Home Improvement Thread 2: Electric Redo the Loo

Mather said:
HelloOOOoooooo... yes me. I have 3 projectors and 3 screens. What would you like to know.
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As an anxious person, I guess I have more concerns than questions. Let's see:
  • How'd mounting go? I had a bicycle hook tear out of the wall recently and I'm feeling squirrelly. We don't have wall space and would get a pull-down screen; I'm just picturing the strain on the ceiling hooks from pulling it down regularly. Then again, I did mount my guitar on the wall and I take it down and put it back daily without problems.
  • Wiring: did you install those ceiling plugs yourself? That's probably not going to happen over here, especially as we rent. I'm predicting hidden costs and headaches in having to buy a bunch of long cables and covers to run them along the ceiling and over to a corner to run them down to the floor. I live with a perfectionist decor-wise, so hiding any wiring is a big priority.
  • Sound: does it get old always using speakers? I'm picturing 1am trying to watch an old Seinfeld and not being able to get to that "my partner is asleep as are the neighbors we share walls with" whisper-volume.
  • Contrast: our living room is set back from windows, so it's relatively dark all the time, but I'm still wondering if it'll be a nonstarter to play video games during the afternoon. Again, our current projector is cheap-o, and the one I'm eyeing as a replacement down the line is still a budget choice (looking at a BenQ HT2050A or Epson Home Cinema 2250 [though the home 880 looks feasible too], ultimately staying under $1k), so I'm aware we're not going to get perfection.
  • How many devices do you have connected to those things? I've got a firestick, PS4, and Switch I'd situate somewhere with an HDMI switcher so I only need one super long HDMI cable to reach the projector.
That's all I can think of for now; would love your thoughts and insight!
 
Bull Shannon said:
As an anxious person, I guess I have more concerns than questions. Let's see:
  • How'd mounting go? I had a bicycle hook tear out of the wall recently and I'm feeling squirrelly. We don't have wall space and would get a pull-down screen; I'm just picturing the strain on the ceiling hooks from pulling it down regularly. Then again, I did mount my guitar on the wall and I take it down and put it back daily without problems.
Click to expand...
Okay so both of mine were mounted during renos so yes, they do have blocks on the other side of the drywall that they are mounted into. If you're going with a pull down you will want to make you you can go into studs or joists because pull-down screens are heavy, drywall anchors will not cut it. That being said you can mount into the wall as opposed to the ceiling and that might be easier to do directly into studs. ORRRR, there are projector screen paints that you can get and you simply paint the white screen on the wall. It's minimalist and it works. No screen to pull down, no mounting and if you do it nicely it's simply a white wall. You can even put a little black frame around it if you want.

Bull Shannon said:
  • Wiring: did you install those ceiling plugs yourself? That's probably not going to happen over here, especially as we rent. I'm predicting hidden costs and headaches in having to buy a bunch of long cables and covers to run them along the ceiling and over to a corner to run them down to the floor. I live with a perfectionist decor-wise, so hiding any wiring is a big priority.
Click to expand...
No, those plugs were installed during renos and yes herein lies the issue with projectors. If you can't bury the cabling in the ceiling it's tough to make it look pleasant. You can get cable covers but you'd have to likely screw them into the ceiling because the adhesive on those things won't hold very long upsidedown. I BELIEVE... I believe that you can now get HDMI wireless boxes that can send the video signal wirelessly to your AVR, although looking down your post it appears you don't have an AVR and are instead using a HDMI switcher. This MIGHT still work but I'm not positive. If wireless HDMI doesn't work, or is something that I totally just made up in my head (entirely possible) then yes you'll have to run cables along the ceiling and down the walls. I minimized cabling eyesores by getting while AC cables and wrapping the HDMI cables in white electrical tape. You can see that in the pictures above.

Bull Shannon said:
  • Sound: does it get old always using speakers? I'm picturing 1am trying to watch an old Seinfeld and not being able to get to that "my partner is asleep as are the neighbors we share walls with" whisper-volume.
Click to expand...
Okay so again here's where an AVR comes into play. Without separate speakers you're left to use the speakers from the projector for viewing. Most projector speakers are pretty bad and also the sound emanates from right above your head, which can be odd. Some projectors are better than others with this. I think that Benq actually isn't bad, I have an old 3050 around here somewhere and it's speakers were decent. But if you want to watch when people are asleep then you'll likely want to plug in headphones. You can do this on most projectors so that's a fairly easy solution. But obviously your headphones will have to reach the projector... on the ceiling... above your head...

Bull Shannon said:
  • Contrast: our living room is set back from windows, so it's relatively dark all the time, but I'm still wondering if it'll be a nonstarter to play video games during the afternoon. Again, our current projector is cheap-o, and the one I'm eyeing as a replacement down the line is still a budget choice (looking at a BenQ HT2050A or Epson Home Cinema 2250 [though the home 880 looks feasible too], ultimately staying under $1k), so I'm aware we're not going to get perfection.
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You will definitely want curtains or blinds ideally. If it's just open window with sunlight coming in it will definitely wash it out a fair bit. Dark games can be hard to play during the day without the ability to block sunlight. Unless you get a very very bright projector which is doable. But the 2050 I don't believe is one of them... But I'd have to look at the lumens. It just depends how dark you can get that room in the middle of the day.

Bull Shannon said:
  • How many devices do you have connected to those things? I've got a firestick, PS4, and Switch I'd situate somewhere with an HDMI switcher so I only need one super long HDMI cable to reach the projector.
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I have everything connected to mine, PS5, Apple TV4K, cable box, etc etc etc. But again, these are all going through an AVR so that makes it easy. But anything you can connect to a tv you can connect to a projector. But obviously those projectors you're looking at can't do 4K so you'll just need to make sure that your sources are 1080 or can scale to it. That's another place where an AVR is handy because they can do the scaling on 4K sources in many cases.

Bull Shannon said:
That's all I can think of for now; would love your thoughts and insight!
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Hopefully that's somewhat helpful, if you have any more questions or decide to go forward, let me know because then we have to talk about distances and how to calculate exactly where the screen has to go and exactly where the projector has to be mounted so that you can get everything lined up properly because there is not a lot of room for error once everything is up. Cheers!
 
This is all great and gives me a lot of think about, thanks! I realize it might help to show my current situation in order to better convey what we're visualizing:IMG_9149.jpg

We'd mount the screen in the corner, parallel to those track lights; the screen would come down in front of the record player and shelf. The projector itself would be mounted on the ceiling in the center/left of the top of the photo there, depending on focal length and such.

Mather said:
Okay so both of mine were mounted during renos so yes, they do have blocks on the other side of the drywall that they are mounted into. If you're going with a pull down you will want to make you you can go into studs or joists because pull-down screens are heavy, drywall anchors will not cut it. That being said you can mount into the wall as opposed to the ceiling and that might be easier to do directly into studs. ORRRR, there are projector screen paints that you can get and you simply paint the white screen on the wall. It's minimalist and it works. No screen to pull down, no mounting and if you do it nicely it's simply a white wall. You can even put a little black frame around it if you want.
Click to expand...

We have zero wall space (our current tv is on a cart we wheel out of the closet), and we use the fireplace often enough in winter that we have nixed mounting in front of it, so it'd definitely have to be ceiling mounted. I'd have to invest in a stud finder to make sure it's secure. Mounting at an angle might prove difficult in that case, as I'd have to find two separate studs that match the desired angle and distance.

In regards to brightness, I did just try turning on the cheapo projector and aiming it at the wall over the couch, and could see pretty clearly without having to close blinds or anything. That back wall with the guitar and closet door is north, there's a glass door just on the other side of the fireplace on the right there (being as it's to the east it gets direct morning sunlight then falls into the shade of the building itself before noon), and then the only direct sunlight comes from the south windows, which are an entire kitchen away. That living room can get pretty dark and cavelike even on a bright summer day, if you need it. We're not big tv watchers, so it'd get most of its use in the evenings anyway (and in the PNW, many of our days are dark and short).

Mather said:
No, those plugs were installed during renos and yes herein lies the issue with projectors. If you can't bury the cabling in the ceiling it's tough to make it look pleasant. You can get cable covers but you'd have to likely screw them into the ceiling because the adhesive on those things won't hold very long upsidedown. I BELIEVE... I believe that you can now get HDMI wireless boxes that can send the video signal wirelessly to your AVR, although looking down your post it appears you don't have an AVR and are instead using a HDMI switcher. This MIGHT still work but I'm not positive. If wireless HDMI doesn't work, or is something that I totally just made up in my head (entirely possible) then yes you'll have to run cables along the ceiling and down the walls. I minimized cabling eyesores by getting while AC cables and wrapping the HDMI cables in white electrical tape. You can see that in the pictures above.
Click to expand...

I don't yet have the HDMI switcher, so I'm open to using an AVR. My thought was to run the cables along the ceiling towards that left back corner where the bookshelf is, and use a white cover (though maybe getting white cables or wrapping them might result in less bulk). I think my major worry here is my wife is currently nodding along with the idea of cable covers on the ceiling, but I'm picturing her finding the final product obtrusive.

Mather said:
Okay so again here's where an AVR comes into play. Without separate speakers you're left to use the speakers from the projector for viewing. Most projector speakers are pretty bad and also the sound emanates from right above your head, which can be odd. Some projectors are better than others with this. I think that Benq actually isn't bad, I have an old 3050 around here somewhere and it's speakers were decent. But if you want to watch when people are asleep then you'll likely want to plug in headphones. You can do this on most projectors so that's a fairly easy solution. But obviously your headphones will have to reach the projector... on the ceiling... above your head...
Click to expand...

Speaker-wise I was hoping to just plug into my stereo receiver there; the built-in speaker in our current cheapie projector isn't rad, so we're pretty used to hooking up to the receiver. While I have headphones that'll reach the receiver, I don't find them convenient so I'd probably just do my late-night viewing on my laptop (and I'm a heathen who mutes their video games in favor of podcasts anyway).

Looking at the work, fiddling, and financial investment, I wonder if this might be a better project for our next home (we've been renting for 6 years and I think our landlords are ready to sell the building soon), at a point where I could invest in an AVR as well as a good projector.

I was looking at some decent 4K tvs under 500; I can either just drop that cash and replace the broken set in the closet and be done, or I can drop $100 on a screen, $25 on a mount, and let's say another $100 on cables/covers/hdmi-switch, and put together an ersatz setup that might not 100% work. I'm basically looking at the question of big, up-front investment; or small up-front investment that includes a lot of hemming and hawing.
 
Bull Shannon said:
This is all great and gives me a lot of think about, thanks! I realize it might help to show my current situation in order to better convey what we're visualizing:View attachment 110747

We'd mount the screen in the corner, parallel to those track lights; the screen would come down in front of the record player and shelf. The projector itself would be mounted on the ceiling in the center/left of the top of the photo there, depending on focal length and such.



We have zero wall space (our current tv is on a cart we wheel out of the closet), and we use the fireplace often enough in winter that we have nixed mounting in front of it, so it'd definitely have to be ceiling mounted. I'd have to invest in a stud finder to make sure it's secure. Mounting at an angle might prove difficult in that case, as I'd have to find two separate studs that match the desired angle and distance.

In regards to brightness, I did just try turning on the cheapo projector and aiming it at the wall over the couch, and could see pretty clearly without having to close blinds or anything. That back wall with the guitar and closet door is north, there's a glass door just on the other side of the fireplace on the right there (being as it's to the east it gets direct morning sunlight then falls into the shade of the building itself before noon), and then the only direct sunlight comes from the south windows, which are an entire kitchen away. That living room can get pretty dark and cavelike even on a bright summer day, if you need it. We're not big tv watchers, so it'd get most of its use in the evenings anyway (and in the PNW, many of our days are dark and short).



I don't yet have the HDMI switcher, so I'm open to using an AVR. My thought was to run the cables along the ceiling towards that left back corner where the bookshelf is, and use a white cover (though maybe getting white cables or wrapping them might result in less bulk). I think my major worry here is my wife is currently nodding along with the idea of cable covers on the ceiling, but I'm picturing her finding the final product obtrusive.



Speaker-wise I was hoping to just plug into my stereo receiver there; the built-in speaker in our current cheapie projector isn't rad, so we're pretty used to hooking up to the receiver. While I have headphones that'll reach the receiver, I don't find them convenient so I'd probably just do my late-night viewing on my laptop (and I'm a heathen who mutes their video games in favor of podcasts anyway).

Looking at the work, fiddling, and financial investment, I wonder if this might be a better project for our next home (we've been renting for 6 years and I think our landlords are ready to sell the building soon), at a point where I could invest in an AVR as well as a good projector.

I was looking at some decent 4K tvs under 500; I can either just drop that cash and replace the broken set in the closet and be done, or I can drop $100 on a screen, $25 on a mount, and let's say another $100 on cables/covers/hdmi-switch, and put together an ersatz setup that might not 100% work. I'm basically looking at the question of big, up-front investment; or small up-front investment that includes a lot of hemming and hawing.
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Okay so here's another option that totally omits mounting the projector and dealing with cables. Look into 1080p ultra short throw projectors. They basically can sit on a short cabinet about a foot in front of the screen and they shoot almost straight up. So no ceiling cables, no mounting, very easily moveable. You'd need to figure out a little coffee table situation or something to put it on, seeing as you're in a corner. But that might be the path of least resistance if you want to do a projector in this space without being able to rewire etc. I'm not certain of lumens or fidelity in terms of ultra short throws but have a look into those and see if any of them work in your price range.
 
Mather said:
Okay so here's another option that totally omits mounting the projector and dealing with cables. Look into 1080p ultra short throw projectors. They basically can sit on a short cabinet about a foot in front of the screen and they shoot almost straight up. So no ceiling cables, no mounting, very easily moveable. You'd need to figure out a little coffee table situation or something to put it on, seeing as you're in a corner. But that might be the path of least resistance if you want to do a projector in this space without being able to rewire etc. I'm not certain of lumens or fidelity in terms of ultra short throws but have a look into those and see if any of them work in your price range.
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This is tempting (especially if I can find something that throws short enough that maybe I could just set it on one of those kallax boxes and slide it out when in use. Though I think part of the projector talk was the lack of setup compared to taking the tv out of the closet.
 
I just had a "are you just holding onto the cans?" moment when I realized I could always just set a projector on something. That immediately removes the issue of cable management/visibility.


Now I'll have to figure out the distance/angle of where I'd like the projector to be vs where the screen would be best situated, and figure what projector can tilt its lens, keystone, and possibly reduce the size of the image as I'm thinking we're looking at an 80" screen and I'd want the projector 10-15 feet away from it, next to the couch so it doesn't have to float in the middle of the room.
 
Bull Shannon said:
I just had a "are you just holding onto the cans?" moment when I realized I could always just set a projector on something. That immediately removes the issue of cable management/visibility.


Now I'll have to figure out the distance/angle of where I'd like the projector to be vs where the screen would be best situated, and figure what projector can tilt its lens, keystone, and possibly reduce the size of the image as I'm thinking we're looking at an 80" screen and I'd want the projector 10-15 feet away from it, next to the couch so it doesn't have to float in the middle of the room.
Click to expand...

Yes, but keep in mind you will likely have the option to keystone vertically, but it's rather unlikely you'll have the ability to keystone horizontally. So you'll likely need to be pretty centered in order to get a rectangular image that isn't skewed.
 
Mather said:
Yes, but keep in mind you will likely have the option to keystone vertically, but it's rather unlikely you'll have the ability to keystone horizontally. So you'll likely need to be pretty centered in order to get a rectangular image that isn't skewed.
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It seems horizontal keystoning is an option on many projectors. I'd have to figure out the extent of the angle/keystoning though.
 
Bull Shannon said:
It seems horizontal keystoning is an option on many projectors. I'd have to figure out the extent of the angle/keystoning though.
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If it's available on the projectors you're looking at then that's great, that should help to fix any off angle situations. One thing to keep in mind, every time you add more keystone correction you're losing a portion of the picture and you're losing resolution as it compensates for the skewed image. Not a huge deal, but if it's really severe you may start to notice the drop in resolution and the image cropping.
 
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