Le Son LS-10 Mk II Moving Coil Cartridge Review

Portland Sheriff said:
@HiFi Guy - My SAE 1000LT has run its course, and I hope I didn’t fuck up some records b4 I figured it out.

My Mastertracker still has good useful life in it, so I’m going to reinstall that for the short term. But it had a lot of use before I bought the SAE, so it’s not long for this world either.

I’m thinking about this Le Son as the replacement. Do you think it’s a good match for the Ultradeck? I don’t want to overbuy on a cartridge. I think it’s in range, and specs seem to match up well, but I’d appreciate your — and anyone else’s — thoughts.
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Out of curiosity, are you planning to retip the SAE?
 
Portland Sheriff said:
I didn’t know that was an option, but I guess I also didn’t really think about it to know one way or another.

I forget the name of the retip place I’ve seen mentioned in other threads. Do you know of one? I really liked the SAE and, aside from wanting something different for the sake of something different and possible (likely?) improvement in sound quality, I’d definitely consider a retip over buying new bc of the $ savings.
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I think VAS in New Jersey is known for their retipping work. There's also SoundSmith, of course, but I think they tend to be more expensive and have a bit longer turnaround.

edit: This isn't to say you shouldn't try a Le Son cart if it's calling to you. They look very cool. But I love my SAE 1000LT and am planning to rebuild it once it's sufficiently worn. Wanted to make sure you weren't planning to toss it. :)
 
Portland Sheriff said:
@HiFi Guy - My SAE 1000LT has run its course, and I hope I didn’t fuck up some records b4 I figured it out.

My Mastertracker still has good useful life in it, so I’m going to reinstall that for the short term. But it had a lot of use before I bought the SAE, so it’s not long for this world either.

I’m thinking about this Le Son as the replacement. Do you think it’s a good match for the Ultradeck? I don’t want to overbuy on a cartridge. I think it’s in range, and specs seem to match up well, but I’d appreciate your — and anyone else’s — thoughts.
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In your shoes, retip the SAE. The Le Son is better, but whether it’s $1k better only you can say. You do get a 60 day money back guarantee, but I’ll also say I regret selling my SAEs.
 
Portland Sheriff said:
Thank you for taking the time to chime in. I know you didn’t ask to be summoned for free advice, and I really appreciate it.

I’m sending the SAE to VAS today. One day I’ll upgrade the Ultradeck and then it will potentially make more sense for me to consider higher end carts. I probably would not have even asked about this had I realized to begin with that I can retip the SAE.
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what made you think the cart was done? just curious...been using my SAE for awhile. I think I have another spare but haven't really had a cart go past its expiration date yet so wanna make sure i know what to listen for!
 
MikeH said:
what made you think the cart was done? just curious...been using my SAE for awhile. I think I have another spare but haven't really had a cart go past its expiration date yet so wanna make sure i know what to listen for!
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I’m not 100% certain it’s done, but I had a series of weird situations with noise, distortion, and bizarre mistracking in the last week or so. The challenge is that it wasn’t on every record. But it was enough instances that i double checked VTF and antiskate, which were both fine. And the tonearm was still as parallel as it was the day i set it up to begin with. My VTF was approx 1.85, so not high, so my wear should have been normal.

Then i went back and looked at my install date (almost 19 months ago) and did a rough calculation using 10 hours/week as my average TT play time, which I think is both reliable and probably conservative. So that’s 820 hours but, again, i think that’s conservative. I do 5-10 on many if not most weekends. I’m guessing I’m at least at 1,000.

I don’t know what the life span should be, and I know it’s not an exact science. I thought it was supposed to be 1,000 or so based on a very vague recollection of something posted here, but then I saw much smaller numbers in online advice/commentary sites about carts generally, not specific to SAE.

All that, combined with what I also read about how a worn-out cart can damage records, led me to make a change. If I damage even one valuable record trying to eke out too many hours on the cart, it’ll cost me a significant % of the total cost of retipping.
 
Portland Sheriff said:
I’m not 100% certain it’s done, but I had a series of weird situations with noise, distortion, and bizarre mistracking in the last week or so. The challenge is that it wasn’t on every record. But it was enough instances that i double checked VTF and antiskate, which were both fine. And the tonearm was still as parallel as it was the day i set it up to begin with. My VTF was approx 1.85, so not high, so my wear should have been normal.

Then i went back and looked at my install date (almost 19 months ago) and did a rough calculation using 10 hours/week as my average TT play time, which I think is both reliable and probably conservative. So that’s 820 hours but, again, i think that’s conservative. I do 5-10 on many if not most weekends. I’m guessing I’m at least at 1,000.

I don’t know what the life span should be, and I know it’s not an exact science. I thought it was supposed to be 1,000 or so based on a very vague recollection of something posted here, but then I saw much smaller numbers in online advice/commentary sites about carts generally, not specific to SAE.

All that, combined with what I also read about how a worn-out cart can damage records, led me to make a change. If I damage even one valuable record trying to eke out too many hours on the cart, it’ll cost me a significant % of the total cost of retipping.
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I don't know if you already moved out but this guy is worth an inquiry also.
Traded some messages and he's legit for a retip source.

Security Measure

www.ebay.com www.ebay.com
 
Portland Sheriff said:
Thank you for taking the time to chime in. I know you didn’t ask to be summoned for free advice, and I really appreciate it.

I’m sending the SAE to VAS today. One day I’ll upgrade the Ultradeck and then it will potentially make more sense for me to consider higher end carts. I probably would not have even asked about this had I realized to begin with that I can retip the SAE.
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VAS has done a great job for me on both my Hanas.
 
Update on the SL1 Mk II:

I had the price wrong: it’s $499 including shipping with a 60 day money back guarantee.

It has the boron nitride (white) cantilever like the top of the line LS 10 Mk II.

It uses a powerful lightweight magnet for higher output and fewer coil windings made of 6n pure copper. So lower moving mass but still high output.

Can’t wait to check it out!
 
HiFi Guy said:
Update on the SL1 Mk II:

I had the price wrong: it’s $499 including shipping with a 60 day money back guarantee.

It has the boron nitride (white) cantilever like the top of the line LS 10 Mk II.

It uses a powerful lightweight magnet for higher output and fewer coil windings made of 6n pure copper. So lower moving mass but still high output.

Can’t wait to check it out!
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Whew that's a relief - $499 instead of $400 - that really ramps down the temptation.
Doesn't it?
Maybe?
👀
 
Angsty said:
Whew that's a relief - $499 instead of $400 - that really ramps down the temptation.
Doesn't it?
Maybe?
👀
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does for me - at $400 I may have pulled the trigger to try - given the higher end specs, and at $900 hard pass, way too much competition - made in china (even if that's a good thing) and considering they are lowering price on their top model to that level - obvs not sure what their cost basis is but they don't have any real brand equity just some reviews, and a nice story about china/founders - might have been smart to maybe think about a mid-premium strategy to gain some volume in sales as they build brand equity, $399/$799 - sell a few hundred/thousand demonstrate a bit of longevity and real passion for delivering, create some advocates on the boards, etc...then come out with a real premium product that can compete with the big boys at $1500...
 
bornard said:
does for me - at $400 I may have pulled the trigger to try - given the higher end specs, and at $900 hard pass, way too much competition - made in china (even if that's a good thing) and considering they are lowering price on their top model to that level - obvs not sure what their cost basis is but they don't have any real brand equity just some reviews, and a nice story about china/founders - might have been smart to maybe think about a mid-premium strategy to gain some volume in sales as they build brand equity, $399/$799 - sell a few hundred/thousand demonstrate a bit of longevity and real passion for delivering, create some advocates on the boards, etc...then come out with a real premium product that can compete with the big boys at $1500...
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The first Hanas were priced at $450 and $750 and took the market by storm. Then they introduced more premium carts to woo the higher end crowd. Reminded me of Honda and Toyota auto sales in the US 50 years ago.
 
bornard said:
does for me - at $400 I may have pulled the trigger to try - given the higher end specs, and at $900 hard pass, way too much competition - made in china (even if that's a good thing) and considering they are lowering price on their top model to that level - obvs not sure what their cost basis is but they don't have any real brand equity just some reviews, and a nice story about china/founders - might have been smart to maybe think about a mid-premium strategy to gain some volume in sales as they build brand equity, $399/$799 - sell a few hundred/thousand demonstrate a bit of longevity and real passion for delivering, create some advocates on the boards, etc...then come out with a real premium product that can compete with the big boys at $1500...
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I’m not sure where the $900 figure is coming from.

I can say after months of living with the LS-10 MkII, it’s the best cartridge I’ve ever owned and likely the best I’ve ever heard. To me, it truly has no faults whatsoever. It easily bests the two other $1k cartridges I have here. Their goal was to have a model competitive with $3k models for far less.

Yes it’s built in China. A/T builds cartridges there too. China can make great things- PrimaLuna comes to mind. Volvo makes cars there. The phone I’m using to type this message- also China. China is now where Japan was in the late 1960s- no one wanted Japanese products. Now the are desired.

Not everyone can afford a $1200 cartridge, no matter how good it may be. Hence the $499 SL-1 MkII. To quote Le Son- “it’s similar to the LS-10 MkII without the expensive optimizations.” Similar to the way Alfa Romeo builds cars- the build the most powerful model first, then remove features for the more reasonably priced models without removing what makes an Alfa an Alfa.

I’ve set up the SL1 Mk II this morning and am giving it a spin now. 30 hours to go until broken in. Way too early for a definitive opinion, but this is going to be fun.

IMG_3159.jpeg
 
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