the room when I had a record on and now nothing. I can tap the side while a record is playing and no noise. It's built like a tank.

I didn't go with the fluance because it didn't have all the features of the PLX. I prefer the ability to adjust everything easily and was set on direct drive. (I'm an HVAC tech by trade and like to take parts out of the chain that can fail).

Anyway, highly recommend, but if I didn't answer something specific just ask.
 
AnthonyI said:
It is an odd price, if it were me, and I've owned an Orbit, loved it, if I were going to upgrade I wouldn't go to a TT that's in the same pool as the Orbit, give or take a few things, and I do believe the Fluance is a better deck than the Orbit in that price point. Usually the budgets are in that $500 range and those are great options. With $1k, I would push up the ladder as much as you can and get an actual upgrade.

I've had a PLX on my second system for a while now and it's fantastic, dead quiet........there are a few other PLX owners on the site, some very recent who just went through the same process, I'm sure they'll be happy to share......paging @Ethos99 ;)

The open box is a nice option, I do love my MoFi deck :)
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The noise concerns of DD turntables is vastly overblown. Cheap tables are cheap and cheapness announces itself. Quality shines through in its silence.

The PLX is a quality table.
 
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