Neverending Covid-19 Coronavirus

[LiamGallaghersBucketHat]

Actually, I was coming to post this. It's a pre-print paper, so it hasn't been peer reviewed yet, but they are talking about the lambda variant which is more transmissible than the delta variant and it looks like it's also more resistant to the vaccine. This is the variant that is ravaging South America right now--so....ya know.....not far from us (especially me in NOLA).

SARS-CoV-2 Lambda, a new variant of interest, is now spreading in some South American countries; however, its virological features and evolutionary trait remain unknown. Here we reveal that the spike protein of the Lambda variant is more infectious and it is attributed to the T76I and L452Q mutations. The RSYLTPGD246-253N mutation, a unique 7-amino-acid deletion mutation in the N-terminal domain of the Lambda spike protein, is responsible for evasion from neutralizing antibodies. Since the Lambda variant has dominantly spread according to the increasing frequency of the isolates harboring the RSYLTPGD246-253N mutation, our data suggest that the insertion of the RSYLTPGD246-253N mutation is closely associated with the massive infection spread of the Lambda variant in South America.

SARS-CoV-2 Lambda variant exhibits higher infectivity and immune resistance

SARS-CoV-2 Lambda, a new variant of interest, is now spreading in some South American countries; however, its virological features and evolutionary trait remain unknown. Here we reveal that the spike protein of the Lambda variant is more infectious and it is attributed to the T76I and L452Q...

www.biorxiv.org

So is this the Delta Plus or an entirely different mutation?

 

[Chucktshoes]

I keep trying to tell y’all, it’s never going away. Deal with it.

You can live your life in eternal fear, or accept that it is a fact of life, get vaccinated and move on with living your life.


In related news:

Great response to Deblasio’s bullshit.

 

[RenegadeMonster]

A teacher is suing an Arizona school district for implementing a mask mandate despite governor's ban | CNN

An Arizona judge will hear arguments Wednesday over whether a Phoenix school district can require people to wear masks in defiance of a state law banning mask mandates in schools.

www.cnn.com

Edit, not sure why it's just showing the URL and not the page title or info banner.

But this article is about how a teacher in Arizona is suing over a school district implementation a mask mandate, which is in defiance of the governors ban on any such mandates. The teacher is expected to win the lawsuit because the governor trumps local law.

 

[Joe Mac]

The GOP is now urging people to get vaccinated. But this push comes too little too late.

Why the change of heart by the GOP? Because the COVID / Delta surge is hitting Wall Street, thus impacting the riches bottom line.

But still, when asked if they would mandate a vaccine the answer is no. It goes against their parties principles. It's a matter of freedom and personal responsibility.

The late push for the vaccine also will hardly have any effect on Trump's base who largely objects getting the vaccine.

Mandating anything is a terrible idea. People have a right to be stupid we just need politicians to be responsible enough to advocate uptake for everyone regardless of beliefs.

 

[Max Sterling]

Budum 'tiss.

 

[Max Sterling]

Mandating anything is a terrible idea. People have a right to be stupid we just need politicians to be responsible enough to advocate uptake for everyone regardless of beliefs.

At what point does public health and safety supersede personal freedoms? Throughout life I've been required to get many vaccinations, for school and for US naturalization. I'm honestly a bit torn on this. I'm a big proponent of people making horrible decisions for themselves freely, but this specific decision affects more than just the individual. At what point is this freedom infringing on the safety and health of other people?

 

[BjorgenFjorgen]

Mandating anything is a terrible idea. People have a right to be stupid we just need politicians to be responsible enough to advocate uptake for everyone regardless of beliefs.

We mandate a ton of things. In Ontario you already need like ten vaccines to attend school. People also don't really have a right to be stupid when it endangers other people.

 

[Joe Mac]

At what point does public health and safety supersede personal freedoms? Throughout life I've been required to get many vaccinations, for school and for US naturalization. I'm honestly a bit torn on this. I'm a big proponent of people making horrible decisions for themselves freely, but this specific decision affects more than just the individual. At what point is this freedom infringing on the safety and health of other people?

We mandate a ton of things. In Ontario you already need like ten vaccines to attend school. People also don't really have a right to be stupid when it endangers other people.

Does mandating really increase uptake or does it just harden already hardened attitudes against the thing. When does saying “you must” actually become counter intuitive to the thing you’re putting forward.

Are there consequences? For sure. Does it mean that you might not be allowed to access things? Absolutely. Do we have a right to force someone to be injected with a substance against their will? I’m not sure I can condone that.

Forgive me but isn’t the aim also to get a critical mass not 100% because thats not realistically achievable. Once you get that let’s focus on the third world and prevent mass mutations across entire populations.

 

[Max Sterling]

Does mandating really increase uptake or does it just harden already hardened attitudes against the thing. When does saying “you must” actually become counter intuitive to the thing you’re putting forward.

Are the consequences? For sure. Does it mean that you might not be allowed to access things? Absolutely. Do we have a right to force someone to be injected with a substance against their will? I’m not sure I can condone that.

Forgive me but isn’t the aim also to get a critical mass not 100% because thats not realistically achievable. Once you get that let’s focus on the third world and prevent mass mutations across entire populations.

Many people can't/shouldn't because of medical reasons, like the drummer from Offspring for instance, his Doctor suggested he not get it because of an existing condition. Some other people claim the protected excuse of religion. So 100% is an impossibility. But aside from those exemptions, I HAD to get vaccines for school and residency in this country. How is this a different situation? I would argue this is much more important.

 

[Bull Shannon]

At what point does public health and safety supersede personal freedoms? Throughout life I've been required to get many vaccinations, for school and for US naturalization. I'm honestly a bit torn on this. I'm a big proponent of people making horrible decisions for themselves freely, but this specific decision affects more than just the individual. At what point is this freedom infringing on the safety and health of other people?

Putting my mind to it, there are so many ways we inconvenience ourselves and so many stipulations we submit ourselves to, partly for the sake of our safety and moreso for the safety of others. Seatbelts are a common example because you don't need one until you need one, but smoking restrictions/bans, littering/garbage/sanitation laws and standards, traffic laws and guidelines, fire code, security checks, car emissions standards, school-or-travel-mandated vaccinations, etc etc, those are all examples I can think of where it'd be easier to just not follow the rules or guidelines, but we do mainly because we're told to, as well as (and ultimately, even if we're only thinking of "not getting in trouble") for the sake of safety.

Now for the most part, all of those are things we were raised with and take at face value; I get that it's a completely different proposition to suddenly require an eight-point harness when operating a motor vehicle. But it boggles my mind that our daily lives are littered with mandates and stipulations we adhere to because of an overall understanding that we're all better off doing as such.

 

[Joe Mac]

Many people can't/shouldn't because of medical reasons, like the drummer from Offspring for instance, his Doctor suggested he not get it because of an existing condition. Some other people claim the protected excuse of religion. So 100% is an impossibility. But aside from those exemptions, I HAD to get vaccines for school and residency in this country. How is this a different situation? I would argue this is much more important.

Your parents chose to have the vaccines because they wanted you to go to state school and you chose to have the vaccine because you wanted residency. That’s an enormous difference to having to have it full stop.

Also when you’re dealing with people who are refusing it out of distrust of the current government and it’s advisors how is mandating it going to help?

We are also reaching a level of of mass vaccination where questions about the resumption of our civil liberties are going to need be started. This virus isn’t going away, full stop, once we reach the critical mass of vaccinations the conversation has to turn to third world aid and living with it.

 

[Joe Mac]

Putting my mind to it, there are so many ways we inconvenience ourselves and so many stipulations we submit ourselves to, partly for the sake of our safety and moreso for the safety of others. Seatbelts are a common example because you don't need one until you need one, but smoking restrictions/bans, littering/garbage/sanitation laws and standards, traffic laws and guidelines, fire code, security checks, car emissions standards, school-or-travel-mandated vaccinations, etc etc, those are all examples I can think of where it'd be easier to just not follow the rules or guidelines, but we do mainly because we're told to, as well as (and ultimately, even if we're only thinking of "not getting in trouble") for the sake of safety.

Now for the most part, all of those are things we were raised with and take at face value; I get that it's a completely different proposition to suddenly require an eight-point harness when operating a motor vehicle. But it boggles my mind that our daily lives are littered with mandates and stipulations we adhere to because of an overall understanding that we're all better off doing as such.

No one has a well founded constitutional right to not wear a seat belt, meanwhile bodily integrity is one of the biggest ones.

 

[Bull Shannon]

No one has a well founded constotutional right to not wear a seat belt, meanwhile bodily integrity is one of the biggest ones.

You're entirely right; most of what I describe has little to do with bodily integrity. I think mandating isn't the answer so much as either the government requiring proof of vaccination for things such as airline travel, or private businesses put their foot down and require proof of vaccination. To put it this way: in Portland public nudity is protected as a form of protest; you can go to the park naked. But you can't come into Plaid Pantry naked for some cold ones; they have a policy.

 

[gouis]

It's like everyone forgot we grew up with "no shirt, no shoes, no service" signs in every 7-11 in the country.

 

[BjorgenFjorgen]

Okay, don't mandate vaccines. But you can absolutely mandate that if people want to participate in public life and attend concerts, movie theatres, restaurants, etc., they have to be vaccinated. I'm sure it's similar elsewhere, but polling here has indicated that a large majority of people would be way more willing to patronize businesses if they knew that staff and other patrons were all vaccinated.

 

[BjorgenFjorgen]

You're entirely right; most of what I describe has little to do with bodily integrity. I think mandating isn't the answer so much as either the government requiring proof of vaccination for things such as airline travel, or private businesses put their foot down and require proof of vaccination. To put it this way: in Portland public nudity is protected as a form of protest; you can go to the park naked. But you can't come into Plaid Pantry naked for some cold ones; they have a policy.

This, although it's unfair and impossible to expect the individual businesses to really police it. Our provincial government is currently not planning for a vaccine passport of any kind, but there's no way small businesses can really enforce it without a provincial system in place.

 

[RenegadeMonster]

WHO is calling for a moratorium on booster shots. At least for a couple of months.

The issue is the developing world is way behind developed nations in vaccination rates. Mainly because the rich and greedy countries bought up all the vaccine supply. If they buy up all the supply again for booster shots the developing world would have the shots purchased out from under them again. And by that happening, giving COVID-19 more time to mutate and possibly beat the current vaccines.

 

[Joe Mac]

This, although it's unfair and impossible to expect the individual businesses to really police it. Our provincial government is currently not planning for a vaccine passport of any kind, but there's no way small businesses can really enforce it without a provincial system in place.

Weve gone the other way and for businesses where you stay for a period of time (pubs & restaurants I indoors/hotels/cinemas/events) you have to show proof of vaccination. I think with the EU wide covid travel passport we now all have a QR code on our phone (or to print off) to travel once we are vaccinated anyway. You produce that at the door. It probably is a strain on businesses but given it is getting that industry open again after so long they’re doing it. That said legally your employer (or even a prospective employer) has absolutely no legal right to even ask your vaccine status never mind enforce an employee mandate.

Also I suppose we are all in different countries with different situations. I think I read in the paper over the weekend that we have the second highest vaccine compliance rate in the world but also amongst the strictest, if not the strictest, of lockdown regimes still in place and a government audit has basically stated that the unelected pandemic advisory board has had almost Carte Blanche in forming policy and legislation over the last 8 months with little challenge or input from the actual elected government.

 

[nolalady]

So is this the Delta Plus or an entirely different mutation?

It's a different mutation.
I just found a paper that seems pretty decent at outlining delta, delta plus, and this new lambda mutation.

The Difference Between Delta, Delta Plus, and Lambda (and Why You Shouldn't Panic Yet)

It's still not clear if new variants Delta Plus or Lambda are any more dangerous than Delta.

lifehacker.com

Many people can't/shouldn't because of medical reasons, like the drummer from Offspring for instance, his Doctor suggested he not get it because of an existing condition. Some other people claim the protected excuse of religion. So 100% is an impossibility. But aside from those exemptions, I HAD to get vaccines for school and residency in this country. How is this a different situation? I would argue this is much more important.

Here's the problem with ALL of this. Right now, none of these vaccines are FDA approved yet. There is ABSOLUTELY no way that I think we should mandate a drug that has yet to go through all the safety and efficacy checks. We can debate all day whether or not there should be vaccine mandates, but in this instance, we are still talking about experimental drugs. They seem to be highly effective with low side effects, but it's yet to be determined whether the benefits outweigh the potential risk, because we have no idea if there is any long term risk with any of the vaccines, especially those based on completely new CAR-T technology.

 

[Max Sterling]

It's a different mutation.
I just found a paper that seems pretty decent at outlining delta, delta plus, and this new lambda mutation.

The Difference Between Delta, Delta Plus, and Lambda (and Why You Shouldn't Panic Yet)

It's still not clear if new variants Delta Plus or Lambda are any more dangerous than Delta.

lifehacker.com

Here's the problem with ALL of this. Right now, none of these vaccines are FDA approved yet. There is ABSOLUTELY no way that I think we should mandate a drug that has yet to go through all the safety and efficacy checks. We can debate all day whether or not there should be vaccine mandates, but in this instance, we are still talking about experimental drugs. They seem to be highly effective with low side effects, but it's yet to be determined whether the benefits outweigh the potential risk, because we have no idea if there is any long term risk with any of the vaccines, especially those based on completely new CAR-T technology.

That's an excellent point. As I said, I really am torn on this, but there's also a time element with this. It's a decision on whether or to let a virus mutate and grow more resistant, or to take the chance on a vaccine that doesn't yet have FDA approval. What's the bigger risk? I don't know the answer, I'm just thinking about this stuff out loud mostly.