Le Son LS-10 Mk II Moving Coil Cartridge Review

Portland Sheriff said:
Yes. And good question. But I have no reply yet for two reasons.

1. I sent the Le Son for analysis by WAM Engineering (WallyTools). I nerded out on their videos, which are really, really interesting and enlightening (to me), especially the lengthy video(s) about the 7 facets of cart design/alignment. And I thought it’d be a good investment for me in the long term given cost of cart and Masterdeck, even discounted. Should have results next week. Gregory at Le Son knows it’s being looked at and was also very interested to learn about WM/WallyTools.

2. It’s been a bit of a saga with MD and Mofi on the scratch dent. The only issue was supposed to be a scratch. And the scratch is close to invisible. At my specific request, MD said they confirmed all else worked correctly before shipping. That either didn’t happen or the person who did it is completely incompetent. But then the tonearm was missing a piece. It is impossible for the tonearm to move correctly without this piece. They sent a replacement tonearm, but it took a couple weeks bc they had to find replacement tonearm from the same manufacturing run (what they told me). Then, after installing the replacement, I learned the lifter has an issue (doesn’t drop without fiddling, and then not consistently with consistent VTF with my SAE cart). A new lifter arrived today (only took 3 days!).

I’m hoping that’s it bc the table itself is an absolute beast. Spins beautifully and I love that it has internal speed calibration that checks out perfectly if calibration is accurate.

MD/Mofi have not been bad with this, but they definitely have not been good with this. The idea that I’m replacing parts — regardless of scratch and dent bc I was told it’s a first run unit otherwise— as opposed to them taking it back and repairing themselves or just exchanging for a new one is A FUCKING JOKE for just about any product, but especially so for their brand new, top of the line turntable. I’ve made it clear to them (more politely than how expressed above) that that’s my opinion of this situation, and if it’s not resolved with the new lifter, it will get a lot less polite stat.

They’ve been nice and responsive enough, but it’s ridiculous that I’m even having to say that.
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Now I’m really interested to see what WAM thinks and how it measures.
 
Portland Sheriff said:
Will share it here for sure.

I have the retipped SAE 1000LT installed very meticulously, and it sounds incredible even not broken in.

However, I struggled w consistent VTF readings, and I think I have identified the reason. SAE weighs 4.8 grams. Masterdeck cart weight range starts at 5g (5-14g range). I had a feeling that was the issue. Too light or not enough mass or both for the scale to read well. The scale is the same one I’ve used very well w SAE and Ultradeck (Riverstone) and calibrates at 5.0003g with a 5g calibration weight, so seems in good shape. Regardless, it’s in the same shape it’s always been, and that’s never been an issue.

So all that is based on about 15 minutes of run time on the SAE, and I’m going to stop bc I’m concerned about harming the cart or records due to the weight issue. How concerned should I be? It really sounds amazing.
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I would not be at all concerned by a 0.2g delta as long as you can hit the necessary VTF.

edit: I ran my UltraDeck (posted cartridge weight range 5-10g) with the SAE (4.8g) and a SoundSmith Zephyr MIMC Star (12g) for years with absolutely zero issues.
 
Portland Sheriff said:
Unfortunately, initial report from WAM is that the stylus wasn’t fully cut on one side so it’d function more like a conical in one groove. He said that also means he can’t fully analyze zenith error, but that he thinks it’d be approx 5 degrees off center if it had been cut through in the way he thinks it would have been.

I’m going to get photos and other info overnight, and he is charging me only for a partial analysis bc I told him I’m sending it back bc of the primary problem — the incorrect cut.

I’m going to pass this info onto Jeffrey when I arrange the return. I’d have to have 100% reassurance from Le Son on any replacement. Like, they did their own analysis and qc review before shipping.

This upgrade has been a frustrating process!

FWIW, WAM finds errors with azimuth, zenith, rake angle all the time - across price ranges, even up to $20k. The shibata cut problem is another matter.
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Wow - that’s an error you’d likely not see unless you were an expert on styli shapes. QC definitely in question.
 
Portland Sheriff said:
I’m interested to see what Le Son thinks of the photos and any other info JR @ WAM sends. I’ve spent enough time watching JR’s vids, reading his blogs, and corresponding with him to trust him implicitly as a global expert in construction/physics/electronics/etc of cartridges, but maybe there’s some other way to view the situation? Or he’s wrong?

I wouldn’t know one way or another bc, as you suggest, it’s well above my abilities and knowledge.
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I'm not going to do it, currently... but just out of curiosity what do they charge to test out carts?
 
Portland Sheriff said:
I’m interested to see what Le Son thinks of the photos and any other info JR @ WAM sends. I’ve spent enough time watching JR’s vids, reading his blogs, and corresponding with him to trust him implicitly as a global expert in construction/physics/electronics/etc of cartridges, but maybe there’s some other way to view the situation? Or he’s wrong?

I wouldn’t know one way or another bc, as you suggest, it’s well above my abilities and knowledge.
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I don’t think he would be wrong about this; he has studied styli shapes and wear patterns extensively. If it’s not cut right, he’d know better than a gemologist.
 
kvetcha said:
that 'currently' is doing some heavy lifting. I can see the knees wobbling.
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Sometimes you can find out more than you really want to know with the WallyTools guys; they are very precise and very thorough. That level of analysis can drive one into obsession versus enjoyment. But regarding the Le Son, the inspection was an excellent call given the newness of the brand; some things have already been learned.
 
Portland Sheriff said:
$500, but the value proposition isn't just in the analysis/information. For me, the primary value is the corrective shim. I know that's a lot of dough, but I had other motivations mentioned in a different reply I just posted.

Also, while I know I don't need to defend my spending habits, I don't throw money around on many things other than audio and motorcycle gear/accessories. I spend almost nothing on clothes, hardly drink alcohol, don't buy coffee out of the house more than a few times a month, spend very little on gas for cars, etc.
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Oh trust me, I'm only asking because I looked online and couldn't find an answer. I couldn't care less what people do with their money as long as it isn't hurting others. I think it's a cool thing to try out, so I was curious.
 
Mather said:
Oh trust me, I'm only asking because I looked online and couldn't find an answer. I couldn't care less what people do with their money as long as it isn't hurting others. I think it's a cool thing to try out, so I was curious.
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No worries. I wasn’t feeling judged at all. Indeed, I could have done all of this without saying a word here. I’m comfortable with people knowing about it.
 
Update: Mofi is replacing my Masterdeck with a new unit. The VTF variance could not work for me regardless of the spec of the cartridge. I put a strip of blue tac on top of the headshell w/ the SAE yesterday to add weight so that it was in spec for the Masterdeck, and I had more consistency on the gauge but still variation sufficient to in/out of spec depending on how the tonearm was lowered.
 
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Portland Sheriff said:
Update: Mofi is replacing my Masterdeck with a new unit. The VTF variance could not work for me regardless of the spec of the cartridge. I put a strip of blue tac on top of the headshell w/ the SAE yesterday to add weight so that it was in spec for the Masterdeck, and I had more consistency on the gauge but still variation sufficient to in/out of spec depending on how the tonearm was lowered.

There was more to the story than I wrote here (more issues that I was having to diagnose and tinker with/repair, not-good communication from them that complicated my work, and a replacement part that did not match the original, which led to additional problems).

Last night, I wrote Mofi a very lengthy but detailed and well reasoned screed going through everything that had happened, with me (the customer) bearing all of the burden of their defective product and not-good service and follow through on the issues and noting that the easiest and correct solution from the beginning (when the problems started, now weeks ago) was to ask me to return my unit for repair by Mofi or simply replace it.

They claim they will double check functionality of the new unit before shipping. I'm hopeful bc, as noted above, it's an absolute beast of a turntable and, also as noted, it sounded phenomenal for the 10-15 minutes I listened to it.

The Le Son is going back. Not sure what's going to happen on that front.

Baby steps and breathing.
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I feel your pain. My Degritter MKII is heading back to Estonia soon so maybe they can keep each other company on the flight...
 
Mather said:
Oh trust me, I'm only asking because I looked online and couldn't find an answer. I couldn't care less what people do with their money as long as it isn't hurting others. I think it's a cool thing to try out, so I was curious.
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I think it's pretty rad and was curious about the price but you beat me to asking about it. If I was doing the same kinds of upgrades as @Portland Sheriff, I would have done the same thing. I think the peace of mind would be worth it for me.
 
As much as I love the science and engineering of Wally Tools, I can't go there. Ultimately, vinyl reproduction is imprecise. Despite the bottomless hole of possible expense, it will always be imprecise. Over time, I've become more comfortable with the inherent imprecision and decided that it matters less than if I still enjoy vinyl or not. I push against FOMO stealing my joy.
 
Portland Sheriff said:
Update: Mofi is replacing my Masterdeck with a new unit. The VTF variance could not work for me regardless of the spec of the cartridge. I put a strip of blue tac on top of the headshell w/ the SAE yesterday to add weight so that it was in spec for the Masterdeck, and I had more consistency on the gauge but still variation sufficient to in/out of spec depending on how the tonearm was lowered.

There was more to the story than I wrote here (more issues that I was having to diagnose and tinker with/repair, not-good communication from them that complicated my work, and a replacement part that did not match the original, which led to additional problems).

Last night, I wrote Mofi a very lengthy but detailed and well reasoned screed going through everything that had happened, with me (the customer) bearing all of the burden of their defective product and not-good service and follow through on the issues and noting that the easiest and correct solution from the beginning (when the problems started, now weeks ago) was to ask me to return my unit for repair by Mofi or simply replace it.

They claim they will double check functionality of the new unit before shipping. I'm hopeful bc, as noted above, it's an absolute beast of a turntable and, also as noted, it sounded phenomenal for the 10-15 minutes I listened to it.

The Le Son is going back. Not sure what's going to happen on that front.

Baby steps and breathing.
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If you like the SAE, I’d run that. You can put a spacer/shim between the cartridge and the headshell for a bit of added weight.

I’ve been rotating between the LeSon SL-10, the LS-1 and my hotrodded Grado Gold3. I still prefer SL-10 to the others, but the Grado really is good.
 
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