Kanye

[Jonathan Y]

I've seen the Chance comparison elsewhere as well, and I don't get it. Chance made a bold move with Coloring Book, and while The Big Day isn't as gospel-infused, I don't get any impression his gospel sound was a failure, nor was it derided. Quite the opposite, and it's weird to say JIK has vindicated him or will cause him to change direction.

While Coloring Book had gospel moments, most of the features and themes, were far from it. I meant exclusively a christian.gospel album

 

[Jonathan Y]

I dont see any of those things as positives is more what I meant.

Fair enough. I think Christian Hip- Hop/Rap potentially getting new ppl to look is good.

I also think Chance doing a proper album would be awesome because I think Kanye can learn from him about incorporating themes without coming across in a preachy way, amongst other things. Kanye is born again. Chance never left.

Do I think ppl seeking a relationship cuz of Kanye is garbage reasoning? 100%...Just observations from twitter, reddit, etc. (may be jokes, trolls, or it may be genuine. Who am i to judge)

My favorite full circle moment tho is realizing Kanye was wrong. He talked about God over the entire album, and went #1. Pushing 300K first week (more than the wyoming projects)

 

[Woob_woob]

They may be in hater mode, but it’s still an indicator that any references Kanye makes about slavery are likely to call that episode to mind. I’d bet a lot of people made that connection involuntarily. I did.

Yea if you look at that one line out of context, sure. For normal people to hear that line and think of his slavery is a choice comments is perfectly fine, but for a critical review of the album to take that line out of context like CoS did is poor review procedure. It comes off as click baiting imo.

Too many of the reviews for this album are about Kanye the person and not JiK which has been extremely disappointing

 

[Woob_woob]

Yupp, and this generation is incredibly lost imo(13-18 yo). So I think more of this is needed. We are in a time where alot of their time is spent on technology and devices (they aren't looking up bible verses)

When i was in elementary school almost all my friends did first communion after their CCD classes. Confirmation in high school, etc. We were all in young life.

That isnt the case anymore. It hardly exists. So if kids use Kanye as something to hide behind and pursue a relationship with God....that is not as bad as no relationship. I think.

Hard disagrees all around. That first line is extremely "old man yells at cloud"

 

[Jonathan Y]

Hard disagrees all around. That first line is extremely "old man yells at cloud"

Observations from working in child care, dating a woman with a young child for a couple years, and my cousins.

However, I know this differs state by state and all that. Ignore my observations! Just opinions based off what i've heard or seen

I was in that age range less than a decade ago so maybe I shouldnt call it

 

[Woob_woob]

Observations from working in child care, dating a woman with a young child for a couple years, and my cousins.

However, I know this differs state by state and all that. Ignore my observations! Just opinions based off what i've heard or seen

I was in that age range less than a decade ago so maybe I shouldnt call it

I'm just saying every older generation thinks the younger generation is "lost" and it's a bad look imo

 

[Bull Shannon]

While Coloring Book had gospel moments, most of the features and themes, were far from it. I meant exclusively a christian.gospel album

Despite less smacking-you-with-my-faith-mallet in Coloring Book and TBD, I detected more belief in God from those albums and got a fuller portrait of someone living in and expressing their faith. In terms of making a joyful noise and expressing deep humility and love for one's God, Chance has been far more successful for me than Ye has been.

 

[Woob_woob]

While Coloring Book had gospel moments, most of the features and themes, were far from it. I meant exclusively a christian.gospel album

JiK isnt a gospel album tho. Christian rap? 100% But outside of the intro there isnt much Gospel imo

 

[Jonathan Y]

I'm just saying every older generation thinks the younger generation is "lost" and it's a bad look imo

That was a gross generalization on my part. I just think over the last 20 years religion has gone from being priority in the house to a back burner IN MOST HOMES. So the relationship with God has been lost, more so than when I was a kid, in my opinion.

Celebs are worshipped more than ever before and that lead me to my generalizations. Sorry!

 

[Jonathan Y]

Despite less smacking-you-with-my-faith-mallet in Coloring Book and TBD, I detected more belief in God from those albums and got a fuller portrait of someone living in and expressing their faith. In terms of making a joyful noise and expressing deep humility and love for one's God, Chance has been far more successful for me than Ye has been.

JiK isnt a gospel album tho. Christian rap? 100% But outside of the intro there isnt much Gospel imo

JiK isnt a gospel album tho. Christian rap? 100% But outside of the intro there isnt much Gospel imo

The last part was supposed to say Christian/Gospel because I see some elements of both in each. Yes JIK isnt really gospel at all. However I don't think Chance really dove in, as someone who grew up in the church and choir.

I hope Kanye's faith opens the door for Chance to be more up front with his next effort, if he goes there at all. Chance can fill the voids in kanye's effort imo! JIK has holes in it, but it is a solid base.

How Great is Our God, Blessings, and the intro were really the only ones from Coloring Book imo. I could be forgetting a song or two tho

 

[Bull Shannon]

How Great is Our God, Blessings, and the intro were really the only ones from Coloring Book imo. I could be forgetting a song or two tho

I'd recommend going back to both of Chance's recent albums and taking note of the lyrics which evoke god/faith despite not being those you cited as having titles overtly about god or faith. Also, the sound across many songs evokes gospel, even if the song isn't about God.

 

[Woob_woob]

That was a gross generalization on my part. I just think over the last 20 years religion has gone from being priority in the house to a back burner IN MOST HOMES.

If you make X number of albums that are all about you, and then an album that is all about a new purpose in your life, I think you should expect that the reviews are going to be about you to a great extent, too.

And I have no problem with that being part of the review but most of the reviews I've seen barely talk about the music at all.

 

[Jonathan Y]

I...don’t think I agree. The book Kanye is ostensibly preaching from has a whole lot to say about false prophets and purveyors of faith with ulterior motives. But I also come from a non-Catholic tradition that is historically a lot less comfortable with having someone mediate my relationship with God, too.

You are judging/questioning his faith and motives? Instead of being "a desciple of Christ who is in service to God" (his words) you think it's not genuine.

Yea, this is a big reason why some people get uncomfortable about sharing their religious beliefs or ideas. He actually mentions ppl having this opnion ^^ in 'No Hands' I believe

Are their kids that get made fun of for being any denomination of religion? Yes, more so now a days.

Could a bullied kid pull a Kanye card out when getting made fun of? Yes, that is my opinion. Maybe that was worded wrong originally idk

 

[Jonathan Y]

I'd recommend going back to both of Chance's recent albums and taking note of the lyrics which evoke god/faith despite not being those you cited as having titles overtly about god or faith. Also, the sound across many songs evokes gospel, even if the song isn't about God.

I will spin Coloring Book when I get home, as I mentioned I could be forgetting some. Hoping you could share, but I will do my homework lol

No problems, Juke Jam, All Night, Mixtape, Same Drugs, Smoke Break dont for me

I will relisten to Angels, Finish Line, and Summer Friends tho

 

[BjorgenFjorgen]

You are judging/questioning his faith and motives? Instead of being "a desciple of Christ who is in service to God" (his words) you think it's not genuine.

Yea, this is a big reason why some people get uncomfortable about sharing their religious beliefs or ideas. He actually mentions ppl having this opnion ^^ in 'No Hands' I believe

Are their kids that get made fun of for being any denomination of religion? Yes, more so now a days.

Could a bullied kid pull a Kanye card out when getting made fun of? Yes, that is my opinion. Maybe that was worded wrong originally idk

He might be genuine. No real way to know someone else's relationship to God, and I would never presume to try. He might also be as misguided as most modern evangelicals, who knows. But a $165+ hoodie with the words "Holy Spirit" plastered across it sold under a tent that says "Church Clothes" calls to mind some sellers of doves in a certain temple, I dunno.

 

[Jonathan Y]

His portrayal of Christianity in song heavily suggests to me that he doesn’t have a very good understanding of it.

Yes, as a born again Christian I was expecting base-level lines, and that is what he got. Does that mean it's not genuine? I don't think so. I think it's fresh and exciting and he wants to share. I don't think lack of knowledge should disqualify him, and like I mentioned before, makes it more accessible to born-agains, converts, etc. It's basic, not heavy scripture.

Also, God doesn't care how u arrive, as long as u show up

He has employees (much like a church that collects the offering) So yea I imagine the people traveling the country are happy people are buying religious merch to fund their project and lives! Is it corny? Yea? Does it seem like a money grab? Yes, but I think he needed it for the ppl involved. Coachella had like 300 singers it seemed throughout the entire crowd @BjorgenFjorgen

 

[Memo]

Well, I think my comment was really aimed at the idea that it’s okay for kids to “hide behind” his faith as an entry point and/or filter through which they learn about Christianity. Mostly, I think that’s not a great thing, IMO, because above all I think Kanye is

[brace for impact]

kinda dumb.

His portrayal of Christianity in song heavily suggests to me that he doesn’t have a very good understanding of it.

This is also could be attributed to a 'new believer'. It would be great to see him mature in his faith and see where he takes his music.
He's definitely changed, and there's a freedom in his voice and mannerism that cannot be faked.

If other people view this as an entry way, rather than as a substitute, then it serves it's purpose.
Butit begs the question, where is the heart more positioned towards, Kanye or God.

 

[Jonathan Y]

FWIW historical Jesus scholars disagree wildly on the significance of that story for a first century audience. Modern readings usually make the assumption that the money changers were somehow being greedy, dishonest, or were profaning the temple somehow, but many scholars believe that they provided a necessary and widely appreciated service, and that Jesus’ motives in that story are very difficult to understand definitively from the texts.

I mean theres pope foam fingers, pennants, hats, beer steins, and more for John Paul II rest his soul

Not sure who i agree or disagree with LOL (i gotta get back to work) just thought of the baseball like PJII pennant i used to have

 

[BjorgenFjorgen]

FWIW historical Jesus scholars disagree wildly on the significance of that story for a first century audience. Modern readings usually make the assumption that the money changers were somehow being greedy, dishonest, or were profaning the temple somehow, but many scholars believe that they provided a necessary and widely appreciated service, and that Jesus’ motives in that story are very difficult to understand definitively from the texts.

That's, um, an interesting interpretation, but I will go read some of them and leave it at that.

 

[BjorgenFjorgen]

I mean theres pope foam fingers, pennants, hats, beer steins, and more for John Paul II rest his soul

Yeah, more than one thing in the world can be dog shit.