Political Discussion

I mean I know these people didn’t watch or read Lovecraft Country so what is beaming it into their collective unconscious?

The other thing we really have to wrap our head around is we have to stop calling these people stupid. All the name calling exacerbates the tensions.

while I think the people that stormed the Senate should be punished to the full extent of the law including their conspirators and instigators, we do need to figure out how to have an open dialog to even approach healing the country.
 
Lee Newman said:
The other possibility is that Wells and Atwood and Huxley are just clairvoyant.
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Also, Can we talk about all the people on social media who clearly have never read 1984 referencing 1984 incorrectly? My god people, I read it freshman year of high school but even if you haven’t just quickly read the plot summary off of Wikipedia. Though I guess most of these folks are the same ones that frequently misapply the First Amendment so I am probably asking too much.
 
TenderLovingKiller® said:
Also, Can we talk about all the people on social media who clearly have never read 1984 referencing 1984 incorrectly? My god people, I read it freshman year of high school but even if you haven’t just quickly read the plot summary off of Wikipedia. Though I guess most of these folks are the same ones that frequently misapply the First Amendment so I am probably asking too much.
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It’s no surprise that the people who discount everything in the second amendment other than the words “the right to bear arms” don’t understand the first amendment.
 
Indymisanthrope said:
I think QAnon is total bullshit and even I have to admit it’s mighty disconcerting that the whole fantasy narrative climaxes in a military intervention, mass arrests, and the revelation that some of our most beloved celebrities are actually monsters...

...and in the last week this can possibly play out, there are >20,000 National Guardsmen in DC, and Tom Hanks and John Legend are both going to be prominently featured. And we’re learning that Armie Hammer is an actual blood-drinking cannibal.

If that’s a bit troubling to me, imagine if you’re the type who sees omens and signs everywhere. This coming week has to feel portentous.
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Wait, what? I can't keep up with these sleuths....
 
In the news locally, some Boston police officers are under investigation for taking part in the DC riots. At least 1 can be seen inside the capital.

And this is not unique to Boston.

It's scary that law enforcement personel have fallen down this rabbit hole.
 
TenderLovingKiller® said:
Also, Can we talk about all the people on social media who clearly have never read 1984 referencing 1984 incorrectly? My god people, I read it freshman year of high school but even if you haven’t just quickly read the plot summary off of Wikipedia. Though I guess most of these folks are the same ones that frequently misapply the First Amendment so I am probably asking too much.
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People misunderstanding 1984 is doubleplusungood.
 
This has been a really good discussion the last couple of pages.

I wonder if there is a correlation between people susceptible to this type of Q nonsense and childhood trauma. Couple that with a deserved sense of anger and frustration at the overarching state of not only our country, but the world in general, and you have a real sense of dissatisfaction with a broad swath of the populace.

Specifically in the US, our system has been a broken and fractured one for at least two or three generations. The rise in corporatocracy within our system has left all but the top echelon disenfranchised. So it doesn’t matter what side of the political spectrum you fall under, the systemic inequality within US society leaves all of us out in the cold. It’s not so much class warfare, as it is class domination.
 
Indymisanthrope said:
Totally separate thing. Apparently he’s a serial abuser of women and, if the screenshots being shared on social media are all legit, is into some very dark stuff.

It’s unrelated to the Q stuff though.

OR IS IT?!

Just makes it hard to tell your loved ones “FFS no, Hollywood isn’t full of blood-drinking cannibals EXCEPT for the one who texts women ‘I am 100% a cannibal’ and asks to cut off their toes.”
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wut
 
Tyr said:
I wonder if there is a correlation between people susceptible to this type of Q nonsense and childhood trauma. Couple that with a deserved sense of anger and frustration at the overarching state of not only our country, but the world in general, and you have a real sense of dissatisfaction with a broad swath of the populace.
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I often wonder about this, because I was raised by a stepmother whose whole family was something like the Mormon equivalent of today's Q conspiracists (if you've read Educated, think of some of those beliefs in a respectable, suburban setting)- post-John Birch Society with constant raving about the Clintons, liberals, criminal black people, job-stealing Mexicans, how evil MLK Jr, was, etc, all from people with nursing and law degrees... and yet of us 6 kids that she raised, only 1 went pro-Trump, but of the "these QAnon loonies do not represent the REAL Trump supporters" variety. Like, I was raised, I left home, went to one of the most conservative colleges this side of Liberty U, and so on, so I don't know why I've always been such a skeptical person and have never been able to accept the conservative beliefs I've always been surrounded by, let alone their crazier offshoots. I'm not even sure I could call it a choice not to believe, it just happened.

In my case, maybe the fact she was abusive helped me never accept what she taught me, but in some people I've seen the abusiveness push the kids towards their parents' dark worldviews. 🤷‍♂️
 
So, can somebody explain to me why a bunch of the fringe far right conspiracy folks (man, they don’t even seem fringe anymore) seem to be in love with Tulsi Gabbard? She’s not even a congresswoman anymore is she? Is it because they viewed her as an inside woman? Or because they’re infatuated with a perceived refusal to tow a party line? Perhaps it’s Joe Rogan’s “woke white folk” effect? There does seem to be some stuff there that would attract the right but also a bunch that wouldn’t.
 
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the erosion of reality has been steady and self-serving, and, as the fabric has ripped further, some have stepped back in horror while others have further cultivated and taken advantage of it.

if nothing can be certain and there is a proven history of shadowy figures through time, why not grasp on to those frayed edges instead of just "believing the narrative?" in recent years, reality has been the main thing up for debate above any other issue and it's terrifying. the monster is out of the lab.

I will say that I am not keen on the speculation of childhood trauma in regards to this Qult. there may be some correlation, but I see just as much due to the fear of losing privilege, fear of the other, or woo-woo folks that have more drug problems than traumatic backgrounds. I see an education issue and a media issue.

I also see a lot of overlap with family members that practiced Scientology in the 80s-90s. Scientology doesn't kick things off with the space dictator blowing people up with bombs- they start with self-assessment and tools for "reflection." Q doesn't grab people by saying hollywood is drinking baby blood- they start with misleading examples of the real issues of trafficking and abuse, and corruption in power. it's a slow and steady pull for most, where they sprinkle in half truths that cast enough doubt to make them consider the more outlandish.
 
bfly said:
I also see a lot of overlap with family members that practiced Scientology in the 80s-90s. Scientology doesn't kick things off with the space dictator blowing people up with bombs- they start with self-assessment and tools for "reflection." Q doesn't grab people by saying hollywood is drinking baby blood- they start with misleading examples of the real issues of trafficking and abuse, and corruption in power. it's a slow and steady pull for most, where they sprinkle in half truths that cast enough doubt to make them consider the more outlandish.
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I also see it as a repackaging of the Satanic Panic of the 80s-90s. It takes something good (protecting kids) and weaponizes it to deliver other beliefs or promote loyalty to the ingroup. These kinds of things have always been a feature of American life, but TV and the internet have been able to spread them so much wider.
 
bfly said:
the erosion of reality has been steady and self-serving, and, as the fabric has ripped further, some have stepped back in horror while others have further cultivated and taken advantage of it.

if nothing can be certain and there is a proven history of shadowy figures through time, why not grasp on to those frayed edges instead of just "believing the narrative?" in recent years, reality has been the main thing up for debate above any other issue and it's terrifying. the monster is out of the lab.

I will say that I am not keen on the speculation of childhood trauma in regards to this Qult. there may be some correlation, but I see just as much due to the fear of losing privilege, fear of the other, or woo-woo folks that have more drug problems than traumatic backgrounds. I see an education issue and a media issue.

I also see a lot of overlap with family members that practiced Scientology in the 80s-90s. Scientology doesn't kick things off with the space dictator blowing people up with bombs- they start with self-assessment and tools for "reflection." Q doesn't grab people by saying hollywood is drinking baby blood- they start with misleading examples of the real issues of trafficking and abuse, and corruption in power. it's a slow and steady pull for most, where they sprinkle in half truths that cast enough doubt to make them consider the more outlandish.
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interesting because that’s the way NXIIM worked too. Self help and self assessment built to a pyramid scheme that then lead its female members to sex slavery to the founder. There is a certain amount of preying on insecurities present in that cult.
 
Indymisanthrope said:
Totally, I definitely don’t want to convey that I believe prior abuse is a straight line to making one MORE likely to find themselves suckered into this kind of thing. But it is more likely to put one at risk in general, inasmuch as a history of abuse can also be a risk factor for trouble with education, drug use, isolation from family, and impact to self-worth.
his doesn’t fit cleanly into Max Weber’s sociological descriptions of the stages of religious movements, which makes its post-Trump future even more unpredictable.
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agreed, I just try to be mindful of armchair psychology with strangers. I'll consider or discuss with close friends, but try to limit the public projection.

similar to criminal analysis, while it may be true to say that serial killers are more likely to have suffered childhood abuse, you don't want to say that those who have suffered childhood abuse are more likely to become serial killers. the numbers might look the same on paper or some may call it semantics, but it can have detrimental effects to those who recognize themselves, or be dismissive to people who have suffered and not gone on to become monsters or cult members.

it's just a preference of mine and why I say I am not keen on it, but this is an open forum.

as to your other comments, yes, yes, and agreed. I've always been intrigued by the mechanisms and consequences of cults, and studied deceptive communication in college that addressed many of these events and figures. on top of that and the family in Scientology and Q, it's something I will alway find interesting, frightening, and sad.
 
Indymisanthrope said:
Totally, I definitely don’t want to convey that I believe prior abuse is a straight line to making one MORE likely to find themselves suckered into this kind of thing. But it is more likely to put one at risk in general, inasmuch as a history of abuse can also be a risk factor for trouble with education, drug use, isolation from family, and impact to self-worth.



One of the interesting things about Q stuff is how it acts as a Grand Unifying Theory that ties together so many individual obsessions and has a “something for everyone” character to it. Satanic stuff? Check. Won’t someone think of the children? Check. Patriotism, cloning, Hollyweird, the New World Order, election security, racism, a fun way to pass the time, pseudo-Christianity, alternative spirituality, a secret history of the world, a soupçon of MRA stuff, and more? Check. Check. Check, check, check.

Also a classic cult/sect recruitment technique. Developing an affinity by identifying your common values and beliefs is the gateway for almost every new religious movement, especially the ones that survive past the cult stage of charismatic leader to the broader sect phase. What’s a bit unique about Q is its conspicuous absence of a charismatic leader. Q “himself,” if any such person actually exists, remains anonymous and only speaks in coded language. The only charismatic figurehead they have is Trump, who (aside from a notable lack of charisma) has to either disavow or feign ignorance of the movement, meaning he can’t engage in direct ‘leadership’ either. This doesn’t fit cleanly into Max Weber’s sociological descriptions of the stages of religious movements, which makes its post-Trump future even more unpredictable.
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It also plays well to Trump’s supporters who are ready to champion him for whatever policy they wanted to vote for and ignore the rest.

it’s also their excuse when their stuff goes
Wrong.
 
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