Hemotep
Well-Known Member
You'll probably regret it
My view is certainly indefensible by any objective standard.
Hot Take/ Musical Confession Thread!
- Thread starter Count_Vader
- Start date
My view is certainly indefensible by any objective standard.
gaporter
Well-Known Member
That new Tool pre-order is ridiculous but I don't give it long until more mainstream artists realize they too can charge $100+ for their vinyl and people will still gladly buy it. And given the current state of vinyl, I'm sure all these expensive, grandiose pressings will definitely sound as good as they look.
The following is less a hot take, I guess more of a confession, but honestly more of a rant than anything. I understand many will disagree, which is why I've put it here, but as a young person™ who was somewhat early in jumping on the current "vinyl boom" or whatever you want to call it, these are just my honest feelings.
I'll preface by saying that people are free to spend their money on whatever they want. I don't care. It's your money, it's your turntable, it's your life. I'm not in the business of judging people for their purchases, no matter how ridiculous I think they may be. So please don't think I'm trying to shame people from buying things they genuinely want, this is just me speaking for myself.
I've been thinking since I saw Mach-Hommy was able to get people to pay $200+ for a single record that vinyl is gradually becoming less about the music and more of a status thing. I understand that's not how it is for a lot of people on here but I feel like the sad truth is in 2022 many buyers aren't attracted to vinyl because of the sound quality, because quite frankly the quality is just not there anymore in a lot of cases. It's all about pretty colors, deluxe sets, etc. I'm at the point if I want a physical copy of something, I'm getting the CD. Not only are they cheaper but in most cases, I don't have to worry about a CD of Kid A being unlistenable for the climax of one of the best songs on the album.
It's sad because there was a point in the mid-2010s where it really did feel like there was something special to the "vinyl experience" for me. But I just don't feel that same passion anymore. It feels more and more like buying vinyl is becoming something elitist, not so much in the snobby pretentious way, but in the sense that, if you're someone like me, a consumer who doesn't have the luxury of being able to risk $40 on a product that has the 50/50 chance of sounding no better than a digital stream with some surface noise, then the medium is no longer meant for you. The prices have increased while simultaneously the quality control has taken a massive downgrade and that just doesn't add up to me.
I don't know. Maybe I'm just short-sighted and making mountains out of molehills, but again I can only speak to my personal experience and this is just how I feel about the state of vinyl in 2022.
The following is less a hot take, I guess more of a confession, but honestly more of a rant than anything. I understand many will disagree, which is why I've put it here, but as a young person™ who was somewhat early in jumping on the current "vinyl boom" or whatever you want to call it, these are just my honest feelings.
I'll preface by saying that people are free to spend their money on whatever they want. I don't care. It's your money, it's your turntable, it's your life. I'm not in the business of judging people for their purchases, no matter how ridiculous I think they may be. So please don't think I'm trying to shame people from buying things they genuinely want, this is just me speaking for myself.
I've been thinking since I saw Mach-Hommy was able to get people to pay $200+ for a single record that vinyl is gradually becoming less about the music and more of a status thing. I understand that's not how it is for a lot of people on here but I feel like the sad truth is in 2022 many buyers aren't attracted to vinyl because of the sound quality, because quite frankly the quality is just not there anymore in a lot of cases. It's all about pretty colors, deluxe sets, etc. I'm at the point if I want a physical copy of something, I'm getting the CD. Not only are they cheaper but in most cases, I don't have to worry about a CD of Kid A being unlistenable for the climax of one of the best songs on the album.
It's sad because there was a point in the mid-2010s where it really did feel like there was something special to the "vinyl experience" for me. But I just don't feel that same passion anymore. It feels more and more like buying vinyl is becoming something elitist, not so much in the snobby pretentious way, but in the sense that, if you're someone like me, a consumer who doesn't have the luxury of being able to risk $40 on a product that has the 50/50 chance of sounding no better than a digital stream with some surface noise, then the medium is no longer meant for you. The prices have increased while simultaneously the quality control has taken a massive downgrade and that just doesn't add up to me.
I don't know. Maybe I'm just short-sighted and making mountains out of molehills, but again I can only speak to my personal experience and this is just how I feel about the state of vinyl in 2022.
debianlinux
Well-Known Member
This is the real crux. I mostly, kind of agree with what you are saying but this point is inarguable and really reflects on the general luxury items market for middle class people altogether. High prices can often be a disguise for poor QC. In this market the competition for the actual means of production is extremely limited. It's overrrun in the face of a demand that outstrips the ability to maintain proper QC and there is no real consequences for abdicating it.
It's amazing to me that more players haven't stepped up to make a more competitive market and it seems like there is a palpable sense that it cannot continue and thus it never happens. This inverse relationship of price to quality that is developing may be the thing that either drives healthy competition or becomes the self fulfillment of the idea that it can't survive.
While I see CDs as being damned near perfect for portable, repeatable listening, my generation definitely appreciates what was lost to CDs as well which is fairly hard to articulate if you weren't there for the transition. The loudness wars that ensued I think soured us on CDs as well. I digress, I just wanted to kind of counterpoint that for a large swath of the vinyl buying market that is older than you it's not nearly as much about status as it is about culture. We will forever experience that immediate throwback to childhood core self that the smell of a LP sleeve, or dropping the needle on a piece of wax can elicit the way it does for those who grew up with vinyl records as the default and inarguably sonicly superior means by which music was enjoyed at that time.
I think a lot of this is about conditioning of a generation in ways not related to fandom or music but it has affected it in those areas. This a lot of unsubstantiated theory so feel free to like and subscribe rip it up, but I think of how the last 15 years or so have dramatically changed what it means to be a fan of something and how one's identity is developed.
I think back to even the early 2000s, the peak of the CD era, before digital portable music really came into being. What made you a fan of a band? Maybe you say you are. Maybe you own the CD and can play it in a walkman or on a home system or in some cars. Maybe you have some mall sourced merch or a concert shirt (woah). If you're lucky you have a group fans and can have a communal bond in this, or you and a partner fall for the same band. I guess my main point is a lot of fandom is shown through experience - especially shared experience or it's obvious in another manner (what is he listening to in his headphones). Now? Well, music is rarely sold as a discrete item and consumed that way in public view - streaming is dominant and in fifteen seconds I can pull up Hey Jude and then switch to Runaway and then to the Safety Dance. Maybe I'm the fancy pants with Tidal and the expensive headphones, or maybe one of the millions with Airpods, or I'm rocking 10 dollar Panasonic earbuds - but none of this is about taste. Concerts are rarer over the past couple years and if you want them, the internet exists to get pretty much any merch that was there for the right price. You have self-curated internet communities where the fandom is often both remote but dramatically more intense. In 2000 if I had an Everclear shirt at school I wasthe guy with questionable taste the Everclear guy - now? Maybe less so if I wear a Phoebe shirt (well I would get bad looks but like 15 year old version of me...)
So what do we turn to? Well - proving one's fandom is different. The bar is much higher in terms of both awareness of what can be and who you're encountering. Like, Phoebe, if you have a group of 1,000 people, I am going to guess not many know who Phoebe Bridgers is and of those who do, maybe a small group of those consider themselves fans. On the internet though? If you don't have Stranger in the Alps known back to front who even are you? That may sound harsh but I think it's true in the minds of folks. It's why every week on Reddit there is someone begging for a purple version of SitA when the black version is 1/10 of the price and easy to find (and sounds better). The purple makes you feel special. It makes you feel better about your fandom. Or your identity.
So what am I going to here? Well, I think it's a few things. First, I think the main gist is right but I want to posit it a bit differently - I don't think it's status, I think it's self-identity. The pond is so much bigger now than it was and it's so much easier to see across now - a vinyl record is aesthetically pleasing, easy to show off actively or passively, and often represents and investment that is outsized for what it costs. GA mentions Mach Hommy...that $200 record is still cheaper than some of the clothes on his web store. Phoebe who I mentioned? The vinyl is cheaper than her shirts or hoodies. I know because I have both. Second, it's so much harder to be "something" now than it was. The world is scarier, the communities are more obvious but also more difficult to stand out in, and awareness is 24/7 - I think it leads to an inherent need to have that backing of your something - something new for the masses - and while that may be status, I'd also say it's comfort and assurance. Third, it's not like current trendsetters and makers of popular music (or high quality labels) are really trying to give people a choice of getting that high quality product. What's the newest artist that has a MoFi? Train? Weezer? Beck? Most of the top selling QRP records are by artists who are dead or playing shuffeboard on a yacht somewhere. I think the market is forcing vinyl consumers to consume it as a status or self-identity symbol instead of as a musical symbol, not the other way around.
Plus like...not for nothing but the only CD player I own is in my car. I bet a lot of people don't own one. especially in younger generations. We can deride Crosleys and Victrolas all we want but a record you can play is still better than a CD you can't, and I think there's a real argument that the change in popular music to lyric-heavy/statement-heavy tunes has reduced the importance for many of audio fidelity in their sourcing.
I think back to even the early 2000s, the peak of the CD era, before digital portable music really came into being. What made you a fan of a band? Maybe you say you are. Maybe you own the CD and can play it in a walkman or on a home system or in some cars. Maybe you have some mall sourced merch or a concert shirt (woah). If you're lucky you have a group fans and can have a communal bond in this, or you and a partner fall for the same band. I guess my main point is a lot of fandom is shown through experience - especially shared experience or it's obvious in another manner (what is he listening to in his headphones). Now? Well, music is rarely sold as a discrete item and consumed that way in public view - streaming is dominant and in fifteen seconds I can pull up Hey Jude and then switch to Runaway and then to the Safety Dance. Maybe I'm the fancy pants with Tidal and the expensive headphones, or maybe one of the millions with Airpods, or I'm rocking 10 dollar Panasonic earbuds - but none of this is about taste. Concerts are rarer over the past couple years and if you want them, the internet exists to get pretty much any merch that was there for the right price. You have self-curated internet communities where the fandom is often both remote but dramatically more intense. In 2000 if I had an Everclear shirt at school I was
So what do we turn to? Well - proving one's fandom is different. The bar is much higher in terms of both awareness of what can be and who you're encountering. Like, Phoebe, if you have a group of 1,000 people, I am going to guess not many know who Phoebe Bridgers is and of those who do, maybe a small group of those consider themselves fans. On the internet though? If you don't have Stranger in the Alps known back to front who even are you? That may sound harsh but I think it's true in the minds of folks. It's why every week on Reddit there is someone begging for a purple version of SitA when the black version is 1/10 of the price and easy to find (and sounds better). The purple makes you feel special. It makes you feel better about your fandom. Or your identity.
So what am I going to here? Well, I think it's a few things. First, I think the main gist is right but I want to posit it a bit differently - I don't think it's status, I think it's self-identity. The pond is so much bigger now than it was and it's so much easier to see across now - a vinyl record is aesthetically pleasing, easy to show off actively or passively, and often represents and investment that is outsized for what it costs. GA mentions Mach Hommy...that $200 record is still cheaper than some of the clothes on his web store. Phoebe who I mentioned? The vinyl is cheaper than her shirts or hoodies. I know because I have both. Second, it's so much harder to be "something" now than it was. The world is scarier, the communities are more obvious but also more difficult to stand out in, and awareness is 24/7 - I think it leads to an inherent need to have that backing of your something - something new for the masses - and while that may be status, I'd also say it's comfort and assurance. Third, it's not like current trendsetters and makers of popular music (or high quality labels) are really trying to give people a choice of getting that high quality product. What's the newest artist that has a MoFi? Train? Weezer? Beck? Most of the top selling QRP records are by artists who are dead or playing shuffeboard on a yacht somewhere. I think the market is forcing vinyl consumers to consume it as a status or self-identity symbol instead of as a musical symbol, not the other way around.
Plus like...not for nothing but the only CD player I own is in my car. I bet a lot of people don't own one. especially in younger generations. We can deride Crosleys and Victrolas all we want but a record you can play is still better than a CD you can't, and I think there's a real argument that the change in popular music to lyric-heavy/statement-heavy tunes has reduced the importance for many of audio fidelity in their sourcing.
TenderLovingKiller®
Well-Known Member
You do you Gap. If Vinyl doesn’t make you happy then you would be silly to keep on spending our hard earned money on it.
For me, I started collecting because of the novelty and affordability of vinyl in the mid 00s. As a kid I primarily collected CDs and used to cherish them. Unfortunately the prevalence of CD-Rs cheapened CDs for me to the point that I would have hundreds scattered about my car and apartment and once they became that meaningless I couldn’t rationalize paying $20 for a jewel case and album art. I valued the affordability and uniqueness of vinyl then now that it is more expensive and more prevalent I don’t value it in the same way but I still appreciate the media for what it is especially knowing that even now at it’s peak of popularity it’s still a fairly niche market.
Again, that is me and it’s probably a bit generational. CDs were probably fairly antiquated when you started collecting music and nowadays you’d be hard pressed to find a laptop with a CD-Rom let alone a burner.
debianlinux
Well-Known Member
@waruv nailed down better than I could behind why I ever collected records to begin. There was a decent amount of time post Napster that I did not have a table but I kept buying vinyl because I viewed CDs as inferior to digital files (still do) but I wanted to not only compensate the artist but to also homage my Fandom). Those same records have had their value soar to the point that I keep listening to the digital in the name of keeping the vinyl unmolested.
To add to my earlier cultural point; the vinyl record represents one of the few unchanged vestiges of my generation's history. We went from airwave broadcast media to the internet. Photography, notes, basically all correspondence, went from film and paper to digital. How we interact with media, each other, and the world around us is fundamentally shifted across the board. Enter the vinyl record where the most current music media still fits a form factor that never changed for us.
It's another form of self-identity, really. I literally finance the conservation of what would otherwise be an anachronistic medium.
To add to my earlier cultural point; the vinyl record represents one of the few unchanged vestiges of my generation's history. We went from airwave broadcast media to the internet. Photography, notes, basically all correspondence, went from film and paper to digital. How we interact with media, each other, and the world around us is fundamentally shifted across the board. Enter the vinyl record where the most current music media still fits a form factor that never changed for us.
It's another form of self-identity, really. I literally finance the conservation of what would otherwise be an anachronistic medium.
Nee Lewman
बैस्टर्ड
In what world are concerts more rare now or am I missing something?
Nee Lewman
बैस्टर्ड
I said it over in the New Music Friday thread, but I'll be a little more inflammatory here. The new Beach House is fine if you want sleepy time Pet Shop Boys.
BjorgenFjorgen
Well-Known Member
Maybe in recent history and depending where you live? I've had half a dozen shows I'd had tickets for cancelled in the last couple months due to restrictions, and I'm only starting to get optimistic about shows now. That's after 18 months with no shows, one small masked show, and then three more months of no shows. Other than that I don't know either.
Nee Lewman
बैस्टर्ड
I mean the pandemic is an outlier, not a new status quo. I went to a show recently and I'm not ready for more until things quiet down some. Seems like everything here is back to full swing though.
BjorgenFjorgen
Well-Known Member
Right, I totally agree. That's what I meant by recent history; just feels like the way it kinda is now, though I know it'll change.
Nee Lewman
बैस्टर्ड
Just for fair play and what not.... I don't want people to think its some kind of vendetta with Beach House. Shovels and Ropes is another band that everything says they should be a band I dig. However, that being said, even though they fall under that big Umbrella of Americana (which is right there with Soul as music I just can't get enough of), and lots of people seem to love them, I find them boring. I say this because I'm listening to the new one and it might as well be that Beach House album. It just makes me sleepy and sad that I don't like it.
The pandemic had a year or so without concerts and the vinyl hobby exploded during it. You add in many shows having a vax or test requirement (with many people not being vaccinated or not being allowed to) and prices jumping up a ton for tickets, with COVID cancellations, it adds up to fewer shows from the perspective of many fans.
Given the discussion was on recent changes in the hobby that was the context of this.
Ericj32
Well-Known Member
I’m not arguing one way or another on this, but I think it’s cool how the pandemic spurred so many bands to engage with their fans around the world in new ways through livestreams and live chats.
During the pandemic I attended:
- Glass animals livestreamed concert (with guest appearance by a then-relatively-unknown Arlo Parks)
- Mae - including a free zoom call after the show with the band that went on for like 4 hours
- Julien Baker
- Tallest Man on Earth (with live Q/A after show)
- Bjork
- Dandy Warhols
-Bombay Bicycle Club
- Iceland Airwaves festival (featuring Asgeir, Of Monsters and Men, Emiliana Torrini, Marketa Irglova, and Olafur Arnalds, among others)
- Embrace (UK)
- Jimmy Eat World (3 shows)
- Joseph (3 shows)
- The Decemberists (3 shows, each with live chat after show)
Most of these included a live chat for fans to chat with each other and, more than once, invited each other to connect via discord or facebook groups. In many cases, there were opportunities to interact directly with band members and ask them questions. Normally, in live shows, those kind of vip experiences cost at least $100, but the benefit of these virtual interactions is that you don’t have to compete with all of the fans mobbing the band for pictures and/or autographs (none of that is really possible) and all that’s left is commenting on the music or sharing gratitude or asking questions. It’s not a replacement for the energy of a live show, but it’s a new way for fans to establish a connection with the band (and a new revenue stream for bands that couldn’t tour).
Joe Mac
Well-Known Member
Dunno if things are different there cuz you went down a different pandemic road across the pond but our live market is only just reopening again and it’s building slowly, I’d say it’ll be the summer, or later, before we are back to 2019 concert levels.
gaporter
Well-Known Member
I get there's such a thing as mood music but Beach House really are a baffling phenomenon to me. I guess it's just one of those things where you either get it or you don't, but I struggle to think of many other bands with such high acclaim that make such low-key samey sounding music. I'm not trying to shit on people who like them or anything, I just genuinely don't understand what people are hearing in them to merit all the rapturous praise.
Viking Dan
Well-Known Member
Ye is here to try and change that for you.
Kanye West And Beach House Hit The Studio Together
Kanye West just released a version of his new album Donda 2 exclusively on his Donda Stem Player. The first 16 tracks feature Migos, Jack Harlow, Soulja Boy, Travis Scott, and more… and the next batch might end up featuring beloved indie band Beach House.
www.stereogum.com
gaporter
Well-Known Member
Hey, who knows, maybe more hip-hop collaborations will be what it takes. The Beach House sample in Kendrick's "Money Trees" goes hard.Ye is here to try and change that for you.
Kanye West And Beach House Hit The Studio Together
Kanye West just released a version of his new album Donda 2 exclusively on his Donda Stem Player. The first 16 tracks feature Migos, Jack Harlow, Soulja Boy, Travis Scott, and more… and the next batch might end up featuring beloved indie band Beach House.
TenderLovingKiller®
Well-Known Member
The Weeknd and Childish Gambino also sampled Beach House tracks early in their career.