MoFi UltraDeck / StudioDeck Owners and those interested

AnthonyI said:
You know, when the MoFi decks came out this compliance thing made people heads explode for some reason. All I kept hearing was "It can't work due to compliance" "There's no way the tone arm mass is 25g", and on and on and on.

Here's the thing, if your not going crazy exotic on your cart selection, these decks handle them quite well.
Point of reference, I've run the following on my UD without issue:
Audio Techinca VM95ML
Denon DL-103R
Goldring E3
Goldring G1042
Grado Black
Grado Gold
Grado Opus3
Hana SL
MoFi Mastertracker
MoFi UltraTracker
Ortofon 2M Blue
Ortofon Quintet Blue
Ortofon Quintet Bronze
Click to expand...

Wow. My Cart of choice is the LVB, but only because I "think" it will be far better than the Master Tracker and only a few hundred more in price. Its compliance is 22. That Ortfon blue is 20, so similar?

Here's a quote from another forum from someone commenting on me wanting to use the LVB on the UD.

"You are looking at 5.99 Hz for a system resonance with the MoFi tonearm which is 1Hz below Ortofon's recommended 7Hz minimum. The 7Hz recommendation was recently updated by Ortofon, previously they recommended 10Hz ideal.
The issue will not be setup, but coloration of the sound by too low of a resonant frequency as Ortofon states in their guidelines."
 
Zafu said:
Wow. My Cart of choice is the LVB, but only because I "think" it will be far better than the Master Tracker and only a few hundred more in price. Its compliance is 22. That Ortfon blue is 20, so similar?

Here's a quote from another forum from someone commenting on me wanting to use the LVB on the UD.

"You are looking at 5.99 Hz for a system resonance with the MoFi tonearm which is 1Hz below Ortofon's recommended 7Hz minimum. The 7Hz recommendation was recently updated by Ortofon, previously they recommended 10Hz ideal.
The issue will not be setup, but coloration of the sound by too low of a resonant frequency as Ortofon states in their guidelines."
Click to expand...
From an outside source:

"But what does an out-of-interval measurement actually mean in terms of your turntable performance?

Whatever the resonance frequency is, it would mean your system is susceptible to resonate if exposed to those frequencies. For high resonance combinations this could happen by the music you play, ie. bass-notes in the recording could be affected and it could even make your cartridge skip. However for low resonance frequencies, the system is susceptible to footsteps or rumble or vibrations in your record player."

If your table is well-isolated I would really not worry about it. High-frequency system resonance is a bigger concern.
 
AnthonyI said:
The best cart I ever ran on my UD was the Hana SL by far.
Click to expand...

That's the Cart my tech suggested to me in the first place. I've decided to just send the Ortofon Black LVB back. I'm using the few hundred savings towards a mint/new Trichord Dino MK3 Phone Stage with separate power supply, so I can use the Hana SL and go to line in on my McIntosh C-42 that only takes MM so was previously limited.

I had a hard time believing the Trichord Dino MK3 Phone Stage would be superior to what's built-in to my McIntosh, lack of MC aside, but my tech guarantees me it absolutely is.

I'll circle back once done; probably in a week. He has to order the Cart.

Cheers
 
AnthonyI said:
You know, when the MoFi decks came out this compliance thing made people heads explode for some reason. All I kept hearing was "It can't work due to compliance" "There's no way the tone arm mass is 25g", and on and on and on.

Here's the thing, if your not going crazy exotic on your cart selection, these decks handle them quite well.
Point of reference, I've run the following on my UD without issue:
Audio Techinca VM95ML
Denon DL-103R
Goldring E3
Goldring G1042
Grado Black
Grado Gold
Grado Opus3
Hana SL
MoFi Mastertracker
MoFi UltraTracker
Ortofon 2M Blue
Ortofon Quintet Blue
Ortofon Quintet Bronze
Click to expand...
caddyshack-double-take.gif
 
romany said:
Hello. I'm curious if anyone had tried Nagaoka MP-200 (or MP-300) with the Ultradeck? Especially curious if you also run Ultratracker cart previously (which is what I'm using now) and could compare the sound of the two carts?
Click to expand...

This is a follow up to my own inquiry a month ago, a quick review of Nagaoka MP-200 being compared to the UltraTracker (bear in mind, with considerable mileage after 1.5 years of regular use). I posted my initial review a few weeks ago but quickly deleted it once I realized that the cart was much too rough out of the box without break in. So below is the second attempt.

Set up
After mounting the MP-200 using Tracking Wizard UltraDeck print out protractor, I set the tracking force was to 1.9g. The anti-skate was tested on a blank LP, and set to the lightest setting (by comparison, UltraTracker demanded anti-skate to be set to the heaviest setting.) Once I started listening, I also thought the sound balance seemed quite bright and tried lowering VTA only to realize later that the right channel speaker wire was crossed. Once reverse polarity was fixed, I'm happy to report that there are heaps of bottom end on offer with the Nag (and if switching from the UltraTracker, the VTA can be left alone).

Breaking in
This cart needs considerable break-in period. Out of the box, the sound was etched and harsh, mostly around mid-range. To make it “listenable” I initially switched from Graham Slee Accession MM preamp to my older and less revealing MoFi UltraPhono, and after a couple of weeks I switched back to Slee. At this point the sound was still a little rough, but much improved. Nagaoka recommends 30 hours break-in and that sounds quite accurate.

Listening
Compared to UltraTracker, this cart has got a noticeably better drive and timbre; overall it is more “musical” where UltraTracker always sounded a bit too linear and plain. Its presentation is more detailed and the instruments sound (subjectively) more accurate and natural. There were quite a few instances where I heard subtle details unheard previously with the UltraTracker (though it was old and must have sounded a bit rolled-off in the end). The sound stage is expansive and noticeably more detailed than with the UltraTracker. And being a low compliance cart I thought the Nag should match the heavy UltraDeck arm well and it was so: I didn’t notice resonance of any kind. Finally, the cart tracks really well though in places I did notice very minor groove noise I haven't heard with the UltraTracker (MoFi always claimed their needles are cut to be particularly quiet, matching the lacquer cutting stylus and all that… perhaps that's true).

Hope this review helps others in the community interested in this cart. I have never tried the MasterTracker but would say MP-200 is most certainly on the UltraTracker level and many would likely prefer its "musicality" and the improved soundstage to the MoFi cart. To my ears it performed better than Audio-Technica VM750SH and Hana EH I had tried on the same table before. Just make sure to let it break in, tinker with the setup until you’re satisfied, and enjoy!

--A month later update--
An awesome cart... I like it much more than MoFi UltraTracker. As long as the stylus lasts a year, I see no reason to use anything else.


20220818_171057.jpg
--
 
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romany said:
This is a follow up to my own inquiry a month ago, a quick review of Nagaoka MP-200 being compared to the UltraTracker (bear in mind, with considerable mileage after 1.5 years of regular use). I posted my initial review a few weeks ago but quickly deleted it once I realized that the cart was much too rough out of the box without break in. So below is the second attempt.

Set up
After mounting the MP-200 using Tracking Wizard UltraDeck print out protractor, I set the tracking force was to 1.9g. The anti-skate was tested on a blank LP, and set to the lightest setting (by comparison, UltraTracker demanded anti-skate to be set to the heaviest setting.) Once I started listening, I also thought the sound balance seemed a bit bright and reduced VTA just a little (more about that below).

Breaking in
This cart needs breaking in and lots of it. Out of the box, the sound was etched and harsh, mostly around mid-range. To make it “listenable” I initially switched from Graham Slee Accession MM preamp to my older and less revealing MoFi UltraPhono, and after a couple of weeks I switched back to Slee. At this point the sound was still a little rough, but much improved. Nagaoka recommends 30 hours break-in and that sounds quite accurate.

Listening
Compared to UltraTracker, this cart has got a noticeably better drive and timbre; overall it is more “musical” where UltraTracker always sounded a bit too linear and plain. Its presentation is more detailed and the instruments sound (subjectively) more accurate and natural. There were quite a few instances where I heard subtle details unheard previously with the UltraTracker (though it was old and must have sounded a bit rolled-off in the end). On the other hand, compared to UltraTracker Nagaoka is also quite lean. Which was a surprise - I’ve read reviews stating that this cart is warmer than most, no idea what folks were comparing it to. So if you want to feel some some bass drum punch, I think you might be underwhelmed initially. I mitigated this somewhat by lowering the capacitance on the Slee to 50pf instead of Nagaoka’s specified 100pf and that did make the sound slightly warmer but not by that much. Further lowering VTA beyond parallel brought additional bass to the point where I was somewhat satisfied. Back to positives: the sound stage is expansive and noticeably more detailed than with the UltraTracker. And being a low compliance cart I thought the Nag should match the heavy UltraDeck arm well and it was so: I didn’t notice resonance of any kind. Finally, the cart tracks really well though in places I did notice very minor groove noise I haven't heard with the UltraTracker (MoFi always claimed their needles are cut to be particularly quiet, matching the lacquer cutting stylus and all that… perhaps that's true).

Hope this review helps others in the community interested in this cart. I have never tried the MasterTracker but would say MP-200 is most certainly on the UltraTracker level and many would likely prefer its "musicality" and the improved soundstage to the MoFi cart. It is a little lean but to my ears it still performed better than Audio-Technica VM750SH and Hana EH I had tried on the same table before. Just make sure to let it break in, tinker with the setup until you’re satisfied, and enjoy!

View attachment 150071
Click to expand...
I was interested in your experience with the anti-skate settings on your UltraTracker . I have a MasterTracker with about 6 months usage . It came set at the 3rd notch as per instructions . I tried my anti-skate on the 2nd notch but did not really hear any difference in sound or tracking ability . According to the manual the UltraTracker should also be set at the 3rd notch . You mention that you had set your UltraTracker at the heaviest setting which would be the 4th notch . I wonder if this was the setting you used and did you experiment with setting the anti-skate on other notches and the results .

When I first got the TT I contacted MoFi re the notches as I had counted 5 notches not the 4 that they indicated . They responded back that the first notch should not be counted and the connection should be with the black rubber ring and not the loop on the thread . I have pasted there comments below as I know this issue has been raised a number of times .

The anti-skate question is one I have seen before. The anti-skate notches are counted from the pivot post outward. There are five (5) notches. The notch at the pivot post does not play a part in this. So, the 1st useful notch is actually the 2nd notch from the pivot post. The small black donut should be within the large thread loop. This donut is attached to the anti-skate post.
Click to expand...
 
Static Shock said:
I was interested in your experience with the anti-skate settings on your UltraTracker . I have a MasterTracker with about 6 months usage . It came set at the 3rd notch as per instructions . I tried my anti-skate on the 2nd notch but did not really hear any difference in sound or tracking ability . According to the manual the UltraTracker should also be set at the 3rd notch . You mention that you had set your UltraTracker at the heaviest setting which would be the 4th notch . I wonder if this was the setting you used and did you experiment with setting the anti-skate on other notches and the results .

When I first got the TT I contacted MoFi re the notches as I had counted 5 notches not the 4 that they indicated . They responded back that the first notch should not be counted and the connection should be with the black rubber ring and not the loop on the thread . I have pasted there comments below as I know this issue has been raised a number of times .
Click to expand...
I always wondered about that fifth notch. Good to know.
 
Static Shock said:
I was interested in your experience with the anti-skate settings on your UltraTracker . I have a MasterTracker with about 6 months usage . It came set at the 3rd notch as per instructions . I tried my anti-skate on the 2nd notch but did not really hear any difference in sound or tracking ability . According to the manual the UltraTracker should also be set at the 3rd notch . You mention that you had set your UltraTracker at the heaviest setting which would be the 4th notch . I wonder if this was the setting you used and did you experiment with setting the anti-skate on other notches and the results .
Click to expand...
I didn't realize Ultradeck even had a manual ;)
I responded to your older post with the blank LP method which landed me on the second notch (from the base) with the Nagaoka and the fourth notch with the Ultratracker. I imagine these could be related to the cart weight, since Nagaoka is three grams lighter. Also MoFi recommending the third notch for UltraTracker kinda checks out with my blank LP test - which is only a notch apart.
 
romany said:
I didn't realize Ultradeck even had a manual ;)
I responded to your older post with the blank LP method which landed me on the second notch (from the base) with the Nagaoka and the fourth notch with the Ultratracker. I imagine these could be related to the cart weight, since Nagaoka is three grams lighter. Also MoFi recommending the third notch for UltraTracker kinda checks out with my blank LP test - which is only a notch apart.
Click to expand...
Thanks , I understood from your previous response that you used the blank LP method to test , since I have no blank LP I was just interested in what notch or notches you tested . Since the first notch is not used or counted for anti-skate purposes according to MoFi then it appears that you used the third notch ie the second one from the end which strictly counting is the 4th notch . So it looks like you ended up on the recommended notch for the UltraTracker . MoFi like to make things difficult through the lack of adequate instructions .
 
Static Shock said:
it appears that you used the third notch ie the second one from the end which strictly counting is the 4th notch . So it looks like you ended up on the recommended notch for the UltraTracker
Click to expand...
I used the last notch on anti-skate post for the UltraTracker. Hence I was "a notch apart" with what MoFi is recommending...
 
romany said:
I used the last notch on anti-skate post for the UltraTracker. Hence I was "a notch apart" with what MoFi is recommending...
Click to expand...
Thanks for clarifying the notch you used as it can be confusing given how MoFi numbers them . Both TT and Cartridge manuals are on line . Notch 4 is for 10 to 12 g cartridges and notch 3 is for 8 to 10 g cartridges .Since both UltraTracker and MasterTracker cartridges weight is listed as 9.7 , means its close to the top end of notch 3 and the bottom end of notch 4 . I am going to move my anti-skate up a notch and see how it sounds .

I find with there notch numbering system its easier to start counting from the far end ie notch 4 as there is less room for confusion.
 
Has anyone used an Anti Static Brush like this one on their UltraDeck? I'm just wondering where I would place it since the belt drive is located where I would normally think to. Thank you.

06a93bf0-f9cf-49f4-92b2-8aab71bae5f1.__CR0,0,970,300_PT0_SX970_V1___.jpg
 
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