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Jonathan Y said:
hey if you want to listen to what he's been doing, and the changes he has undergone there is an interview on Beats 1 right now.

That negativity isn't for me. Sorry to disappoint you. Especially when you think the man who made Jesus Walks, converted to Christianity over the last year.
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So until this Beats1 interview, no one knew what Kanye has been up to in the last couple years? What negativity are you even referring to? You expressed confusion about people being surprised that Kanye is growing up. I literally just asked, "how has he grown up?" and you took that as negativity?

It was Kanye himself who said he was a recent convert to Christianity. So maybe direct your condescension to him on that one.
 
BradwiseBeats said:
So until this Beats1 interview, no one knew what Kanye has been up to in the last couple years? What negativity are you even referring to? You expressed confusion about people being surprised that Kanye is growing up. I literally just asked, "how has he grown up?" and you took that as negativity?

It was Kanye himself who said he was a recent convert to Christianity. So maybe direct your condescension to him on that one.
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Before he was a Christian that did everything because of God, now he's "a born again christian" that does everything for God. (taken from the interview on beats 1 rn)
Not a converted christian who never was one before.

BradwiseBeats said:
What in the last couple years has Kanye done that could be considered "growing up"? Converting to Christianity isn't it and outside of that its kinda been a shitshow
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Also, this post^ is negative in my opinion. I'm not here to convince you, or anyone, that he is or isn't a "shit show" that is for TMZ to do.


He explained that Ye was when he changed his whole mentality on his ego and everything. Kanye is changing his music for his children and marriage because he doesn't want his secular music to be what his kids hear from him first. His ego and arrogance led him down the wrong paths before but now he realizes he isn't shit but a vessel.

That is why I directed u to this interview i'm listening to as well. So we can hear all this from his mouth, not slanted journalists with a bias.

EDIT: Im not tryna list his 2nd chance program for felons, his praise and worship services, his self sustaining garden community he's working on, the rode crater ideas, etc. Its just a back and forth im over at this point. If u hate, much like when Chance grew up, then go ahead. I am excited for the positive changes
 
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Jonathan Y said:
Before he was a Christian that did everything because of God, now he's "a born again christian" that does everything for God. (taken from the interview on beats 1 rn)
Not a converted christian who never was one before.



Also, this post^ is negative in my opinion. I'm not here to convince you, or anyone, that he is or isn't a "shit show" that is for TMZ to do.


He explained that Ye was when he changed his whole mentality on his ego and everything. Kanye is changing his music for his children and marriage because he doesn't want his secular music to be what his kids hear from him first. His ego and arrogance led him down the wrong paths before but now he realizes he isn't shit but a vessel.

That is why I directed u to this interview i'm listening to as well. So we can hear all this from his mouth, not slanted journalists with a bias.

EDIT: Im not tryna list his 2nd chance program for felons, his praise and worship services, his self sustaining garden community he's working on, the rode crater ideas, etc. Its just a back and forth im over at this point. If u hate, much like when Chance grew up, then go ahead. I am excited for the positive changes
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I dunno man, I feel like you are glossing over a lot of stupid stuff that he has said and done in the last couple years that has been ignorant, irresponsible and has offended a lot of people.

That slavery was a choice bullshit.

What he had to say about mental health and being bi-polar and not needing medicine is really dangerous for people who do need it. I know he has backpedaled some on that on letterman or something.

He is still preaching cliche political talking points about how Abe Lincoln was a republican at his "Sunday service."

Hopefully he's giving all the money he's making off of that cheap merch at his "Sunday services" to charity.

None of that stuff seems mature or positive to me personally.

I think writing off people who are cynical about new Kanye as haters isn't fair when there are legitimate reasons that past fans of his can't stand him any more that have nothing to do with him singing about Jesus.
 
dhodo said:
What he had to say about mental health and being bi-polar and not needing medicine is really dangerous for people who do need it. I know he has backpedaled some on that on letterman or something.



He is still preaching cliche political talking points about how Abe Lincoln was a republican at his "Sunday service."


Hopefully he's giving all the money he's making off of that cheap merch at his "Sunday services" to charity.


None of that stuff seems mature or positive to me personally.
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Yea he did say it was his personal choice because they had him on the wrong meds that made him fat and not creative. He doubled down in todays interview also. Saying the right medication has him in a good place.

All I know is that he is teaching people that a Republican was helpful in the abolotion of slavery and the liberal vs. conservative way of thinking holds ppl back. He said he is 100% liberal but understands some conservative views and all they can do is talk about him in the red hat. They were using Abe as an example that not all republicans or dems have to be the same, (which may be cliche to u) and to the average person with no political knowledge it may be necessary imo

He is donating as always and he also has 2nd chance programs in his yeezy factories for felons. He is doing more programs than this too but im off this now.

Lastly, this all took place around the time Kim almost died at gun point he said that messed him up and the combo of that with bad meds had him looking like a monster, after that he mentioned killing off his ego.

Sounds like a more mature Kanye than the one who was in the TMZ offices off his meds, rambling, which led to him using the worst choice of words ever. Instead of saying what he wanted to say, which has since been cleared up tenfold, he said slavery is a choice

I think for people to re-use the same arguments and disregard the signs of change and growth is toxic. If you don't want him to change and u want to remember him for all the stuff he did wrong in years past then that is your choice. Mine is to acknowledge change and know no one is perfect including Kanye.
 
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dhodo said:
I dunno man, I feel like you are glossing over a lot of stupid stuff that he has said and done in the last couple years that has been ignorant, irresponsible and has offended a lot of people.
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This is the thing that keeps everyone on one side of the fence. I understand he has said offensive things or supported an offensive person, but he has apologized, explained, learned and changed.

You all are essentially saying people don't, can't, or aren't allowed to change, or just Kanye? So if you won't accept the apologies or change then we can agree to disagree and that is fine, but I'm not glossing over at all. I'm just using facts to support my claims of change. I see the growth. i heard the apologies. I'm ready to move on. There are bigger things than Kanye. If ppl wanna hold on to the past and gatekeep human behavior then so be it.
 
Jonathan Y said:
Yea he did say it was his personal choice because they had him on the wrong meds that made him fat and not creative. He doubled down in todays interview also. Saying the right medication has him in a good place.

All I know is that he is teaching people that a Republican was helpful in the abolotion of slavery and the liberal vs. conservative way of thinking holds ppl back. He said he is 100% liberal but understands some conservative views and all they can do is talk about him in the red hat. They were using Abe as an example that not all republicans or dems have to be the same, (which may be cliche to u) and to the average person with no political knowledge it may be necessary imo

He is and he also has 2nd chance programs in his yeezy factories for felons. He is doing more programs than this too but im off this now.

Lastly, this all took place around the time Kim almost died at gun point he said that messed him up and the combo of that with bad meds had him looking like a monster, after that he mentioned killing off his ego.

Sounds like a more mature Kanye than the one who was in the TMZ offices off his meds, rambling, which led to him using the worst choice of words ever. Instead of saying what he wanted to say, which has since been cleared up tenfold, he said slavery is a choice

I think for people to re-use the same arguments and disregard the signs of change and growth is toxic. If you don't want him to change and u want to remember him for all the stuff he did wrong in years past then that is your choice. Mine is to acknowledge change and know no one is perfect including Kanye.
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We aren't going to be on the same page here, which is fine. If it's easy for you to trust him and give him the benefit of the doubt, that's fine. I don't have enough invested in him to put forth the effort. It's going to take more than what I've seen to convince me he isn't still an unstable narcissist, but we can agree to disagree on that if you want.

To clarify though, the reason that Abe Lincoln thing is upsetting is that it is a gross oversimplification and misrepresentation of the history of the Republican party frequently used as rhetoric by the current, very different, Republican Party to exploit the fact that Lincoln, who freed slaves, happened to be a Republican as well.
 
dhodo said:
We aren't going to be on the same page here, which is fine. If it's easy for you to trust him and give him the benefit of the doubt, that's fine. I don't have enough invested in him to put forth the effort. It's going to take more than what I've seen to convince me he isn't still an unstable narcissist, but we can agree to disagree on that if you want.

To clarify though, the reason that Abe Lincoln thing is upsetting is that it is a gross oversimplification and misrepresentation of the history of the Republican party frequently used as rhetoric by the current, very different, Republican Party to exploit the fact that Lincoln, who freed slaves, happened to be a Republican as well.
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I take a man's word when it's for their kids and wife all day. Especially when action is behind those words.

I know, which is why I thought I was correct in my choice of words. He was helpful in the abolotion of slavery. I know there were lies about him freeing the slaves and what the actual drafts said. 3/5. All that. Without getting too ridiculous, I thought I was ok in saying that.

I just wanna say I love you all and don't want this to be a bad convo, and maybe am too naive and forgiving but I stand by what I say in regard to growth, change, and learning lessons. I've been there and so have most ppl I know.
 
Jonathan Y said:
This is the thing that keeps everyone on one side of the fence. I understand he has said offensive things or supported an offensive person, but he has apologized, explained, learned and changed.

You all are essentially saying people don't, can't, or aren't allowed to change, or just Kanye? So if you won't accept the apologies or change then we can agree to disagree and that is fine, but I'm not glossing over at all. I'm just using facts to support my claims of change. I see the growth. i heard the apologies. I'm ready to move on. There are bigger things than Kanye. If ppl wanna hold on to the past and gatekeep human behavior then so be it.
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I'm not saying that. I'm just saying, just because you choose to trust him and forgive him doesn't mean everyone else has to. The actions you cited don't hold as much weight to some people as they do to you. I don't understand what gatekeeping has to do with it. We're talking about individual people's personal choices, I'm not telling you that you can't love him, just pointing out that those who don't aren't just haters, as you seemed to be saying. Their opinion of him is just as valid as yours.

If he learns to stop saying stupid, offensive things that he needs to apologize for, that will be some good mature growth and I'll be glad for him. Seems too early to tell on that to me though.
 
dhodo said:
I'm not saying that. I'm just saying, just because you choose to trust him and forgive him doesn't mean everyone else has to. The actions you cited don't hold as much weight to some people as they do to you. I don't understand what gatekeeping has to do with it. We're talking about individual people's personal choices, I'm not telling you that you can't love him, just pointing out that those who don't aren't just haters, as you seemed to be saying. Their opinion of him is just as valid as yours.

If he learns to stop saying stupid, offensive things that he needs to apologize for, that will be some good mature growth and I'll be glad for him. Seems too early to tell on that to me though.
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FWIW, the original post was directed at believer who has hated on tyler, brockhampton, and chance for their growth. The narrative all week has been why is kanye doing non secular music. I said i'm not surprised he's growing hes over 40 with 3 kids and 5 years of marriage now. Really just didnt want to spend half a day entertaining negative opinions over a person so that is why i brushed off bradwise, plus i've seen his "discussions" before..... Didn't want to go back n forth so i tried to avoid this very thing. I don't think i called anyone haters.....iirc

Then he said what growth? Coverting to christianity sure isnt it and the rest has been a shit show.....i said i dont want to entertain that negativity. That seemed like a slanted way to ask where is the growth i mentioned in a seperate post. Then when i chose to try and ignore it, that was met with discontent. So i felt like ignoring it and calling the aggressive qustioning RE: my opinion hate, wasn't going to do. I tried to use what i was listening to, the interview with Zane, to provide exapmples (which i was asked to do) to why i was saying im not surprised he is going thru growth. That also fell flat, you came in, and now we are here

EDIT: Actually felt/and seems like my love for Kanye was being attacked which is why I chose to try and ignore it.
 
Jonathan Y said:
FWIW, the original post was directed at believer who has hated on tyler, brockhampton, and chance for their growth. The narrative all week has been why is kanye doing non secular music. I said i'm not surprised he's growing hes over 40 with 3 kids and 5 years of marriage now. Really just didnt want to spend half a day entertaining negative opinions over a person so that is why i brushed off bradwise, plus i've seen his "discussions" before..... Didn't want to go back n forth so i tried to avoid this very thing. I don't think i called anyone haters.....iirc

Then he said what growth? Coverting to christianity sure isnt it and the rest has been a shit show.....i said i dont want to entertain that negativity. That seemed like a slanted way to ask where is the growth i mentioned in a seperate post. Then when i chose to try and ignore it, that was met with discontent. So i felt like ignoring it and calling the aggressive qustioning RE: my opinion hate, wasn't going to do. I tried to use what i was listening to, the interview with Zane, to provide exapmples (which i was asked to do) to why i was saying im not surprised he is going thru growth. That also fell flat, you came in, and now we are here

EDIT: Actually felt/and seems like my love for Kanye was being attacked which is why I chose to try and ignore it.
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It's all good man. I have absolutely no problem with your positivity and how you feel about him. I just wanted to make sure that you gave some people who felt differently respect for their valid opinions as well instead of dismissing them as haters. It seems I misunderstood what you were saying as generalizations to a different group than what you meant. Hope I didn't offend.
 
I have no dog in the Kanye discussion, but appreciate the thoughts about it.

What's interesting to me is the way people who are roughly mid 20's to mid 30's in age view Kanye - yes I'm grossly generalizing. He seems to hold a lot more importance to those folks than to people who are younger or older. Maybe I'm reading it all wrong - I don't know.

For me, I recognize what the guy has done. I haven't really paid attention to his more recent work, but I probably should educate myself better. I don't pay attention to anything he says. I only care from the perspective that his words carry weight for a lot of people and some of the things he has said are dangerous because they are narratives perpetrated by people hell bent on white nationalism at worse and politics as usual at best. My judgements about religion and faith are that those can also be dangerous propaganda tools, but I make no judgements about his genuine intentions or lack thereof.

The music can be good regardless of any of this b.s. if that's what you like. The arguments about whether or not buying his music is supporting something negative are too nuanced for me to take the time to invest in. Lines in the sand are hard to draw about any of this.
My only position is that I hope that he is getting healthy. True narcissists rarely do.
 
Anyone that has ordered from low-tech records before.... how is the guy with shipping usually? Does it take longer than estimated usually
 
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