It Could Get A Bit Messi In Here - The Football Thread.

Dtknuckles said:
This is why I think is not a great way to look at it. USWNT is ahead of developing players because of where the US in general was in women sports compared to the rest of the world. The men won't generate the same level because they are way behind in the infrastructure in developing. players.

But this is also why revenge should have been to focus. I can be the best in the world at something that doesn't generate that much money, but shouldn't be payed like a millionaire. I would think the best way to settle it would be to set a equal proportion of revenue for both teams. That way if revenue increases as the WT gains popularity they would get their share.
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Europe has great women's teams and has had great women's teams. So have China, Japan and Australia. The more up and coming teams I was speaking of are the island teams, the south american teams, the smaller asian country teams. It isn't like the USWNT has been playing completely outmatched teams for years. There definitely have been outmatched games but damn, just this past weekend, Spain had the USWNT's number until ... ahem ..... Ertz came through. (Can you all tell whom I think is the USWNT MVP???)

I agree with the revenue sharing. That's what I was trying to explain but you did it better.
 
Dtknuckles said:
This is why I think is not a great way to look at it. USWNT is ahead of developing players because of where the US in general was in women sports compared to the rest of the world. The men won't generate the same level because they are way behind in the infrastructure in developing. players.

But this is also why revenge should have been to focus. I can be the best in the world at something that doesn't generate that much money, but shouldn't be payed like a millionaire. I would think the best way to settle it would be to set a equal proportion of revenue for both teams. That way if revenue increases as the WT gains popularity they would get their share.
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I think that’s a weak argument. Through no fault of their own the women are in a sport that is miles behind the men’s in terms of cash and renown. even if the women’s game is spectacularly successful going forward I don’t think that the factors exist to cause an explosion in popularity to rival mens football. It’s a complete outlier in terms of any sport in its seeming institutional ability to multiply growth, even through recession.

The US men’s team has benifitied from this financially, through the money it gets from being in world cups, without having put a proportion of the work in or having been even remotely as successful.

I think the best metric is that they are two groups of atheletes representing their country at the same sport and represented by the same body. Pay them the same wage for doing it.

Edit: oh wait sorry I didn’t follow what you were saying that well, you were arguing this 😂
 
Teeeee said:
Europe has great women's teams and has had great women's teams. So have China, Japan and Australia. The more up and coming teams I was speaking of are the island teams, the south american teams, the smaller asian country teams. It isn't like the USWNT has been playing completely outmatched teams for years. There definitely have been outmatched games but damn, just this past weekend, Spain had the USWNT's number until ... ahem ..... Ertz came through. (Can you all tell whom I think is the USWNT MVP???)

I agree with the revenue sharing. That's what I was trying to explain but you did it better.
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This is true but yourselves and China were really the two countries that took womens football and drove it forward. The traditional powers in Europe and South America were late to the table.

I mean, shockingly the FA in England banned women’s football from being played at its members facilities between 1921 and 1971, effectively killing the game in England for 50 years.
 
Joe Mac said:
The Gold Cup isn’t taken seriously in senior men’s football. The Mexicans are the only serious team and they tend to send second string sides and focus on getting one of the guest slots in the Copa America. Let’s not go thinking of it even alongside the Copa, the Euros or even the African Nations Cup.

When you counter that the women have won the World Cup, the pinnacle of the international game, multiple times I think you are beginning to get to the point i was making.

If we’re being hyper critical. Donovan. Your greatest ever men’s player? At best he was an above average Premier League right winger when he came over here. How many of the worlds greatest ever women footballers has the US produced?
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Clint Dempsey's time with Fulham and his cup of coffee with Tottenham were much more productive than any of Donovan's time in the PL. Obviously still not that impressive, but I feel like he's consistently forgotten for having a solid few years.
 
Joe Mac said:
The Gold Cup isn’t taken seriously in senior men’s football. The Mexicans are the only serious team and they tend to send second string sides and focus on getting one of the guest slots in the Copa America. Let’s not go thinking of it even alongside the Copa, the Euros or even the African Nations Cup.

When you counter that the women have won the World Cup, the pinnacle of the international game, multiple times I think you are beginning to get to the point i was making.

If we’re being hyper critical. Donovan. Your greatest ever men’s player? At best he was an above average Premier League right winger when he came over here. How many of the worlds greatest ever women footballers has the US produced?
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Considering that in my generation we went from fielding a team of college kids. To consistently winning the Gold Cup during the time Donavan was playing. I would say that is a big jump. That is an accomplishment to commended. The same could be said of our WC performances.

Yea I know most of our top players aren't on the level of other players around the world that is not in question. Whatever you think of Donavan's personality @Teeeee I got to see a lot of him while playing with Robbie Kean at the Galaxy. When he had the space he knew what to do with the ball. Yea, it was MLS it was much easier for him to get space, but he had the brain.
 
sahomerrocks said:
Clint Dempsey's time with Fulham and his cup of coffee with Tottenham were much more productive than any of Donovan's time in the PL. Obviously still not that impressive, but I feel like he's consistently forgotten for having a solid few years.
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Yeah you are correct, he did have more of an impact. The end of his time at Fulham was particularly impressive. He was there for longer than a six month loan though which helped too, I remember it took him a while to settle. I still think Friedal is the best American player to play in England. His years at Blackburn, the last good Villa side and Spurs were pretty impressive.
 
Joe Mac said:
Yeah you are correct, he did have more of an impact. The end of his time at Fulham was particularly impressive. He was there for longer than a six month loan though which helped too, I remember it took him a while to settle. I still think Friedal is the best American player to play in England. His years at Blackburn, the last good Villa side and Spurs were pretty impressive.
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Most promising young Americans in professional leagues abroad are in the Bundesliga right now so that probably won't be changing anytime soon. Jurgen Klinsmann is a confirmed dingus, especially after what just happened with Hertha Berlin, but one promising thing he did with the national team was to go after dual nationals and encourage younger players to go to Europe. The current heads of the USMNT seem to be doing everything possible to reverse that. Any gains MLS has done to move American mens' soccer forward has done exponentially more for other CONCACAF countries, imo.
 
Joe Mac said:
Yeah you are correct, he did have more of an impact. The end of his time at Fulham was particularly impressive. He was there for longer than a six month loan though which helped too, I remember it took him a while to settle. I still think Friedal is the best American player to play in England. His years at Blackburn, the last good Villa side and Spurs were pretty impressive.
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Dempsey has more time over in Europe. Donvan went at an early age and couldn't handle it.
Dempsey obviously had more of an impact in Europe, less so on the national team.

Donavan did more for the USMNT.
 
Dtknuckles said:
Dempsey has more time over in Europe. Donvan went at an early age and couldn't handle it.
Dempsey obviously had more of an impact in Europe, less so on the national team.

Donavan did more for the USMNT.
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When you assess talent you do it at the highest level they played at. The Premier League is the higher level. I’d still put Brad above them both.
 
Joe Mac said:
The US men’s team has benifitied from this financially, through the money it gets from being in world cups, without having put a proportion of the work in or having been even remotely as successful.
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I would argue they have put more work in. There is no extensive club league for women like there is for men's football.
 
Dtknuckles said:
Considering that in my generation we went from fielding a team of college kids. To consistently winning the Gold Cup during the time Donavan was playing. I would say that is a big jump. That is an accomplishment to commended. The same could be said of our WC performances.

Yea I know most of our top players aren't on the level of other players around the world that is not in question. Whatever you think of Donavan's personality @Teeeee I got to see a lot of him while playing with Robbie Kean at the Galaxy. When he had the space he knew what to do with the ball. Yea, it was MLS it was much easier for him to get space, but he had the brain.
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Ha, I really shouldn't have said anything. I am by no means at all familiar enough with the play of any male footballer to have an opinion. Lol

While I was out at lunch, I got an alert that CBS and the WSL have signed a deal to start airing the games. Which is awesome!!!!
 
Joe Mac said:
Could you expand your point please?I’m not sure what you mean.
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I may be mistaken, but the women don't really have a league and therefore aren't required to practice daily. That is why they play so many tournaments. While the men have professional leagues are required to practice pretty much daily. The men just don't get the same results because the the US is behind in men's football. I think that they should each get the same portion of the revenues that their respective team generates.
 
Joe Mac said:
I think that’s a weak argument. Through no fault of their own the women are in a sport that is miles behind the men’s in terms of cash and renown. even if the women’s game is spectacularly successful going forward I don’t think that the factors exist to cause an explosion in popularity to rival mens football. It’s a complete outlier in terms of any sport in its seeming institutional ability to multiply growth, even through recession.

The US men’s team has benifitied from this financially, through the money it gets from being in world cups, without having put a proportion of the work in or having been even remotely as successful.

I think the best metric is that they are two groups of atheletes representing their country at the same sport and represented by the same body. Pay them the same wage for doing it.

Edit: oh wait sorry I didn’t follow what you were saying that well, you were arguing this 😂
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I think this nails it. The women's teams across the world have not have the backing (be it emotional, mental, facilities, financial, etc) to attain the level of play that the men have in some countries. This is not women's fault. This is patriarchy. Women can not and should not be punished for not being given the same opportunities and tools to succeed that men have.

The USWNT schedule for the last year has been grueling. From WC prep to the start of the WSL to the WC back to the WSL and then to the victory tour then the Olympic qualifiers, the She Believes Cup, the start of the WSL, some friendlies, the Olympics and then back to the WSL. And it will not stop until October when the WSL finals are over. That is 2 years of non-stop toil on their bodies, minds and families. What other athlete has that? And they are not complaining about it. They are still showing up for every game, putting in the work, playing at their high level.

They deserve equal pay.
 
Dtknuckles said:
I may be mistaken, but the women don't really have a league and therefore aren't required to practice daily. That is why they play so many tournaments. While the men have professional leagues are required to practice pretty much daily. The men just don't get the same results because the the US is behind in men's football. I think that they should each get the same portion of the revenues that their respective team generates.
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The women do have a league. And the USWNT players are required to play in that league. Pre season just started this week. And the finals are in Oct. North Carolina won last year.
 
Dtknuckles said:
I may be mistaken, but the women don't really have a league and therefore aren't required to practice daily. That is why they play so many tournaments. While the men have professional leagues are required to practice pretty much daily. The men just don't get the same results because the the US is behind in men's football. I think that they should each get the same portion of the revenues that their respective team generates.
Click to expand...

I disagree, I think it should be actual equal pay. Same money for the same job. The men’s team is benefiting from the money made by the international men’s game more than its own achievements. If we’re going that way Europe and South America wants all the money form mens international football, which would be an absurd state of affairs.
 
I'm just so happy that we've had more than a page of a discussion about the USWNT! They are the team I follow the most and I always wanted to join in when Joe and Woke Up would get going about football. Thank you all for making my day. :)
 
Teeeee said:
I'm just so happy that we've had more than a page of a discussion about the USWNT! They are the team I follow the most and I always wanted to join in when Joe and Woke Up would get going about football. Thank you all for making my day. :)
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it’s a pity it’s not about the actual football though, that’s gotta be a goal for the next time! I’d watch this tournament at the moment but it’s on in the middle of the night!
 
Joe Mac said:
it’s a pity it’s not about the actual football though, that’s gotta be a goal for the next time! I’d watch this tournament at the moment but it’s on in the middle of the night!
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I would love you to watch a game and chat with me about it. I have a group text with friends that gets going during games. But those friends each have 2 kids so they get distracted. And I text with my mom and sister but I feel like it is just me giving ted talks to them about the players throughout the game. Lol I do love when my mom says something like, "OMG, Tobin's footwork is amazing" or "Julie Ertz is all over the field" or "wow, Rose's left foot is awesome". I feel like I contributed to that knowledge.

The game is on tonight at 8pm EST. Maybe @wokeupnew will watch and chat with me tomorrow?

During the Olympics, I expect Joe and Woke Up to chat lots and lots about the women's games. :) (Even though I think it is a goddamn travesty that the pool is only 12 teams for the women and 16 for the men and because of this, France - one of the best women's teams in the world, is not in the olympics).
 
Teeeee said:
I would love you to watch a game and chat with me about it. I have a group text with friends that gets going during games. But those friends each have 2 kids so they get distracted. And I text with my mom and sister but I feel like it is just me giving ted talks to them about the players throughout the game. Lol I do love when my mom says something like, "OMG, Tobin's footwork is amazing" or "Julie Ertz is all over the field" or "wow, Rose's left foot is awesome". I feel like I contributed to that knowledge.

The game is on tonight at 8pm EST. Maybe @wokeupnew will watch and chat with me tomorrow?

During the Olympics, I expect Joe and Woke Up to chat lots and lots about the women's games. :) (Even though I think it is a goddamn travesty that the pool is only 12 teams for the women and 16 for the men and because of this, France - one of the best women's teams in the world, is not in the olympics).
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Really?

Mens football should not be in the olympics. The olympics should be the pinnacle of the sports in it and should shine a light on sports that dont dominate already. The World Cup, the continental tournaments and even the European cup at club level are much bigger in men’s football and it really does not need more money or exposure. And then to make it worse it’s only an under 23 competitions.

Kicks the boys completion out and have a full 32 nation women’s football tournament in the olympics. That’s my solution!
 
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