Equipment Recommendations - The Home For New System and Upgrade Advice

[Bsdmr2]

Isn’t the neo like £350? That’s some ex-demo discount off a £650 table

£236 - dream a little Joe!

but seriously, if you could save say £75-£100 going ex-demo then it’s a worthwhile consideration if that’s the path to follow. Otherwise just stick with the original plan - both routes will bring plenty of enjoyment!

 

[Joe Mac]

I will refer my wife to you when it arrives...

They recently released a 1200 mk7 didn’t they. Maybe that’s a bit easier to sell

 

[Kyuuji]

Been racking the brain and looking around since posting and reading the responses. Still more to do and fully appreciate there's not a bad choice among them, but I get stuck at the choice of chocolate bars in a petrol station so this certainly was something that was always going to make me umm and ahh about it. Honestly for as frustrating as it is I know I would feel worse if I bought one without doing so and it would be moreso on the back of my mind.

re: speed change, it is remove platter, move belt, replace platter. but if you have enough random 45rpm records it can quickly become a genuine annoyance. With some discographies--say, Radiohead--the releases fluctuate between 33 and 45 almost at random, and half the time you'll be ten seconds into the record before you realize it sounds wrong.

A push-button change or external belt is a nice perk.

You might consider the Pro-Ject X1. It has all of the attractive, minimal design of other Pro-Ject tables, but adds push-button speed change, VTA and azimuth adjustment, and a few other nice higher-end features. It's at the high end of your price range, but it does check all the boxes, and will be easier to futz with than the Rega if you ever want to change carts.

yeah on the annoyance I agree with @kvetcha it isn’t the 7” that are the problem, when I’m in a singles mood I’m in a singles mood and I tend to spin a few in a row. It’s more that at this stage I have a lot of 12” albums cut at 45 between fancy MoFi masters, the Radiohead ones and band like Haim who have all their albums at 45. I find that much more of a grind because I don’t necessarily want to tailor album listing to a run of 45s or a run of 33s.

@Djxfactor511 to be honest id always avoid tables with built in phonos like the plague. I’d bet money in the phono built into the amp being better than any built into a table and I’d rely on it for now until a budget for an outboard one is in place.

Fair enough on the aesthetics. With the planar 3 long term they do an upgrade power supply that contains a speed change option, it is quite a lot of money as an upgrade on a table that price though.

http://www.rega.co.uk/neo-turntable-psu.html

And yeah an amp is an amp, some people like to match a brand across their system but so long as your amp has a phono stage (which yours does) you’re gold with a turntable. I’d still be looking at an outboard phono stage as a medium to long term upgrade though.

Definitely. It was hard to type it without it coming across as downplaying it. I was making sure there wasn't an issue around it knocking any of the adjustments askew or whether it wears the belt, anything like that. I can fully appreciate how it would become annoying fast to have to repeatedly switch back and forth if the records you wanted to play happened to differ. Indeed it was a perk that contributed to my selecting the Esprit over the Carbon DC, in addition to the platter savings.

The X1 is a very interesting choice – it seems there's a fair bit less information and discussion around it but I assume that's because it seems to be a much more recent release?

I'm not sure (?) how much benefit I would get from elements like the azimuth adjustment being as new to it all as I am, but it does include other passive elements that seem to be a bump up from the Esprit. It's a little above the Rega Planar 3 so, as with that, a fundamental question would be around how the Pick it S2 MM cartridge supplied is compared to the 2M Blue and Red. Also whether a change to the blue, if recommended, was a simple stylus change as with the Esprit?

It's certainly an attractive choice on first glance, with it not pushing much out from the original plan and featuring elements like the speed switch over the Planar. The latter does still hang on the mind even if just because of the reputation and successive reviews and awards it seems to garner. The issue then being that when the belt change does initially become a bore as my record collection grows, I'll want to purchase the Neo speed box. Which is less than I had thought it could be at ~£250, but it raises the obvious point of if you are willing to chuck in over a third of the turntable price for the speed option would you have been better off spending £900 instead on a turntable of that value. Something that causes my "sensible brakes" to slam on when it comes to a first time turntable itself.

..which leads into:

Check the U.K. dealers for ex-demo P3 and then use the change to get the Neo

Which I appreciate is likely a good option but I really would be only fully comfortable buying new for my first venture into vinyl. Not only because of the anxiety around anything if it does sound off now or in the recent future but also for not wanting to keep scouring to find not only a good price, but a reputable seller. All in all it just lands on being a new buy for me for the first one.

That said, I am really interested to know your thoughts on the Elys2 @Bsdmr2 as that's a current blind spot for me in all of this. With the Esprit I was looking to upgrade to the 2M Blue soon after setup so keen to understand how the cartridges for both the Planar 3 and X1 contend, if at all.

So the shortlist is currently:

• Pro-ject Debut Carbon Esprit w/ Ortofon 2M Blue - Cheaper option but more money for an upgrade or records
• Rega Planar 3 w/ Elys 2 - No easy speed change but ridiculous in its award winning of late
• Pro-ject X1 w/ Pick it S2 MM - Nice upgrade with good elements & speed change but less hype around it compared to the Rega

 

[kvetcha]

Been racking the brain and looking around since posting and reading the responses. Still more to do and fully appreciate there's not a bad choice among them, but I get stuck at the choice of chocolate bars in a petrol station so this certainly was something that was always going to make me umm and ahh about it. Honestly for as frustrating as it is I know I would feel worse if I bought one without doing so and it would be moreso on the back of my mind.



Definitely. It was hard to type it without it coming across as downplaying it. I was making sure there wasn't an issue around it knocking any of the adjustments askew or whether it wears the belt, anything like that. I can fully appreciate how it would become annoying fast to have to repeatedly switch back and forth if the records you wanted to play happened to differ. Indeed it was a perk that contributed to my selecting the Esprit over the Carbon DC, in addition to the platter savings.

The X1 is a very interesting choice – it seems there's a fair bit less information and discussion around it but I assume that's because it seems to be a much more recent release?

I'm not sure (?) how much benefit I would get from elements like the azimuth adjustment being as new to it all as I am, but it does include other passive elements that seem to be a bump up from the Esprit. It's a little above the Rega Planar 3 so, as with that, a fundamental question would be around how the Pick it S2 MM cartridge supplied is compared to the 2M Blue and Red. Also whether a change to the blue, if recommended, was a simple stylus change as with the Esprit?

It's certainly an attractive choice on first glance, with it not pushing much out from the original plan and featuring elements like the speed switch over the Planar. The latter does still hang on the mind even if just because of the reputation and successive reviews and awards it seems to garner. The issue then being that when the belt change does initially become a bore as my record collection grows, I'll want to purchase the Neo speed box. Which is less than I had thought it could be at ~£250, but it raises the obvious point of if you are willing to chuck in over a third of the turntable price for the speed option would you have been better off spending £900 instead on a turntable of that value. Something that causes my "sensible brakes" to slam on when it comes to a first time turntable itself.

..which leads into:

Which I appreciate is likely a good option but I really would be only fully comfortable buying new for my first venture into vinyl. Not only because of the anxiety around anything if it does sound off now or in the recent future but also for not wanting to keep scouring to find not only a good price, but a reputable seller. All in all it just lands on being a new buy for me for the first one.

That said, I am really interested to know your thoughts on the Elys2 @Bsdmr2 as that's a current blind spot for me in all of this. With the Esprit I was looking to upgrade to the 2M Blue soon after setup so keen to understand how the cartridges for both the Planar 3 and X1 contend, if at all.

So the shortlist is currently:

• Pro-ject Debut Carbon Esprit w/ Ortofon 2M Blue - Cheaper option but more money for an upgrade or records
• Rega Planar 3 w/ Elys 2 - No easy speed change but ridiculous in its award winning of late
• Pro-ject X1 w/ Pick it S2 MM - Nice upgrade with good elements & speed change but less hype around it compared to the Rega

The X1 is a very new table, but has been well received. At the very least, I would consider it over the Debut Carbon Esprit, as it’s going to be friendlier to future upgrades. The Rega’s a very nice table, but I’m kind of turned off by how they require shims and new counterweights to mount non-Rega cartridges, while the X1 has all the adjustments necessary to allow you to use whatever you might want down the line.

 

[Joe Mac]

Been racking the brain and looking around since posting and reading the responses. Still more to do and fully appreciate there's not a bad choice among them, but I get stuck at the choice of chocolate bars in a petrol station so this certainly was something that was always going to make me umm and ahh about it. Honestly for as frustrating as it is I know I would feel worse if I bought one without doing so and it would be moreso on the back of my mind.



Definitely. It was hard to type it without it coming across as downplaying it. I was making sure there wasn't an issue around it knocking any of the adjustments askew or whether it wears the belt, anything like that. I can fully appreciate how it would become annoying fast to have to repeatedly switch back and forth if the records you wanted to play happened to differ. Indeed it was a perk that contributed to my selecting the Esprit over the Carbon DC, in addition to the platter savings.

The X1 is a very interesting choice – it seems there's a fair bit less information and discussion around it but I assume that's because it seems to be a much more recent release?

I'm not sure (?) how much benefit I would get from elements like the azimuth adjustment being as new to it all as I am, but it does include other passive elements that seem to be a bump up from the Esprit. It's a little above the Rega Planar 3 so, as with that, a fundamental question would be around how the Pick it S2 MM cartridge supplied is compared to the 2M Blue and Red. Also whether a change to the blue, if recommended, was a simple stylus change as with the Esprit?

It's certainly an attractive choice on first glance, with it not pushing much out from the original plan and featuring elements like the speed switch over the Planar. The latter does still hang on the mind even if just because of the reputation and successive reviews and awards it seems to garner. The issue then being that when the belt change does initially become a bore as my record collection grows, I'll want to purchase the Neo speed box. Which is less than I had thought it could be at ~£250, but it raises the obvious point of if you are willing to chuck in over a third of the turntable price for the speed option would you have been better off spending £900 instead on a turntable of that value. Something that causes my "sensible brakes" to slam on when it comes to a first time turntable itself.

..which leads into:

Which I appreciate is likely a good option but I really would be only fully comfortable buying new for my first venture into vinyl. Not only because of the anxiety around anything if it does sound off now or in the recent future but also for not wanting to keep scouring to find not only a good price, but a reputable seller. All in all it just lands on being a new buy for me for the first one.

That said, I am really interested to know your thoughts on the Elys2 @Bsdmr2 as that's a current blind spot for me in all of this. With the Esprit I was looking to upgrade to the 2M Blue soon after setup so keen to understand how the cartridges for both the Planar 3 and X1 contend, if at all.

So the shortlist is currently:

• Pro-ject Debut Carbon Esprit w/ Ortofon 2M Blue - Cheaper option but more money for an upgrade or records
• Rega Planar 3 w/ Elys 2 - No easy speed change but ridiculous in its award winning of late
• Pro-ject X1 w/ Pick it S2 MM - Nice upgrade with good elements & speed change but less hype around it compared to the Rega

I agree with @kvetcha entirely.

The X1 is a new table in project’s X range. It only came out about 6 months ago so hasn’t garnered too much in the way of reviews they have all been positive. What I can add is that the pick it s2mm is an Ortofon 2m. Edit: it’s a 2m red rebadged for Pro-ject for newer tables because the two companies work so closely together.

As you near £1000 you start to get into some very competitive waters table wise.

 

[Joe Mac]

Been racking the brain and looking around since posting and reading the responses. Still more to do and fully appreciate there's not a bad choice among them, but I get stuck at the choice of chocolate bars in a petrol station so this certainly was something that was always going to make me umm and ahh about it. Honestly for as frustrating as it is I know I would feel worse if I bought one without doing so and it would be moreso on the back of my mind.



Definitely. It was hard to type it without it coming across as downplaying it. I was making sure there wasn't an issue around it knocking any of the adjustments askew or whether it wears the belt, anything like that. I can fully appreciate how it would become annoying fast to have to repeatedly switch back and forth if the records you wanted to play happened to differ. Indeed it was a perk that contributed to my selecting the Esprit over the Carbon DC, in addition to the platter savings.

The X1 is a very interesting choice – it seems there's a fair bit less information and discussion around it but I assume that's because it seems to be a much more recent release?

I'm not sure (?) how much benefit I would get from elements like the azimuth adjustment being as new to it all as I am, but it does include other passive elements that seem to be a bump up from the Esprit. It's a little above the Rega Planar 3 so, as with that, a fundamental question would be around how the Pick it S2 MM cartridge supplied is compared to the 2M Blue and Red. Also whether a change to the blue, if recommended, was a simple stylus change as with the Esprit?

It's certainly an attractive choice on first glance, with it not pushing much out from the original plan and featuring elements like the speed switch over the Planar. The latter does still hang on the mind even if just because of the reputation and successive reviews and awards it seems to garner. The issue then being that when the belt change does initially become a bore as my record collection grows, I'll want to purchase the Neo speed box. Which is less than I had thought it could be at ~£250, but it raises the obvious point of if you are willing to chuck in over a third of the turntable price for the speed option would you have been better off spending £900 instead on a turntable of that value. Something that causes my "sensible brakes" to slam on when it comes to a first time turntable itself.

..which leads into:

Which I appreciate is likely a good option but I really would be only fully comfortable buying new for my first venture into vinyl. Not only because of the anxiety around anything if it does sound off now or in the recent future but also for not wanting to keep scouring to find not only a good price, but a reputable seller. All in all it just lands on being a new buy for me for the first one.

That said, I am really interested to know your thoughts on the Elys2 @Bsdmr2 as that's a current blind spot for me in all of this. With the Esprit I was looking to upgrade to the 2M Blue soon after setup so keen to understand how the cartridges for both the Planar 3 and X1 contend, if at all.

So the shortlist is currently:

• Pro-ject Debut Carbon Esprit w/ Ortofon 2M Blue - Cheaper option but more money for an upgrade or records
• Rega Planar 3 w/ Elys 2 - No easy speed change but ridiculous in its award winning of late
• Pro-ject X1 w/ Pick it S2 MM - Nice upgrade with good elements & speed change but less hype around it compared to the Rega

Can I throw a cat in amongst the pigeons. Just in case you feel the budget is spiraling and you want to rein it back in a bit. I’d never normally have suggested this as the company itself doesn’t directly sell to the UK but I’ve just found out at that you can now buy the Fluance RT85 in the UK.

it’s an kind of equivalent table to the debut esprit sb but with different stregths. It had a speed change too but it has a better motor. The pro-ject carbon tonearm is probably slightly better but the fluance tonearm is more convent with a removable head shell which makes switching carts a sync and if you buy extra head shells even means that you can swap between them on the fly to compare. Also the high gloss walnut finish is a real looker. It comes with a 2m blue mounted. £499.99

here’s where it’s for sale

Fluance Reference High Fidelity Vinyl Turntable Record Player with 2M Blue Cartridge, Acrylic Platter, Speed Control Motor, Solid Wood Plinth, Vibration Isolation Feet – Walnut (RT85W) Fluance Reference High Fidelity Vinyl Turntable Record: Amazon.co.uk: Electronics

And this is fluances website if you want to read more about it.

www.fluance.com

 

[Bsdmr2]

Been racking the brain and looking around since posting and reading the responses. Still more to do and fully appreciate there's not a bad choice among them, but I get stuck at the choice of chocolate bars in a petrol station so this certainly was something that was always going to make me umm and ahh about it. Honestly for as frustrating as it is I know I would feel worse if I bought one without doing so and it would be moreso on the back of my mind.



Definitely. It was hard to type it without it coming across as downplaying it. I was making sure there wasn't an issue around it knocking any of the adjustments askew or whether it wears the belt, anything like that. I can fully appreciate how it would become annoying fast to have to repeatedly switch back and forth if the records you wanted to play happened to differ. Indeed it was a perk that contributed to my selecting the Esprit over the Carbon DC, in addition to the platter savings.

The X1 is a very interesting choice – it seems there's a fair bit less information and discussion around it but I assume that's because it seems to be a much more recent release?

I'm not sure (?) how much benefit I would get from elements like the azimuth adjustment being as new to it all as I am, but it does include other passive elements that seem to be a bump up from the Esprit. It's a little above the Rega Planar 3 so, as with that, a fundamental question would be around how the Pick it S2 MM cartridge supplied is compared to the 2M Blue and Red. Also whether a change to the blue, if recommended, was a simple stylus change as with the Esprit?

It's certainly an attractive choice on first glance, with it not pushing much out from the original plan and featuring elements like the speed switch over the Planar. The latter does still hang on the mind even if just because of the reputation and successive reviews and awards it seems to garner. The issue then being that when the belt change does initially become a bore as my record collection grows, I'll want to purchase the Neo speed box. Which is less than I had thought it could be at ~£250, but it raises the obvious point of if you are willing to chuck in over a third of the turntable price for the speed option would you have been better off spending £900 instead on a turntable of that value. Something that causes my "sensible brakes" to slam on when it comes to a first time turntable itself.

..which leads into:

Which I appreciate is likely a good option but I really would be only fully comfortable buying new for my first venture into vinyl. Not only because of the anxiety around anything if it does sound off now or in the recent future but also for not wanting to keep scouring to find not only a good price, but a reputable seller. All in all it just lands on being a new buy for me for the first one.

That said, I am really interested to know your thoughts on the Elys2 @Bsdmr2 as that's a current blind spot for me in all of this. With the Esprit I was looking to upgrade to the 2M Blue soon after setup so keen to understand how the cartridges for both the Planar 3 and X1 contend, if at all.

So the shortlist is currently:

• Pro-ject Debut Carbon Esprit w/ Ortofon 2M Blue - Cheaper option but more money for an upgrade or records
• Rega Planar 3 w/ Elys 2 - No easy speed change but ridiculous in its award winning of late
• Pro-ject X1 w/ Pick it S2 MM - Nice upgrade with good elements & speed change but less hype around it compared to the Rega

I personally like the Elys2 - my father has that on his P3. It's detailed but has some warmth. I'm not a fan of Ortofon carts, that's just my personal preference on the few I've heard, and I found them overly clinical and bright, rather than a reflection of whether they are any good or not. Everyone has different ears and tastes.

The X1 in the wood finish does look quite nice, but i've not got any experience with that.

At the end of the day all 3 are great options for your first proper deck, so I would try not to over think it too much. If you get a deck you are happy with and can do some tweaks to then you can keep it for a couple of years and then decide whether you want to move onto the next level of if you are happy where you are.

 

[kvetcha]

I agree with @kvetcha entirely.

The X1 is a new table in project’s X range. It only came out about 6 months ago so hasn’t garnered too much in the way of reviews they have all been positive. What I can add is that the pick it s2mm is an Ortofon 2m. Edit: it’s a 2m red rebadged for Pro-ject for newer tables because the two companies work so closely together.

As you near £1000 you start to get into some very competitive waters table wise.

In the US, the X1 comes with a Sumiko Rainier, which seems like a more appealing option.

 

[Joe Mac]

In the US, the X1 comes with a Sumiko Rainier, which seems like a more appealing option.

To be honest for project in that price range I’d get the new classic evo without a cart for £1050 and stick whatever cartilage I want on it. Both the X1 and the more expensive X2 have in effect rebadged 2m reds with the X2 bring the silver which is a red on a bronze/black cartridge body.

 

[kvetcha]

To be honest for project in that price range I’d get the new classic evo without a cart for £1050 and stick whatever cartilage I want on it. Both the X1 and the more expensive X2 have in effect rebadged 2m reds with the X2 bring the silver which is a red on a bronze/black cartridge body.

Of course, then you end up sailing well past @Kyuuji’s budget.

I think the Fluance RT85 is a pretty tempting option, although again you surrender VTA/azimuth adjustment for a nicer cart.

 

[Joe Mac]

Of course, then you end up sailing well past @Kyuuji’s budget.

I think the Fluance RT85 is a pretty tempting option, although again you surrender VTA/azimuth adjustment for a nicer cart.

oh I know that, I wasn’t suggesting it as an option for him, more just that’s the way I’d go if I was throwing around that kinda money.

the fluance or the debut esprit sb would be the way I’d be going from the options/rest of system. If there’s extra money in the budget I’d probably use it for a separate phono stage and a blue stylus (if going debut).

 

[kvetcha]

oh I know that, I wasn’t suggesting it as an option for him, more just that’s the way I’d go if I was throwing around that kinda money.

the fluance or the debut esprit sb would be the way I’d be going from the options/rest of system. If there’s extra money in the budget I’d probably use it for a separate phono stage and a blue stylus (if going debut).

I suppose my bias in favor of the X1 comes from the fact that I had a Debut Carbon DC for several years and the speed change (addressed by the Esprit) and lack of tonearm adjustability were my main reasons for replacing it. So I can’t help but lean in the direction of having the more flexible table.

They’re all very good options as far as just having something nice to listen to at the moment.

 

[Joe Mac]

I suppose my bias in favor of the X1 comes from the fact that I had a Debut Carbon DC for several years and the speed change (addressed by the Esprit) and lack of tonearm adjustability were my main reasons for replacing it. So I can’t help but lean in the direction of having the more flexible table.

They’re all very good options as far as just having something nice to listen to at the moment.

Yeah I’d definitely not drop below the esprit sb on the debut for sure. My manual does state that the azimuth is adjustable? The VTA doesn’t seem to be though I concede.

 

[Mrjay07]

I love my P3 but had read average reviews of the Elys so got the Exact2 cart instead.
I don't have any experience with other tables or carts but can hand on heart say that the table and exact will be the last thing I upgrade and step up from.
Both tt and cart are approx £830ish.

 

[kvetcha]

Yeah I’d definitely not drop below the esprit sb on the debut for sure. My manual does state that the azimuth is adjustable? The VTA doesn’t seem to be though I concede.

You are probably right, it’s been a while since I’ve looked at it. I mostly remember lack of VTA being annoying.

 

[Mather]

Those of you with far more technical knowledge than myself I have a question. With effective mass and all that stuff, is there any reason that a Goldring Ethos MC cart would not work on a Pro Ject 2Xperience SB with a 9" EVO tonearm? I've googled like crazy and can't find the answer. Thoughts? @HiFi Guy? Anyone, please come and tell me why I am being stupid...

 

[kvetcha]

Those of you with far more technical knowledge than myself I have a question. With effective mass and all that stuff, is there any reason that a Goldring Ethos MC cart would not work on a Pro Ject 2Xperience SB with a 9" EVO tonearm? I've googled like crazy and can't find the answer. Thoughts? @HiFi Guy? Anyone, please come and tell me why I am being stupid...

Calculator: Cartridge Resonance Evaluator - Vinyl Engine

Tonearm effective mass: 8.5g. Cart mass incl fixings: 8.5g. Total mass, 17g. Dynamic compliance, 15.

That would produce a resonant frequency of just under 10hz, which is within the acceptable range.

 

[Mather]

Calculator: Cartridge Resonance Evaluator - Vinyl Engine

Tonearm effective mass: 8.5g. Cart mass incl fixings: 8.5g. Total mass, 17g. Dynamic compliance, 15.

That would produce a resonant frequency of just under 10hz, which is within the acceptable range.

See now THAT is just the sort of results my googling COMPLETELY FAILED to come up with... Thank you. I'm still hoping to figure out what's causing these digital pops I'm getting on some tracks, but I may have to accept that some part of my system just doesn't play well with another part of my system, and the only way to fix that is to change parts. Or as hifiguy suggested I will also try out some attenuators, though I'm thoroughly afraid of them since I spent so much money on my damn cables the idea of inserting some random attenuators into the mix and thereby completely downgrading the signal right before it hits my AVR scares the bejeezus out of me.

UPDATE: I bought these, Rothwell in line attenuators... I figure this will narrow down the issue... And potentially save me like $1200.

 

[Kyuuji]

@Joe Mac @kvetcha @Bsdmr2

Have done a fair bit of reading up and looking around since reading the recent posts and right now it looks like the X1 is leading the pack. The Rega's need for an additional box (and price of said box) if changing belts gets tedious have helped to cross it out for now. Partner is only aware of the turntable, records and amp – not the possible phono stage down the line – and groaned at the idea of a further box with the Planar. So probably keep that ace up my sleeve for a later date than burn it now. Though the glass platter of Rega is a thing of beauty I can't deny.

The Fluance drop-in was a definite cat among the pigeons @Joe Mac so cheers for that it's a lovely thing and the inclusion of the 2M Blue is still kind of messing with me. I'll be looking at black because it'll be sat on different wood and honestly, kind of love the minimal black turntables, so wouldn't be taking advantage of the veneer but it certainly looks nice. I see there's no 78 option which I wouldn't see being an issue in the short term (?) though amusingly a shellac record was what kicked me into finally getting started with all of this.

So it really comes down to a final knowledge fill on the X1:

• Can the 2M Blue stylus be used in place of the Pick it S2 MM or would it need to be the cartridge replacement?
• If in a distant future I eventually wish to go for the Bronze/Black cartridge then am I right in believing I could because the supported weight is 5-8g and the Ortofon ones (including the one included) are 7.2g?

and then with the following choices:

• Fluance RT85 w/ included 2M Blue - £500
• Pro-Ject X1 w/ purchased 2M Blue Stylus - £800

..with the question being around whether the difference between the tables, in looking for a TT that sounds great and will last me a good length and have accessible upgrade paths, is justified in the price difference? The full depth of some of the elements will likely escape me now but the idea of having things to grow into or upgrade as my knowledge and experience fills out appeals greatly. More about asking the people that know than concern over the price itself.

Oh also, one final ultimate dealbreaker..

Can the X1 work with the metal Clamp-IT that Joe has?

Thanks all for the continued patience and assistance, really is very useful and getting back to that excitement again now a lot of the mud has cleared!

 

[kvetcha]

@Joe Mac @kvetcha @Bsdmr2

Have done a fair bit of reading up and looking around since reading the recent posts and right now it looks like the X1 is leading the pack. The Rega's need for an additional box (and price of said box) if changing belts gets tedious have helped to cross it out for now. Partner is only aware of the turntable, records and amp – not the possible phono stage down the line – and groaned at the idea of a further box with the Planar. So probably keep that ace up my sleeve for a later date than burn it now. Though the glass platter of Rega is a thing of beauty I can't deny.

The Fluance drop-in was a definite cat among the pigeons @Joe Mac so cheers for that it's a lovely thing and the inclusion of the 2M Blue is still kind of messing with me. I'll be looking at black because it'll be sat on different wood and honestly, kind of love the minimal black turntables, so wouldn't be taking advantage of the veneer but it certainly looks nice. I see there's no 78 option which I wouldn't see being an issue in the short term (?) though amusingly a shellac record was what kicked me into finally getting started with all of this.

So it really comes down to a final knowledge fill on the X1:

• Can the 2M Blue stylus be used in place of the Pick it S2 MM or would it need to be the cartridge replacement?
• If in a distant future I eventually wish to go for the Bronze/Black cartridge then am I right in believing I could because the supported weight is 5-8g and the Ortofon ones (including the one included) are 7.2g?

and then with the following choices:

• Fluance RT85 w/ included 2M Blue - £500
• Pro-Ject X1 w/ purchased 2M Blue Stylus - £800

..with the question being around whether the difference between the tables, in looking for a TT that sounds great and will last me a good length and have accessible upgrade paths, is justified in the price difference? The full depth of some of the elements will likely escape me now but the idea of having things to grow into or upgrade as my knowledge and experience fills out appeals greatly. More about asking the people that know than concern over the price itself.

Oh also, one final ultimate dealbreaker..

Can the X1 work with the metal Clamp-IT that Joe has?

Thanks all for the continued patience and assistance, really is very useful and getting back to that excitement again now a lot of the mud has cleared!

re: X1

- I do not know if the 2M stylus will fit the Pick-It cartridge. I would probably recommend giving it a listen as-is and possibly saving for a replacement down the line versus immediately jumping to a 2M Blue. While the Pick-It 2S MM is manufactuered by Ortofon, it is voiced by Pro-Ject, and is likely to sound different than a standard 2M Red.

- I see the manual states the included counterweight can support cartridges up to 10g. You should be fine.

- Most of the record weights are interchangeable (except those for Regas, as they of course have their own special spindle). The Pro-ject Clamp-IT should work great.

excerpt from Michael Fremer's review at Analog Planet:

With either cartridge the X1 played above its price point in my opinion, delivering clean, tight, though not full extension on bottom (compared to far costlier ‘tables), open, low coloration mids, precise, super-clean high frequency transients and rhythm’n’pacing that should satisfy even the most demanding listener. That would be me and I listened, fully enjoying for days the X1’s solid musical performance.

What’s more, its low coloration and freedom from mid-bass bloat (a common problem with less costly turntables) meant that it clearly distinguished between the sonic performance of these two cartridges.

The Ortofon was fast, tight and somewhat lean. If you like that kind of nimble, exciting sound featuring tightly drawn, compact images where the initial attack dominates somewhat at the expense of the sustain, you’ll like the Pick-It S2. It’s more like older Lyra cartridges (Helikon for example) that some criticized for being “lean” but which others (me) really liked.