Political Discussion


Apparently we were real close to a probe on the Biden's actually happening.
I fully expect this to get revisited before November. DJT will stop at nothing to stay in office.
 
Easy provided that no assumption is made of what a Republican administration would have done in the same period or are you actively saying you'd have preferred that? I don't see (and I freely admit, I'm on the wrong side of the Atlantic for all the fine details) how there's a different outcome. More traditional Democratic candidates had got nowhere significant in '84 and '88 so why would they have suddenly triumphed in '92?

The field goal posts feel like they are moving. This started as a conversation over which president of my lifetime was least shitty (Obama) and then shifted to whether I would rather have somebody who offers 50% of what I want versus 100% (but gets nothing done). My answer is that depends on what's happening with that other 50%. And in my eyes, it was more like 10-90 with Bill considering how far reaching the negative impacts of his decisions were on various communities (see: the crime bill of 94 for another banger that has yet to be mentioned).

Like the fact that the big selling point for Dems seems to be-- "well, they only shove a stick up your pee-hole every other day (as opposed to every day)" is precisely why Democrats have, in many ways, lost my generation and why they keep losing elections. Sorry, but I'd prefer the guy who promises me ointment for my inflamed urethra but will probably get obstructed in his attempt to obtain it. Because at least I know he's gonna have the decency to let me keep my pants on.
 
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The field goal posts feel like they are moving. This started as a conversation over which president of my lifetime was least shitty (Obama) and then shifted to whether I would rather have somebody who offers 50% of what I want versus 100% (but gets nothing done). My answer is that depends on what's happening with that other 50%. And in my eyes it was more like 10-90 considering how far reaching the negative impacts of his decisions were on various communities (see: the crime bill of 94 for another banger that has yet to be mentioned).

Like the fact that the big selling point for Dems seems to be-- "well, they only shove a stick up your pee-hole every other day (as opposed to every day)" is precisely why Democrats have, in many ways, lost my generation and why they keep losing elections. Sorry, but I'd prefer the guy who promises me ointment for my inflamed urethra but will probably get obstructed in his attempt to obtain it. Because at least I know he's gonna have the decency to let me keep my pants on.
I'm looking for a president that'll install a colostomy bag for me so I don't have to use my peehole.
 
It's just a little mnemonic device to help you out anytime you start thinking, "Hey, isn't this exactly the type of thing he was chastising other candidates about doing?" Don't be silly -- it's okay if Bernie does it!

Your analogy is broken. Or at least- it fails to understand Sander's supporters (and perhaps the man himself).

Most Sanders supporters do not view corporate Dems like Biden as being a part of the same team. We might swallow our vomit and vote for the guy because the other option is Trump, but somebody who is fighting us on Medicare for All, student debt relief, the seriousness of climate change, marijuana legalization and the such is NOT on my team.

88958469_10159161295066037_8348976464154066944_o.jpg

This image (which was shared by a Warren supporter on my FB feed) might be a touch hyperbolic, but the reality is that Joe is anti-progress. And for many, our hopes and desires for this country have not been lowered (by Trump) to the point where anybody who might be able to get rid of Donald suddenly = the same team. See Romney, Mitt.

All of this to say- the reason Sander's supporters got so wound up over the Warren thing is because we viewed her as the same team. Her and Sanders align on almost all matters related to policy, and we viewed her end goal as (for the most part) our goal. Which is why I cared far more about stopping Joe than I did who would be the nominee between Warren and Sanders. And why she has been criticized the way she has.

In contrast, it is currently Sanders job to push Biden as far to the left as possible. Which, at the very least, means not dropping out until after the debate even though everyone involved knows the primary is all but wrapped up. Also-- just like last time, Bernie staying in the race allows him to rack up more delegates and influence the platform at the convention. Because a Biden presidency needs to look more like a team Sander's supporters want to join-- or a lot of them will stay home. Maybe that won't matter and it can be made up via suburban voters. Maybe it will.

But right now my Facebook wall is full of people sharing this quote:

“First, I must confess that over the last few years I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro's great stumbling block in the stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen's Council-er or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate who is more devoted to "order" than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says "I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I can't agree with your methods of direct action;" who paternalistically feels he can set the timetable for another man's freedom; who lives by the myth of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait until a "more convenient season."

- MLK


Now- of course- the irony is that it's largely been older black voters pushing Joe towards the nomination. But that doesn't change the fact that I am already seeing certain circles (particularly my Latino friends) who are pushing the idea that "maybe middle class whites need to suffer more before they will the light"-- even after the past four years have shown the dangers of that assessment.
 
Your analogy is broken. Or at least- it fails to understand Sander's supporters (and perhaps the man himself).

Most Sanders supporters do not view corporate Dems like Biden as being a part of the same team. We might swallow our vomit and vote for the guy because the other option is Trump, but somebody who is fighting us on Medicare for All, student debt relief, the seriousness of climate change, marijuana legalization and the such is NOT on my team.

View attachment 36052

This image (which was shared by a Warren supporter on my FB feed) might be a touch hyperbolic, but the reality is that Joe is anti-progress. And for many, our hopes and desires for this country have not been lowered (by Trump) to the point where anybody who might be able to get rid of Donald suddenly = the same team. See Romney, Mitt.

All of this to say- the reason Sander's supporters got so wound up over the Warren thing is because we viewed her as the same team. Her and Sanders align on almost all matters related to policy, and we viewed her end goal as (for the most part) our goal. Which is why I cared far more about stopping Joe than I did who would be the nominee between Warren and Sanders. And why she has been criticized the way she has.

In contrast, it is currently Sanders job to push Biden as far to the left as possible. Which, at the very least, means not dropping out until after the debate even though everyone involved knows it over (barring a miracle). And just like last time, Bernie staying in the race allows him to rack up more delegates and influence the platform at the convention. Because a Biden presidency needs to look more like a team Sander's supporters want to join-- or a lot of them will stay home. Maybe that won't matter and it can be made up via suburban voters.

But right now my Facebook wall is full of people sharing this quote:

“First, I must confess that over the last few years I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro's great stumbling block in the stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen's Council-er or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate who is more devoted to "order" than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says "I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I can't agree with your methods of direct action;" who paternalistically feels he can set the timetable for another man's freedom; who lives by the myth of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait until a "more convenient season."

- MLK


Now- of course- the irony is that it's largely been older black voters pushing Joe towards the nomination. But that doesn't change the fact that I am already seeing certain circles (particularly my Latino friends) who are pushing the idea that "maybe middle class whites need to suffer more before they will the light"-- even after the past four years have shown the dangers of that assessment.
Seriously, read this piece. I think it might help you come around to the idea that Biden might not end up being as terrible as you think it would be.

Opinion | This Is Not the Moment for Progressives to Despair
 
Solid article by the way. Not sure I buy it completely. Mostly because I think Biden will side with corporate America 99/100 times. But it's certainly what one has to hope for.
I liked the idea though, he is a Party guy ultimately if we change what the party represents (which in my ways we have) his views are certainly malleable enough to get more of a progressive agenda going forward, especially if he’s surrounded by a lot of progressive types in his cabinet.
 
Trump has suspended all travel to Europe with the exception of the UK.

There will be no people entering or leaving the US to and from Europe for the next 30 days to try to control coronavirus.
 
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