Political Discussion

nolalady said:
So.much.to.say.brain.exploding....
Long story short, from what I have read about the US economy and people in the 20th century, we started as a nation who understood that socialist policies were not only good but needed for economic recovery after the inequality of the Guilded Age. But there was a huge attack on socialist policies in the 1970's during another recession. That's when our astounding elite minds decided that letting corporations take over to end government wasteful spending (there was also the restructuring of welfare benefits to try to get "welfare moms" of the welfare rosters--I have so much to say about these racist, sexist laws and the family court structure that led to all of it, but that is for another day). Slowly as investors and financiers were seeing amazing profit potential by cutting government programs and letting them be run by contractors from for profit companies, we started getting fed the line that the government was wasteful; worker protections just got in the way of doing business; and everything could be done easier and cheaper if it's done in a for profit contractor system where people don't have to be provided with insurance or retirement--just don't look too hard at the work produced. It took a lot of popular media brainwashing for us, the American people, to embrace these tenets as truth, but with the red scare in the 50's and 60's, it wasn't too hard to equate socialism with communism--and communism was, of course, the devil.

Now we are here, where neoliberal policies of unrestricted corporate monopolies are actually eroding our democracy--because the only people that get heard are campaign donors. Most of our top economist still believe in some aspects of trickle down economics even though it's been thoroughly debunked. Business as usual is now unsustainable because the only way to increase profits for shareholders is to pay workers less and replace parts and pieces with cheaper materials or try to make a process quicker by automation or just plain cutting corners. We've painted ourselves into a corner that we can't get out of. Many public retirement pensions rely on the stock market making consistent returns and our economy is inevitably tied to the stock market regardless of how decoupled it looks right now. Karl Marx and Adam Smith both warned that financiers/rentiers (people who make money off of rents and interest instead of production) were great servants but horrible masters. They both warn against this class having power as it creates a stew of corruption. This is who is in charge and because of creative accounting and insane financial "products", they have created this environment where the stock market does not reflect the actual economy, and inequality is running rampant. This isn't the first time in this country that inequality has been bad, and it's certainly not the first time in history. There is always a realignment. There is always a rebalancing. It can be peaceful or it can be violent. I'm hoping for the peaceful solution where we pass a lot of laws that protects workers and rebalances the stock market to something that again looks like it's mimicking the economy--but this will require us to tax billionaires a whole bunch which we in the US don't like. We enjoy the myth of the self made man that gained wealth from his own two hands--this is a myth that keeps most of the US against socialist policies. We don't understand that behind every self made man is usually a bunch of inherited cash, and that we, as regular people have no real path to wealth anymore thanks to the belief that we shouldn't hassle billionaires because they "earned" their money, instead of the truth that they exploited people like you and me to make those billions.

ETA: If you want to read about how billionaires are eroding democracy, here's a good article: The Political Immortality of Billionaires
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no citations?
 
Dtknuckles said:
I just don’t think that the slim majority in both the attitudes of the voting population and the legislature is enough to make permanent changes to the society that we need.
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I agree with this in principle but when issues like health care or minimum wage would be a significant improvement on society, and even those people who don't agree with them, then those changes should be made. If it's do we want to paint the walls of the capitol green or gray then debate about this for a while.
 
wokeupnew said:
I agree with this in principle but when issues like health care or minimum wage would be a significant improvement on society, and even those people who don't agree with them, then those changes should be made. If it's do we want to paint the walls of the capitol green or gray then debate about this for a while.
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Don’t get me started on the color of the accent wall Trump put in.


Seriously though there is room to push. Biden’s education plan is really progressive even compare to the Obama plan. I‘M Excited to see what gets done in that area.
 
Dtknuckles said:
Don’t get me started on the color of the accent wall Trump put in.


Seriously though there is room to push. Biden’s education plan is really progressive even compare to the Obama plan. I‘M Excited to see what gets done in that area.
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oh wait, I think I misread your original post as you not thinking a slim majority should be making changes. But yes, I do think the minority will yell about the "silent majority" the fact it's only 50-50, etc for reasons why things shouldn't get done. Thank fuck the dems won the senate, but they really got fucked by not winning additional seats in Maine, NC and elsewhere.
 
wokeupnew said:
oh wait, I think I misread your original post as you not thinking a slim majority should be making changes. But yes, I do think the minority will yell about the "silent majority" the fact it's only 50-50, etc for reasons why things shouldn't get done. Thank fuck the dems won the senate, but they really got fucked by not winning additional seats in Maine, NC and elsewhere.
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It is more about I don’t think they can make changes. Complaining about reality is futile It’s better to change the political will of the population and then the legislators. Progressive’s have to have short term and long term goals.
 
wokeupnew said:
YES! And a lot of Conservative voters are on board for Stimuluses, some aspects of UBI, M4A. Without labels of socialism, etc, most people like progressive policies.
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Yep, yep, yep.
The problem here in Louisiana is that there is no popular ballot referendum so voters themselves are not allowed to ask to put something like raising the minimum wage on a ballot. It must come from a legislator. This isn't the case in all states, but it is here. This makes it very hard to push anything that doesn't line up with lobbying efforts in Baton Rouge.
 
nolalady said:
Yep, yep, yep.
The problem here in Louisiana is that there is no popular ballot referendum so voters themselves are not allowed to ask to put something like raising the minimum wage on a ballot. It must come from a legislator. This isn't the case in all states, but it is here. This makes it very hard to push anything that doesn't line up with lobbying efforts in Baton Rouge.
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There were three progressive ballot measures in CA this last election that didn’t pass.
 
Dtknuckles said:
How far left would you think it would be possible to pass legislation while staying in power to ensure that it does not immediately get overturned?
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This is mamby pamby milquetoast thinking TBH. You think the GOP asked itself how far is too far and what will the public accept? Nah. Scooter Libby pushed hard on "50%+1 is the only majority needed and screw anyone who doesn't like it". Between that and redistricting, republicans got shit done. despicable policies that only benefit the wealthy and screw the poor, but they got done. we need some shameless "i don't care if you don't like it, fuck you and do it" from the left. they have exactly 2 years before things get tight in congress. already they're acting like the republicans are doing things in good faith.

Dtknuckles said:
The left is only beginning to fight back.
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AOC and Bernie, a bit, I guess. Everyone else is business as usual. Schumer? useless. Pelosi can play political chess but she moves slow.
 
Dtknuckles said:
There were three progressive ballot measures in CA this last election that didn’t pass.
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Largely due to a smear campaign by the companies this legislation was trying to reign in. And now there is legal action against HR 22 as they think it's unconstitutional (and I agree).

Of the $203 million spent by the Yes on Prop 22 campaign, some $57 million was contributed by Uber and another $49 million by Lyft. By Wednesday morning, news of the results had rapidly increased the ride-hail companies shares prices and valuations by tens of billions of dollars in premarket trading. Uber saw a return on its spending of nearly 19,300 percent, while Lyft saw a more modest return of around 3,670 percent.

The methods through which this was achieved were, in a word, dirty. Yes on Prop 22 spent millions on misleading “progressive” voting guide mailers, sent out chief executives on media tours, and paid $85,000 to a firm run by the leader of California’s NAACP chapter in a bid to paint themselves as champions of racial justice. The campaign made misleading claims about wages and worker flexibility, and Uber and Lyft weaponized their popular apps to push Yes on Prop 22 propaganda to customers and drivers alike.
www.vice.com

Proposition 22's Victory Shows How Uber and Lyft Break Democracy

Corporations spent millions to mislead voters about an anti-labor ballot measure, won, and reaped billions on the stock market. This is not healthy.
www.vice.com www.vice.com

Here's the stuff on the law suit:
The drivers claim that Prop 22, which was approved by California voters last November, violates the state’s constitution by “stripping” the state legislature’s ability to empower workers to organize, as well as by “illegally” excluding ride-hail drivers from the state workers’ compensation program.

But drivers are trying to use this language to argue that Prop 22 was illegal from its inception. The plaintiffs note that California’s state constitution gives the legislature “unlimited” authority to provide for a worker’s compensation system, “so that authority cannot be limited by a statutory initiative.”

“We look forward to the court affirming that gig companies cannot strip workers of their fundamental right to bargain for better pay and working conditions — and that corporations alone should not dictate the laws in our state,” said Bob Schoonover, president of SEIU Local 721 and SEIU California State Council, in a statement.
www.theverge.com

Uber and Lyft drivers in California sue to overturn Prop 22 ballot measure

Gig economy companies don’t have to classify workers as employees thanks to the ballot measure.
www.theverge.com www.theverge.com
 
yukbon said:
This is mamby pamby milquetoast thinking TBH. You think the GOP asked itself how far is too far and what will the public accept? Nah. Scooter Libby pushed hard on "50%+1 is the only majority needed and screw anyone who doesn't like it". Between that and redistricting, republicans got shit done. despicable policies that only benefit the wealthy and screw the poor, but they got done. we need some shameless "i don't care if you don't like it, fuck you and do it" from the left. they have exactly 2 years before things get tight in congress. already they're acting like the republicans are doing things in good faith.



AOC and Bernie, a bit, I guess. Everyone else is business as usual. Schumer? useless. Pelosi can play political chess but she moves slow.
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No the right rolled up their sleeves and got their propaganda mechanism working to change people’s minds.
 
yukbon said:
This is mamby pamby milquetoast thinking TBH. You think the GOP asked itself how far is too far and what will the public accept? Nah. Scooter Libby pushed hard on "50%+1 is the only majority needed and screw anyone who doesn't like it". Between that and redistricting, republicans got shit done. despicable policies that only benefit the wealthy and screw the poor, but they got done. we need some shameless "i don't care if you don't like it, fuck you and do it" from the left. they have exactly 2 years before things get tight in congress. already they're acting like the republicans are doing things in good faith.



AOC and Bernie, a bit, I guess. Everyone else is business as usual. Schumer? useless. Pelosi can play political chess but she moves slow.
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I disagree with you on several points here. The overarching one being the “fuck you and do it” approach from the left. All that would accomplish is short term gains and long term pushbacks that would be more extreme than they even are today. It’s an aggressive form of ‘let’s stoop to their level and hope they accept it’ thinking and tbh it’s the last thing we need more of in politics.

I’ve stated before in here that we need more left strategists and think tanks. And while Pelosi may be a chess player, and rightly focus on the end game, the area the left has been getting outplayed on for decades is the middle game. It’s why chess players do not just focus on the end game. There’s a different level of mid game politics at play between the left and the right. If the dems have any chance of making impactful near term and long term systemic changes, they’re going to need to press their approach on multiple levels all at the same time. AOC and Bernie are great at opening move strategies and motivating certain subsets of the base, however, more dems need to take a mid game approach to converting and leveling the center field politicians. The right has been doing that for years and is still doing it at this very moment between McConnell and Shumer.

Increase the amount of multi-level strategists and approaches utilized by the left and start seeing those field markers change.
 
RenegadeMonster said:
Wow, federal minimum wage is still $7.25? That is just insane and less then half $15 an hour. You can't live off that even with 3 jobs.
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Not sure what you mean there. Do you mean 3 full-time jobs? As in, working 120 hours per week?

Obviously unfeasible in the long run for health reasons, but if we're talking strictly money then you'd make $43,500 (6000 hours worked). The median individual income in the U.S. is around $36,000.
 
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