Equipment Recommendations - The Home For New System and Upgrade Advice

Mather said:
Oh man trust me I do not WANT to use room correction for two channel music listening and in fact the whole reason for even going down this upgrade path is to try to go in the proper two channel no digital direction instead of the all in one AVR so that I do have that freedom like you said. However because of limited space in a relatively small bungalow house, the main room where the system is has to also have an AVR for tv and 5.1 watching. So in order to keep my existing AVR but still run the left and right speakers through a separate dedicated 2 channel amp for music, I need to use an integrated with SOME digital circuitry due to the theatre bypass so that my existing amp can still do 5.1 and have actual sound in the left and right speakers when watching anything.

Anyhow that part is boring, the room correction is because here is the listening space I'm dealing with. I have two L100s jammed into the corners of a space that's only 10.5 feet across, out off the wall about half a foot...
View attachment 190579View attachment 190580
These cannot move because of the fireplace hearth to the left and the projector screen above.

Then directly in front of that right one that's jammed into the corner, is a giant window...
View attachment 190581
Two feet in front of the left one is the side of a giant couch. That it fires almost directly into.
View attachment 190582
Between them in front is a 350 pound solid metal trolley coffee table that's maybe like 3 feet away.
View attachment 190584
And I'm sitting about 7.5 feet in front of these two big ass speakers behind the giant iron table.

So it's uh... TIGHT. It may be a fools errand to even try to go without the room correction. I would LOVE to get this system into a proper room with some space but it ain't happening in this house unfortunately.
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Have you considered either removing the sub and sliding the L100 left, or swapping their locations so the sub is in the corner? Would think this would alleviate some of the issues..
 
Joe Mac said:
But then equally for all your looking and all the jokes you steadfastly stuck with your 2M black for years now.

You might do a lot of comparing and looking but you’d also be fine.
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Yeah I will die on my "The 2M Black is a kick-ass MM cart" hill. I really do think it is, it's a pain for extra noise and I'm definitely looking forward to a trying something less finicky on that front, but the sound outta that thing is just sublime when you have it dialed in.

In terms of tubes I absolutely love the look and the idea of them but I can't deal with the degradation. The nagging thought in the back of my mind that maybe it sounded better last week, or last month. I'd be replacing the tubes every six weeks. And as much fun as finding new tunes might be, again, the thought that there are some that would make it sound better than others... It would be like 2 months before I was chartering a plane to some distant off the grid shack deep in the Azores because I'd heard rumors there may some recluse living there who may or may not have an original pair of Genelex/Gold Lion KT66s made from actual bits of lion that I simply MUST HAVE and then from there it just gets weirder.
 
Mather said:
Yeah I will die on my "The 2M Black is a kick-ass MM cart" hill. I really do think it is, it's a pain for extra noise and I'm definitely looking forward to a trying something less finicky on that front, but the sound outta that thing is just sublime when you have it dialed in.

In terms of tubes I absolutely love the look and the idea of them but I can't deal with the degradation. The nagging thought in the back of my mind that maybe it sounded better last week, or last month. I'd be replacing the tubes every six weeks. And as much fun as finding new tunes might be, again, the thought that there are some that would make it sound better than others... It would be like 2 months before I was chartering a plane to some distant off the grid shack deep in the Azores because I'd heard rumors there may some recluse living there who may or may not have an original pair of Genelex/Gold Lion KT66s made from actual bits of lion that I simply MUST HAVE and then from there it just gets weirder.
Click to expand...

Yeah I’m very glad that I had a very bad experience with NOS power tubes from a sound store that gave me a full refund and that’s cured me of that!
 
Mather said:
Yeah I will die on my "The 2M Black is a kick-ass MM cart" hill. I really do think it is, it's a pain for extra noise and I'm definitely looking forward to a trying something less finicky on that front, but the sound outta that thing is just sublime when you have it dialed in.

In terms of tubes I absolutely love the look and the idea of them but I can't deal with the degradation. The nagging thought in the back of my mind that maybe it sounded better last week, or last month. I'd be replacing the tubes every six weeks. And as much fun as finding new tunes might be, again, the thought that there are some that would make it sound better than others... It would be like 2 months before I was chartering a plane to some distant off the grid shack deep in the Azores because I'd heard rumors there may some recluse living there who may or may not have an original pair of Genelex/Gold Lion KT66s made from actual bits of lion that I simply MUST HAVE and then from there it just gets weirder.
Click to expand...
If we were smart men, we would create amazing animated movies from these things that crawl around your brain.
 
Slimwhit33 said:
Have you considered either removing the sub and sliding the L100 left, or swapping their locations so the sub is in the corner? Would think this would alleviate some of the issues..
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Speakers can't swap places because screen is there and speaker will cover bottom of screen. Would have to raise entire screen up and Ugh... DO NOT WANT TO DO. Also means I'd have to move my couch like two feet to the left to compensate for the stereo image shifting. Getting rid of the sub entirely would give me a little breathing room on that side for sure, size of screen means I still would pretty much have to raise it to get enough space to go anywhere. But yes ultimately you're right, the only way to get enough room to move the speakers would be sell the sub and raise the screen by like 4 inches. That would allow me to get the speakers a bit more out of the corners although they still can't move much further off the walls than the 8 or so inches they currently are.
Will also point out that these are front ported so I don't believe it's QUITE as critical to have them farther off the wall since there's really nothing firing back towards it that would affect sound in that way, I don't think at least. Never been entirely sure how that works sound wise...

I'll have to do some experiments with killing the sub and seeing what I think. It just does such a nice job with the really low sub bass that I think I'll miss it. It's crossed over at 60 HZ so its really only adding a bit to the low end but it's so much tighter in sound down to 30 HZ than the 100s, I find like most mid range speakers with 12 inch woofers they can get a bit bloomy in the bass when you get down to the low 30s. Not to mention the db drop they need just to get there.
 
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Mather said:
Speakers can't swap places because screen is there and speaker will cover bottom of screen. Would have to raise entire screen up and Ugh... DO NOT WANT TO DO. Also means I'd have to move my couch like two feet to the left to compensate for the stereo image shifting. Getting rid of the sub entirely would give me a little breathing room on that side for sure, size of screen means I still would pretty much have to raise it to get enough space to go anywhere. But yes ultimately you're right, the only way to get enough room to move the speakers would be sell the sub and raise the screen by like 4 inches. That would allow me to get the speakers a bit more out of the corners although they still can't move much further off the walls than the 8 or so inches they currently are.
Will also point out that these are front ported so I don't believe it's QUITE as critical to have them farther off the wall since there's really nothing firing back towards it that would affect sound in that way, I don't think at least. Never been entirely sure how that works sound wise...

I'll have to do some experiments with killing the sub and seeing what I think. It just does such a nice job with the really low sub bass that I think I'll miss it. It's crossed over at 60 HZ so its really only adding a bit to the low end but it's so much tighter in sound down to 30 HZ than the 100s, I find like most speakers with 12 inch woofers they can get a bit bloomy in the bass when you get down to the low 30s.
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I missed the screen part.. my bad. What about a lower riser for the L100’s? Something like this? Would allow you to keep the sub and switch positions.. though the couch shift I understand could be an issue domestically. 😂
IMG_0502.jpeg
 
Mather said:
Speakers can't swap places because screen is there and speaker will cover bottom of screen. Would have to raise entire screen up and Ugh... DO NOT WANT TO DO. Also means I'd have to move my couch like two feet to the left to compensate for the stereo image shifting. Getting rid of the sub entirely would give me a little breathing room on that side for sure, size of screen means I still would pretty much have to raise it to get enough space to go anywhere. But yes ultimately you're right, the only way to get enough room to move the speakers would be sell the sub and raise the screen by like 4 inches. That would allow me to get the speakers a bit more out of the corners although they still can't move much further off the walls than the 8 or so inches they currently are.
Will also point out that these are front ported so I don't believe it's QUITE as critical to have them farther off the wall since there's really nothing firing back towards it that would affect sound in that way, I don't think at least. Never been entirely sure how that works sound wise...

I'll have to do some experiments with killing the sub and seeing what I think. It just does such a nice job with the really low sub bass that I think I'll miss it. It's crossed over at 60 HZ so its really only adding a bit to the low end but it's so much tighter in sound down to 30 HZ than the 100s, I find like most mid range speakers with 12 inch woofers they can get a bit bloomy in the bass when you get down to the low 30s. Not to mention the db drop they need just to get there.
Click to expand...

The other thing you could potentially do, theoretically at least, if you you were willing to raise the sceeen is to replace the one big sub with a stereo pair of smaller subs the size of mine. If it was a fit they could sit outside each speaker instead and having two smaller ones should also compensate for the one bigger one whilst improving the bass definition and stage. Go for ones like REL or SVS and it could also give you a hi level input that opens up your amp choices.
 
Slimwhit33 said:
I missed the screen part.. my bad. What about a lower riser for the L100’s? Something like this? Would allow you to keep the sub and switch positions.. though the couch shift I understand could be an issue domestically. 😂
View attachment 190677
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Hahaha I like the phrase "an issue domestically". Yes. It could. Pretty much zero chance that couch moves although if it's only like half a foot I could probably get away with that. But it's a 100" screen so I kinda have to keep the couch aligned with the screen so not a lot of room for movement. On the "domestic issue" front I actually came to a sudden, horrible realisation yesterday that I'm still trying to come to terms with. It's increasingly likely that I end up with the Levinson, if I do this. If that's the case my plan was to just get it, and swap places with the JC3+ stage which is currently sitting on a isolation platform and is similar in size to the 5805 when you take into account the platform...
20230626_114213.jpg
So while my wife will obviously notice it, it probably won't annoy her too much as long as NONE OF YOU TELL HER HOW MUCH IT COST OR THAT I DIDN'T ACTUALLY FIND IT AT A YARD SALE. But here's the thing. It weighs almost 70 pounds. There is no way I can get that thing up onto that cabinet safely without asking for HER help carrying it. And the SECOND I ask for her help doing this...
tumblr_msps1j2PLt1r5s47zo5_250.gif
...the eye of Sauron will absolutely start beating down on me as she both immediately realizes what I've done and then upon lifting it starts to comprehend just due to sheer weight how much it likely cost. Also my wife hates carrying things or moving furniture more than anyone on planet Earth. I have no idea how I survived the move into the house. This scenario would be catestrophic for my health. I may need to hire someone off the street to hang around my front yard until the delivery truck arrives just to help me carry it.

There's a lot of moving pieces here, and a significant number of them end in my death.
 
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Mather said:
Hahaha I like the phrase "an issue domestically". Yes. It could. Pretty much zero chance that couch moves although if it's only like half a foot I could probably get away with that. But it's a 100" screen so I kinda have to keep the couch aligned with the screen so not a lot of room for movement. On the "domestic issue" front I actually came to a sudden, horrible realisation yesterday that I'm still trying to come to terms with. It's increasingly likely that I end up with the Levinson, if I do this. If that's the case my plan was to just get it, and swap places with the JC3+ stage which is currently sitting on a isolation platform and is similar in size to the 5805 when you take into account the platform...
View attachment 190678
So while my wife will obviously notice it, it probably won't annoy her too much as long as NONE OF YOU TELL HER HOW MUCH IT COST OR THAT I DIDN'T ACTUALLY FIND IT AT A YARD SALE. But here's the thing. It weighs almost 70 pounds. There is no way I can get that thing up onto that cabinet safely without asking for HER help carrying it. And the SECOND I ask for her help doing this...
View attachment 190680
...the eye of Sauron will absolutely start beating down on me as she both immediately realizes what I've done and then upon lifting it starts to comprehend just due to sheer weight how much it likely cost. Also my wife hates carrying things or moving furniture more than anyone on planet Earth. I have no idea how I survived the move into the house. This scenario would be catestrophic for my health. I may need to hire someone off the street to hang around my front yard until the delivery truck arrives just to help me carry it.

There's a lot of moving pieces here, and a significant number of them end in my death.
Click to expand...

Could you align all this with having a friend/family member coming visit?

And yes every time I have to move my 35kg power amp anywhere on my own it hurts!
 
Joe Mac said:
Could you align all this with having a friend/family member coming visit?
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Probably the only way this works.

The second horrible realisation I came to was that in order to watch tv she's now going to have to turn on the second amp and make sure it's set to bypass mode. Even if I make sure it's set like that every time I turn it off, she's still going to have to turn it on, with a new remote. This alone may get me buried in the backyard. I have to make this entire thing as seamless as possible or at best I risk losing a limb.
 
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Mather said:
Probably the only way this works.

The second horrible realisation I came to was that in order to watch tv she's now going to have to turn on the second amp and make sure it's set to bypass mode. Even if I make sure it's set like that every time I turn it off, she's still going to have to turn it on, with a new remote. This alone may get me buried in the backyard. I have to make this entire thing as seamless as possible or at best I risk losing an arm.
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Random question but are you really sure you wouldn’t be better with an amplifier switch rather than the HT bypass? Again opens up the amp choices to, well, everything and you can just leave it permanently on the AVR when not spinning so as to make the whole experience no different for your better half?
 
Mather said:
Hahaha I like the phrase "an issue domestically". Yes. It could. Pretty much zero chance that couch moves although if it's only like half a foot I could probably get away with that. But it's a 100" screen so I kinda have to keep the couch aligned with the screen so not a lot of room for movement. On the "domestic issue" front I actually came to a sudden, horrible realisation yesterday that I'm still trying to come to terms with. It's increasingly likely that I end up with the Levinson, if I do this. If that's the case my plan was to just get it, and swap places with the JC3+ stage which is currently sitting on a isolation platform and is similar in size to the 5805 when you take into account the platform...
View attachment 190678
So while my wife will obviously notice it, it probably won't annoy her too much as long as NONE OF YOU TELL HER HOW MUCH IT COST OR THAT I DIDN'T ACTUALLY FIND IT AT A YARD SALE. But here's the thing. It weighs almost 70 pounds. There is no way I can get that thing up onto that cabinet safely without asking for HER help carrying it. And the SECOND I ask for her help doing this...
View attachment 190680
...the eye of Sauron will absolutely start beating down on me as she both immediately realizes what I've done and then upon lifting it starts to comprehend just due to sheer weight how much it likely cost. Also my wife hates carrying things or moving furniture more than anyone on planet Earth. I have no idea how I survived the move into the house. This scenario would be catestrophic for my health. I may need to hire someone off the street to hang around my front yard until the delivery truck arrives just to help me carry it.

There's a lot of moving pieces here, and a significant number of them end in my death.
Click to expand...
I’ll tell her I’m letting you borrow it
 
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