Neverending Covid-19 Coronavirus

Joe Mac said:
Weve gone the other way and for businesses where you stay for a period of time (pubs & restaurants I indoors/hotels/cinemas/events) you have to show proof of vaccination. I think with the EU wide covid travel passport we now all have a QR code on our phone (or to print off) to travel once we are vaccinated anyway. You produce that at the door. It probably is a strain on businesses but given it is getting that industry open again after so long they’re doing it. That said legally your employer (or even a prospective employer) has absolutely no legal right to even ask your vaccine status never mind enforce an employee mandate.

Also I suppose we are all in different countries with different situations. I think I read in the paper over the weekend that we have the second highest vaccine compliance rate in the world but also amongst the strictest, if not the strictest, of lockdown regimes still in place and a government audit has basically stated that the unelected pandemic advisory board has had almost Carte Blanche in forming policy and legislation over the last 8 months with little challenge or input from the actual elected government.
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A universal (or near-universal) vaccine passport would be amazing. My new employer has asked us to volunteer our vax status, and even though I know I don't have to give it, I'm more than happy to. If as many people are vaccinated as they are estimating, I'll feel a lot more comfortable when I'm called back into the office.

In regard to an earlier question, though, yes, incentives and mandates (even if not actually forcing people to get vaccinated, only to participate in certain things) absolutely work.



I believe I saw a similar thing in France a few weeks ago when they announced restrictions for non-vax'd folk.
 
Max Sterling said:
That's an excellent point. As I said, I really am torn on this, but there's also a time element with this. It's a decision on whether or to let a virus mutate and grow more resistant, or to take the chance on a vaccine that doesn't yet have FDA approval. What's the bigger risk? I don't know the answer, I'm just thinking about this stuff out loud mostly.
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Viruses aren’t mutating in large western countries with high vaccine rates. They’re mutating in third world and emerging economy countries where there is much lower access to vaccinations and so the virus is able to spread and mutate at will. It’s then being transported to the west because we can’t just close the door because everyone is so reliant on global supply chains.

What we need, and have needed for almost half a year now, is to drop the patents on these vaccines, which have had huge public investment, and to get as many doses as possible manufactured and supplied to nations with widespread poverty.
 
Also I’d urge anyone with the means to participate in this UNICEF drive for everyone who has had a vaccine in a developed country to donate a vaccine.

www.unicef.ie

Get a Vaccine, Give a Vaccine | COVID-19 Appeal | UNICEF Ireland

UNICEF is delivering 3 billion COVID-19 vaccines to the most vulnerable families, health workers and high-risk people on our planet. Click to learn more.
www.unicef.ie

The link is to the Irish UNICEF site but I’m sure your local one will have something similar. Vaccinating the world, not just our countries, is how we get out of this.
 
And there's our mask mandate for the (beginning of at least) semester. 4th semester in a row marred by COVID. Honestly not sure why students are even coming back at this point. If I had the choice at all I would just take a pause and come back when things are at least somewhat normal. The increasing price-tag with the decreasing quality of the experience is just so grim.
 
Joe Mac said:
Viruses aren’t mutating in large western countries with high vaccine rates. They’re mutating in third world and emerging economy countries where there is much lower access to vaccinations and so the virus is able to spread and mutate at will. It’s then being transported to the west because we can’t just close the door because everyone is so reliant on global supply chains.

What we need, and have needed for almost half a year now, is to drop the patents on these vaccines, which have had huge public investment, and to get as many doses as possible manufactured and supplied to nations with widespread poverty.
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100,000% this. Our governments poured billions into the research to make these vaccines happen, that means they should be the ones to own them. I view pharma as essentially contracted workers here. Patent protection on these vaccines is an abuse of patent law.
 
Joe Mac said:
Weve gone the other way and for businesses where you stay for a period of time (pubs & restaurants I indoors/hotels/cinemas/events) you have to show proof of vaccination. I think with the EU wide covid travel passport we now all have a QR code on our phone (or to print off) to travel once we are vaccinated anyway. You produce that at the door. It probably is a strain on businesses but given it is getting that industry open again after so long they’re doing it. That said legally your employer (or even a prospective employer) has absolutely no legal right to even ask your vaccine status never mind enforce an employee mandate.

Also I suppose we are all in different countries with different situations. I think I read in the paper over the weekend that we have the second highest vaccine compliance rate in the world but also amongst the strictest, if not the strictest, of lockdown regimes still in place and a government audit has basically stated that the unelected pandemic advisory board has had almost Carte Blanche in forming policy and legislation over the last 8 months with little challenge or input from the actual elected government.
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I don't know if it's different in Ireland, but there is precedent in the UK, for refusing employment if not vaccinated. NHS trusts can refuse employment to Drs if they don't have Hepatitis B vaccination. It's based on public health grounds I believe. I very much doubt those sort of restrictions would be applied widely but can see it happening for certain roles that a Covid Vaccination becomes a requirement.
 
Andy said:
I don't know if it's different in Ireland, but there is precedent in the UK, for refusing employment if not vaccinated. NHS trusts can refuse employment to Drs if they don't have Hepatitis B vaccination. It's based on public health grounds I believe. I very much doubt those sort of restrictions would be applied widely but can see it happening for certain roles that a Covid Vaccination becomes a requirement.
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Whilst we are common law we also have a written constitution in the mix and the current legal opinion is that doing so would violate privacy rights. Your employer is not per se allowed access to your medical records without your consent which you’re not obliged to provide. It is largely theoretical though because we don’t really have a precedent of a pandemic so it would depend on how our judiciary would view the case in the current climate.
 
The whole thing about the vaccine not being FDA approved is BS though. It's gone through the clinical trials, no safety steps were skipped. It's only the bureaucracy that requires a certain time table for FDA approval as to why it's not approved yet. It's expected to be fully FDA approved as is in October.
 
RenegadeMonster said:
The whole thing about the vaccine not being FDA approved is BS though. It's gone through the clinical trials, no safety steps were skipped. It's only the bureaucracy that requires a certain time table for FDA approval as to why it's not approved yet. It's expected to be fully FDA approved as is in October.
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But it’s not BS. It is currently approved for use under an emergency authorization. Part of the trust factor that is imperative to getting folks to take it is that the processes cannot and must not be altered. If you alter the approval process or just rush through and rubber stamp the approval then you give credible grounds for those that are resisting it to stand on. That would be a blunder even greater than getting involved in a land war in Asia.

However long it takes for final approval is however long it takes and it has to take that long.
 
Chucktshoes said:
But it’s not BS. It is currently approved for use under an emergency authorization. Part of the trust factor that is imperative to getting folks to take it is that the processes cannot and must not be altered. If you alter the approval process or just rush through and rubber stamp the approval then you give credible grounds for those that are resisting it to stand on. That would be a blunder even greater than getting involved in a land war in Asia.

However long it takes for final approval is however long it takes and it has to take that long.
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Man you're suddenly putting a lot of trust in governmental guidance and processes.
 
gouis said:
Man you're suddenly putting a lot of trust in governmental guidance and processes.
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No, not especially.

There is a significant difference between having personal faith and trust in something and laying out why the parameters of that thing cannot be changed if you wish to convince others who do place a level of trust in that thing.

Personally, I think there’s a whole shit ton a fuckery involved with the FDA approval process as a general rule. That simply holds with my general distrust and dislike of pretty much everything government is involved in. Most people haven’t considered it enough and don’t have any firm thoughts on the matter and generally trust it. If you give them any reason not to trust the actions of the FDA, it undermines faith in the efficacy and safety of the vaccines which already have significant trust hurdles to overcome due to the heavy politicization of the whole pandemic.
 
DeSantis mocked Biden last night over things like wanting Kindergarteners to wear masks, proof of vaccine requirements for certain things and taking away freedom and replacing it with a biomedical security state. He ended his press conference with "I don't want to hear a blip about COVID from you".


 
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Joe Mac said:
What we need, and have needed for almost half a year now, is to drop the patents on these vaccines, which have had huge public investment, and to get as many doses as possible manufactured and supplied to nations with widespread poverty.
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Chucktshoes said:
100,000% this. Our governments poured billions into the research to make these vaccines happen, that means they should be the ones to own them. I view pharma as essentially contracted workers here. Patent protection on these vaccines is an abuse of patent law.
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YES YES YES

The hard part of this was developed by NIH researchers and researchers in universities using government grants. These vaccine makers just put the real science into a vaccine form. If you are not allowed to sue the vaccine maker for injuries (which you are not allowed to in the US), then there should be no one making a profit either. We're giving big pharma it's cake and it gets to eat it too.

On top of that, we have been so worried about the work of these big pharma plagiarizers and their rights as a company, for a patent that they had very little to do with innovation-wise, that we decided not to drop the patent. And instead allowed Covid to ravage poor countries, which gets us all the variants of concern.

RenegadeMonster said:
The whole thing about the vaccine not being FDA approved is BS though. It's gone through the clinical trials, no safety steps were skipped. It's only the bureaucracy that requires a certain time table for FDA approval as to why it's not approved yet. It's expected to be fully FDA approved as is in October.
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Actually, this has more to do with collecting data and continuing clinical trials for safety.

To begin the process for FDA approval, a company must submit what’s known as a Biologic License Application (BLA) that includes hundreds of pages of documentation, including preclinical and clinical data, manufacturing processes and facilities, safety reports and more. Since it takes so long to collect all of this data, some companies are allowed to ask for a “rolling review,” which means that they can hand portions of the application to the FDA as they are available. Both Pfizer and Moderna are using the rolling review program, which involves meeting frequently with FDA regulators to update them on new clinical trial data and manufacturing developments as they occur.

It takes the agency at least six months, if not longer, to review all the supporting documentation related to an application to reach a decision. As you might expect, clinical trial data is scrutinized, but the process involves more than just experts reading data. The FDA also inspects manufacturing facilities and meets many times with company executives. Despite the time and labor intensive process, some experts say the agency is moving too slowly.

www.forbes.com

Why Hasn’t The FDA Fully Approved Any Covid-19 Vaccines Yet?

It’s a long and arduous process that requires tons of data. Plus, the agency wants to rebuild trust after coming under attack during the Trump Administration.
www.forbes.com www.forbes.com

They do down play the safety part in the article, but I think this is where most of the hesitancy is coming from. People are scared to get this vaccine, and a large part of the hesitancy is due to this rushed process and the FDA making some other questionable calls on other drugs lately. In this article, it says the FDA is looking to rebuild public trust. It doesn't do that but rushing this process.

RenegadeMonster said:
Wasn't Lambda around last year, well before Delta? Is it a current concern or a past one?
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The WHO claims that the first instance of Lambda was in Dec 2020:
WHO label Pango
lineages		GISAID cladeNextstrain
clade 		Earliest documented
samples 		Date of designation
Eta B.1.525 G/484K.V3 21DMultiple countries,
Dec-2020 		17-Mar-2021
Iota B.1.526 GH/253G.V121F United States of America,
Nov-2020 		24-Mar-2021
Kappa B.1.617.1 G/452R.V3 21B India,
Oct-2020 		4-Apr-2021
LambdaC.37GR/452Q.V121GPeru, Dec-202014-Jun-2021

www.who.int

Tracking SARS-CoV-2 variants

All viruses, including SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes COVID-19, change over time. Most changes have little to no impact on the virus’ properties. However, some changes may affect the virus’s properties, such as how easily it spreads, the associated disease severity, or the performance of...
www.who.int www.who.int
 
ranbalam said:
Well, we have our first breakthrough case at work. A fully vaxxed 25 year old male has Covid. I didn't have contact with him recently, so that's good I guess...but this shit is scary.
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it is scary, but the idea of the vaccine is the reduce the severity of the illness on a breakthrough case so let's hope for his sake that the vaccine does what it is supposed to!
 
Tillman said:
it is scary, but the idea of the vaccine is the reduce the severity of the illness on a breakthrough case so let's hope for his sake that the vaccine does what it is supposed to!
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I work with a lot of anti-vaxxers, so sadly this is ammo for them.
I just talked to him, he said he feels like hell but not like, hospital bound or anything.
 
ranbalam said:
I work with a lot of anti-vaxxers, so sadly this is ammo for them.
I just talked to him, he said he feels like hell but not like, hospital bound or anything.
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I'm guessing someone said it, but I'm not sure who did, but the vaccine never promised protection from contracting the virus after receiving it. it did however promise to lessen severity.

but yes, all of the anti-vaxxers in my circle want to claim that this means the program is a complete failure, meanwhile evidence shows that those with the vaccine are much better off when it comes to the degree of illness and needing to be hospitalized.
 
The major Hospitals in Atlanta just mandated vaccines for all employees. I still think it's ridiculous that they have to.

One of my close friends has a Niece with Cystic Fibrosis and she just had to go back to school this week. She now has COVID. I'm very worried for her, she's too young for a vaccine so she's going to take the full brunt of it with her condition. I know statistically kids fair pretty well, but damn that has to be scary.
 
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