Neverending Covid-19 Coronavirus

ranbalam said:
A coworker that I work with (closely on some days) tested positive for Covid today. I haven't been around him since last Thursday, which is the day I left early to get my second shot, but he was in the building on Monday. He's an anti-mask anti-vax guy, so I'm not surprised, but I'll try to save my commentary on that until I know he's ok.
I'd like to think I'm ok based on having both shots, even though I know it takes two weeks past the second one to get me to the 90% protected.
My company isn't closing, they feel the people with at least one shot are ok to come in to work. I really don't know what to do though, this is my first exposure....even though I can't say exactly how exposed I was.

Sorry if that's a bit rambly, I'm barely thinking as I'm typing...
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So the anti-vaxxers get time off? Forced? Unpaid?
 
ranbalam said:
A coworker that I work with (closely on some days) tested positive for Covid today. I haven't been around him since last Thursday, which is the day I left early to get my second shot, but he was in the building on Monday. He's an anti-mask anti-vax guy, so I'm not surprised, but I'll try to save my commentary on that until I know he's ok.
I'd like to think I'm ok based on having both shots, even though I know it takes two weeks past the second one to get me to the 90% protected.
My company isn't closing, they feel the people with at least one shot are ok to come in to work. I really don't know what to do though, this is my first exposure....even though I can't say exactly how exposed I was.

Sorry if that's a bit rambly, I'm barely thinking as I'm typing...
Click to expand...
Well, since you are more than 2 weeks out from your first shot, you shouldn't have to do much. Just stay away from people until you can get your test, but definitely get tested. You should be above 80% protected from the first shot, but you can't really be overly cautious with this fucker.

I just spoke to an old co-worker on the phone and found out he has it. He was one of the first people I talked to who said he doesn't trust the vaccine and won't be taking it. Now, his family went to vacation in South Carolina and he got sick down there. Ended up getting tested while down there and coming up positive, which meant his whole family had to quarantine in their room for the remainder of the vacation. I just don't understand it. It is your right to not put anything in your body that you do not want, but you also don't have the right to risk other people and should have to remain in stay-at-home mode until the entire pandemic is cleared, if you choose to go the No Vax route.
 
debianlinux said:
I mean if everyone worke masks and stayed home and gave a shit about more than their own inconvenience when we all locked down we likely could have avoided this altogether. Now we pay, and pay, and pay.
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That sort of thinking is firmly in fantasyland. There was never going to be any sort of stopping it through social action. Once this got into the wild, it was always going to be with us forever.
 
Chucktshoes said:
That sort of thinking is firmly in fantasyland. There was never going to be any sort of stopping it through social action. Once this got into the wild, it was always going to be with us forever.
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Are you disagreeing on the principle that no, people just can't? Cause I'll agree that is fantasy. Or are you saying we were fucked no matter what fantastical behaviors people may have exhibited? I would argue that point.
 
debianlinux said:
Are you disagreeing on the principle that no, people just can't? Cause I'll agree that is fantasy. Or are you saying we were fucked no matter what fantastical behaviors people may have exhibited? I would argue that point.
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This virus was always going to be with us forever once it became a thing in the human population. Just like the cold, flu, or any other illness spread through casual social contact that is prone to mutation. Believing anything else is simply trying to place blame on others to put a balm on your own helplessness.

I used to say that the only way out is through, but that wasn’t quite accurate. There’s no way out. There never was, never will be.
 
So, Rational Fatalism is pretty interesting to me. I subscribed to it for a large portion of my younger life without knowing what it was. I thought to myself "both heart disease and cancer run in my family and have taken out all of my grandparents, so it doesn't really matter what I do it will end the same for me". I ate terrible foods and I drank to excess and did all sorts of other self-destructive things because of that fatalistic attitude. I started turning that around when I was in my 30's and realized that just because the probability of something is high, I do not have to help it along. It's the old self-fulfilling prophecy phenomenon.

If I say "I work around asbestos so much that I am going to get asbestosis when I am older, so I might as well not inconvenience myself by wearing a mask and Tyvek suit, now", then I am contributing to the risky behavior that causes the bad outcome. Even though I've rationalized it and prevention seems useless, I am still an integral part of the problem behaviour and am selfishly making sure that what I believe comes to fruition.

The interesting part to me is what is the intention of it? I attribute my own fatalism to ignorance and selfishness. I wanted to rationalize my bad bahaviour, so much so that I almost felt good about continuing it. So, the intention of mine was making me feel good about self-destructive behaviour. There is also a little bit of truth to rational fatalism and it can be very freeing. It can be euphoric in a way to say, "I know all things end, so what I do now only changes the speed that it happens". The whole 'is it better to burn out or fade away' argument. I think that can be really helpful in certain situations for certain people. For instance this quote from a buddhist teacher that has always stuck with me:

“You see this goblet?” asks Achaan Chaa, the Thai meditation master. “For me this glass is already broken. I enjoy it; I drink out of it. It holds my water admirably, sometimes even reflecting the sun in beautiful patterns. If I should tap it, it has a lovely ring to it. But when I put this glass on the shelf and the wind knocks it over or my elbow brushes it off the table and it falls to the ground and shatters, I say, ‘Of course.’ When I understand that the glass is already broken, every moment with it is precious.”

So, with that mindset you can see the impermanence in things as beautiful. It comes from the same type of rational fatalism as encouraging bad behaviour, yet it adds so much good to the way I think about the world. The intention of the fatalism there is to be at peace with the things we can't control and accepting them.

The really funny part of the whole thing to me is that both sides actually seem to spring from the hopelessness or helplessness that the final result cannot be changed.
 
debianlinux said:
Are you disagreeing on the principle that no, people just can't? Cause I'll agree that is fantasy. Or are you saying we were fucked no matter what fantastical behaviors people may have exhibited? I would argue that point.
Click to expand...

Chucktshoes said:
This virus was always going to be with us forever once it became a thing in the human population. Just like the cold, flu, or any other illness spread through casual social contact that is prone to mutation. Believing anything else is simply trying to place blame on others to put a balm on your own helplessness.

I used to say that the only way out is through, but that wasn’t quite accurate. There’s no way out. There never was, never will be.
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There has been a huge debate on how long Covid will stick around in the virology world. The most optimistic timeline I've heard from an actual virologist or epidemiologist is 7 years. But most believe that it will be with us now forever. Here's a really good paper on how they think it will switch from pandemic to endemic.

One year after its emergence, severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) has become so widespread that there is little hope of elimination. There are, however, several other human coronaviruses that are endemic and cause multiple reinfections that engender sufficient immunity to protect against severe adult disease. By making assumptions about acquired immunity from its already endemic relatives, Lavine et al. developed a model with which to analyze the trajectory of SARS-CoV-2 into endemicity. The model accounts for SARS-CoV-2's age-structured disease profile and assesses the impact of vaccination. The transition from epidemic to endemic dynamics is associated with a shift in the age distribution of primary infections to younger age groups, which in turn depends on how fast the virus spreads. Longer-lasting sterilizing immunity will slow the transition to endemicity. Depending on the type of immune response it engenders, a vaccine could accelerate establishment of a state of mild disease endemicity.

AAAS

science.sciencemag.org science.sciencemag.org
 
Skeletonframes said:
So, Rational Fatalism is pretty interesting to me. I subscribed to it for a large portion of my younger life without knowing what it was. I thought to myself "both heart disease and cancer run in my family and have taken out all of my grandparents, so it doesn't really matter what I do it will end the same for me". I ate terrible foods and I drank to excess and did all sorts of other self-destructive things because of that fatalistic attitude. I started turning that around when I was in my 30's and realized that just because the probability of something is high, I do not have to help it along. It's the old self-fulfilling prophecy phenomenon.

If I say "I work around asbestos so much that I am going to get asbestosis when I am older, so I might as well not inconvenience myself by wearing a mask and Tyvek suit, now", then I am contributing to the risky behavior that causes the bad outcome. Even though I've rationalized it and prevention seems useless, I am still an integral part of the problem behaviour and am selfishly making sure that what I believe comes to fruition.

The interesting part to me is what is the intention of it? I attribute my own fatalism to ignorance and selfishness. I wanted to rationalize my bad bahaviour, so much so that I almost felt good about continuing it. So, the intention of mine was making me feel good about self-destructive behaviour. There is also a little bit of truth to rational fatalism and it can be very freeing. It can be euphoric in a way to say, "I know all things end, so what I do now only changes the speed that it happens". The whole 'is it better to burn out or fade away' argument. I think that can be really helpful in certain situations for certain people. For instance this quote from a buddhist teacher that has always stuck with me:

“You see this goblet?” asks Achaan Chaa, the Thai meditation master. “For me this glass is already broken. I enjoy it; I drink out of it. It holds my water admirably, sometimes even reflecting the sun in beautiful patterns. If I should tap it, it has a lovely ring to it. But when I put this glass on the shelf and the wind knocks it over or my elbow brushes it off the table and it falls to the ground and shatters, I say, ‘Of course.’ When I understand that the glass is already broken, every moment with it is precious.”

So, with that mindset you can see the impermanence in things as beautiful. It comes from the same type of rational fatalism as encouraging bad behaviour, yet it adds so much good to the way I think about the world. The intention of the fatalism there is to be at peace with the things we can't control and accepting them.

The really funny part of the whole thing to me is that both sides actually seem to spring from the hopelessness or helplessness that the final result cannot be changed.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure I've ever read anything more relatable than this post.
 
Just heard a report that we are 2 to 4 weeks depending on your state for when vaccine supply outstripes demand.

Once we hit this point, we have a long and hard road ahead to get vaccinations to the level needed for herd immunity. The people remaining to be vaccinated will be very difficult to convince to get vaccinated. For example, every Republican I know from my own family will absolutely not get the shot. There is no reasoning with them.
 
RenegadeMonster said:
Just heard a report that we are 2 to 4 weeks depending on your state for when vaccine supply outstripes demand.

Once we hit this point, we have a long and hard road ahead to get vaccinations to the level needed for herd immunity. The people remaining to be vaccinated will be very difficult to convince to get vaccinated. For example, every Republican I know from my own family will absolutely not get the shot. There is no reasoning with them.
Click to expand...
I've asked a few young people in my office who I thought would be smarter than this, but they are saying they don't want to be guinea pigs for a new vaccine.

I don't know if I can waste my time and energy trying to convince them.
 
+4 on days since Pfizer 2.0. No issues. Was a bit weak and achy on Sunday but we still went out to look at bluebonnets with the kids. I'm ready for my kids to eventually get the vaccine as Disneyland said out of staters like us can come in the future if we have been vaccinated. So maybe we'll just ditch the kids and do a parents trip. That's not weird is it?
 
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