Political Discussion

Melt Face Molly Drop said:
Are they opposed to the additional money entirely or just the $2k vs $1400 discrepancy?
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From what I've read, Biden wants GOP buy in for his plan. The GOP wants to take the $1.9T and split it up into multiple relief packages with no checks going out to people directly. Some of the Dems want to try to work with the GOP but the GOP has said that they are against the full bill passing. I think some of these dems are also against direct payments to citizens--but you'll never catch them saying that.

Of course, Republicans sidelined Democrats twice with reconciliation in 2017 after winning control of Washington under former President Donald Trump. And many have panned Biden’s $1.9 trillion legislation as too big and too stuffed with progressive proposals like increasing the minimum wage and expanding sick leave.

That chilly attitude from Republicans has informed Democrats’ thinking. They don’t want to get bogged down in endless negotiations in Biden’s first 100 days, particularly after seeing the last coronavirus relief bill take eight months to pass. While a bipartisan compromise would be preferable, Democrats say, they won't let that supersede the needs of the country.

Schumer (D-N.Y.), the new Senate majority leader, said Thursday that “if our Republican colleagues decide to oppose this urgent and necessary legislation, we will move forward without them.”

The bipartisan coalition hasn't given up; it held a meeting on Wednesday to discuss their efforts. Sen. Maggie Hassan (D-N.H.)., a member in the group, insisted that “bipartisan discussions are still happening with the commonsense caucus. I think we all believe in it.”

www.politico.com

‘Betrayed’: Republicans urge Biden to change course on stimulus

A bipartisan Senate coalition looks likely to be sidelined.
www.politico.com www.politico.com
 
The way I see the stimulus package playing out is Biden is gonna meet with (and counter) the GOP 10 today. I think the counter is going to be something like reducing to the total household income cap from $300k to $150k for families and $150k to $75k for individuals but that would be about it. If the 10 agree to go along with that or make a more reasonable counter great the Dems will keep negotiating, but if they don’t then Biden called their bluff, he can get everything passed via budget reconciliation but still claim he tried to include them but they were unreasonable. I do think the $1,400 checks are non-negotiable though. Too many voters were promised $2k and that would put a hard target on folks like Warnok’s back during the 2022 midterm.

TL;DR: I think the $1,400 stimulus checks are coming, along with everything else in Biden’s stimulus package and I think it will be voted through this month along Party lines via budget reconciliation. There is a lot of people in the Biden administration that dealt with this obstructionist bullshit during the Obama administration and they are not gonna spend too much of their time and capital attempting to capitulate to the GOP this time around.
 
TenderLovingKiller® said:
The way I see the stimulus package playing out is Biden is gonna meet with (and counter) the GOP 10 today. I think the counter is going to be something like reducing to the total household income cap from $300k to $150k for families and $150k to $75k for individuals but that would be about it. If the 10 agree to go along with that or make a more reasonable counter great the Dems will keep negotiating, but if they don’t then Biden called their bluff, he can get everything passed via budget reconciliation but still claim he tried to include them but they were unreasonable. I do think the $1,400 checks are non-negotiable though. Too many voters were promised $2k and that would put a hard target on folks like Warnok’s back during the 2022 midterm.

TL;DR: I think the $1,400 stimulus checks are coming, along with everything else in Biden’s stimulus package and I think it will be voted through this month along Party lines via budget reconciliation. There is a lot of people in the Biden administration that dealt with this obstructionist bullshit during the Obama administration and they are not gonna spend too much of their time and capital attempting to capitulate to the GOP this time around.
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I guess what I don’t understand and also what @Melt Face Molly Drop was also asking, why do we need to entertain them? Why can’t we just force it through with the majority? Or do Dems not actually have the majority with some ppl like Manchin against it?

(not asking you directly, unless you know, but asking hypothetically)

EDIT: was MFMD asking not ayayrawn
 
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ranbalam said:
The latest nonsense among some of the Trumpers via QANON is that Trump has videos of Obama, Pelosi and Biden killing children. He is going to present those videos on February 15th, then comes martial law, and Trump is inaugurated on March 3rd after the dems mentioned above are executed for their crimes.
Do people actually believe this? Come on.
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One of the things about these idiots I don't get is why they always attach specific dates to their dumbass conspiracies, it only makes it doubly funnier when the date passes and nothing happens.
 
wokeupnew said:
I guess what I don’t understand and also what @Melt Face Molly Drop was also asking, why do we need to entertain them? Why can’t we just force it through with the majority? Or do Dems not actually have the majority with some ppl like Manchin against it?

(not asking you directly, unless you know, but asking hypothetically)

EDIT: was MFMD asking not ayayrawn
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They want to say that they played nice with the GOP, but the GOP refused to play nice with them. This is largely a symbolic gesture, but dems realize that if they start passing bills without bipartisan support that they are just one election away from having it done to them by the GOP when/if they get back into power.
gaporter said:
One of the things about these idiots I don't get is why they always attach specific dates to their dumbass conspiracies, it only makes it doubly funnier when the date passes and nothing happens.
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They have to cement something in reality...
 
wokeupnew said:
I guess what I don’t understand and also what @ayayrawn was also asking, why do we need to entertain them? Why can’t we just force it through with the majority?

(not asking you directly, unless you know, but asking hypothetically)
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Ultimately, they don’t and I think up until yesterday morning they Dems were all set to go it alone. I think they are still moving forward in the budget committee this week regardless of the ongoing negotiations. As many Senators and other talking heads pointed out; The GOP were totally okay with this process then it was to give corporations a $3 trillion dollar tax break. Also, once it passes no one will give a fuck if it passed the Senate by 51 or 60 votes as long as there is enough money to make things better. Over the past 10 years the middle has been completely gutted on the Right. Very few voters that are centrists vote Republican anymore meaning a much higher number of the democratic base actually like the idea of bipartisanship and expect at least a good faith effort and while I believe the Dems will give it a go my guess is it will be proven fairly quickly that the GOP is full of shit and not really willlng to negotiate. The bare minimum the GOP could have done is offer this counter proposal (which is less than a third of what Biden was asking for). My guess is Biden had some baked in stuff in this package that he would be willing to give a hair cut to if the GOP came at it from a reasonable place but that isn’t going to happen. So the Dems will get their package passed, It won’t take anymore time than it would have if Dems refused to hear out the GOP but it will also give the Dems cover against future political attacks, where they are now able to say “we tried bipartisanship, they were unwilling to work with us”. Plus this will go on the “obstructionist checklist” that the Senate is compiling if they ever want to give nuking the filibuster a go they are gonna have to prove to the few holdouts on their conservative wing that the current setup is untenable. This is another part of that calculus.
 
Also, I would worry too much about Manchin regarding Biden’s stimulus plan. The current GOP Governor (who switched over from the Dems to the GOP early in the Trump presidency) came out to the left of Manchin regarding stimulus. So Manchin has plenty of political capital to vote the package through as is. I don’t think he is gonna take a stand between this and the people of WV getting full proposed stimulus money especially if Justice decides to run against Manchin the next time he is up for reelection.

 
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TenderLovingKiller® said:
Also, I would worry too much about Manchin regarding Biden’s stimulus plan. The current GOP Governor (who switch over from the Dems to the GOP early in the Trump presidency) came out to the left of Manchin regarding stimulus. So Manchin has plenty of political capital to vote the package through as is. I don’t think he is gonna take a stand between this and the people of WV getting full proposed stimulus money especially if Justice decides to run against Manchin the next time he is up for reelection.

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It seems that the American people at large are for direct payments regardless of whether you are a republican or democrat. I'm pretty sure the only people who are against this are people who think a K-shaped recovery is fine.
 
TenderLovingKiller® said:
Also, I would worry too much about Manchin regarding Biden’s stimulus plan. The current GOP Governor (who switch over from the Dems to the GOP early in the Trump presidency) came out to the left of Manchin regarding stimulus. So Manchin has plenty of political capital to vote the package through as is. I don’t think he is gonna take a stand between this and the people of WV getting full proposed stimulus money especially if Justice decides to run against Manchin the next time he is up for reelection.

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I've always been curious about the possibility of Republicans growing a brain, and circling back around to support things like M4A and renewable energy. Feel like it may be a viable strat at some point against some dinosaurs in the dem party.
 
ayayrawn said:
I've always been curious about the possibility of Republicans growing a brain, and circling back around to support things like M4A and renewable energy. Feel like it may be a viable strat at some point against some dinosaurs in the dem party.
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I would love to see moderate democrats like Biden come around to the idea of M4A as well.
 
ayayrawn said:
I've always been curious about the possibility of Republicans growing a brain, and circling back around to support things like M4A and renewable energy. Feel like it may be a viable strat at some point against some dinosaurs in the dem party.
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Geez, if we buy into populous legislation like M4A and raising minimum wage (a thing that both democrat and republican voters support in large numbers), we might appear socialist....oh the horror, the horror.
wokeupnew said:
nope




Unless you're asking about the combined Biden/Harris ticket, in which case, I don't know
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The combined ticket was touting an expansion of ACA with expanded public option markets and more subsidies to health care companies--this was the plan that insurance lobbyists were touting to Biden in 2020. He was also calling to expand Medicare to start covering people over 60, instead of 65--which is the opposite way we were supposed to go if we were worried about having enough money for Gen-Xers to get Medicare. I've been watching this more than anything else since I'm in the healthcare industry, and my guess, given everything is that the dems will tout M4A but will ultimately fall back on the ACA expansion and more subsidies to health insurance companies because this is what Washington does--promises us great things and then falls back on old, familiar models that already have proven not to work, but are great vehicles for funneling money to friends and business associates.
 
ranbalam said:
The latest nonsense among some of the Trumpers via QANON is that Trump has videos of Obama, Pelosi and Biden killing children. He is going to present those videos on February 15th, then comes martial law, and Trump is inaugurated on March 3rd after the dems mentioned above are executed for their crimes.
Do people actually believe this? Come on.
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meanwhile the myanmar army did what those qanon supporters wish to do. They seized the power citing widespread election fraud ( without evidence, naturally)

www.theguardian.com

Myanmar army takes power in coup as Aung San Suu Kyi detained

Military has previously threatened to ‘take action’ over alleged fraud in a November election
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com
 
Jan said:
meanwhile the myanmar army did what those qanon supporters wish to do. They seized the power citing widespread election fraud ( without evidence, naturally)

www.theguardian.com

Myanmar army takes power in coup as Aung San Suu Kyi detained

Military has previously threatened to ‘take action’ over alleged fraud in a November election
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com
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so now EU sanctions are possible ... nevermind what has happened since she was elected. i have a strong opinion on her silence during the ongoing genocide in her country
 
BazookaTooth said:
so now EU sanctions are possible ... nevermind what has happened since she was elected. i have a strong opinion on her silence during the ongoing genocide in her country
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Yes, whilst it was pandering to the army to try to maintain a semblance of democracy and prevent a coup she is clearly complicit by said silence. I don’t think that this coup changes that. Sadly as always with sanctions on a country of this type I can’t see them hurting the military dictatorship, they’ll just bring more suffering on the countries ordinary citizens.

Ironically harsh sanctions on China for their actions in respect of the Uighur Muslims and in Hong Kong likely would have much more of an effect, we are just both too invested into their supply chains and scared of their leadership.
 
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