The new definition of 'Freedom' - you're on your own.
Political Discussion
- Thread starter David A.
- Start date
And if you want to have some extra fun, you can look up how much over the table campaign funding our left and right wing politicians get from pharmaceutical companies--and that's not including any dark money. The truth is that we have a ruling elite that don't want to turn over power. The best way for them to ingrain their power is to suck up all the wealth. They use both democrats and republicans, both right and left to make sure that we create a modern feudalistic system where a small portion of the population holds all the wealth while the rest of us pay rent, or mortgages, or subscription fees, or medical premiums or any other form of debt that we must take out in order to survive what feels to me to be an increasingly hostile environment.
The problem isn't just the right wing of the party. The problem is the left neoliberals that have experted our country into chaos and inequality. When Adam Smith wrote about freedom, he was writing about a very specific type of freedom--economic freedom. Freedom from being tethered to a plot of land because your family is constantly in debt to a lord. Freedom to become educated and create wealth for yourself without the fear that a king will just take it. When he wrote of freedom, he wrote of life, liberty and the pursuit of property--not happiness. Our forefathers changed the wording, but back then owning property equaled happiness, because it wasn't a given before that time. In the 1930's, when populism really took hold, phrases like "dignity in work" start popping up. The idea of full employment and prosperity for all seized the masses. We took a very hard turn away from this thinking in the 1970's but this was linked to thinking in the 1960's, when we decided to open our trade to countries that were not democratic--before this time we were trading with Asian countries but only Japan and South Korea. When we decided to buy goods from countries that did not share our democratic values and stopped asking questions about how they were able to produce goods so cheaply, I think that's when we lost our soul as a nation. When we decided cheap stuff was more important than compensating people properly, we started this cycle that accelerated inequality.
Unfortunately...I agree.
When I see flat out nutjobs like AOC and the rather phony Ilhan Omar, not only do they make progess more unreachable, they play into the hands of the opposing forces. You should think that in a fair world AOC and Omar cancel out nutjobs on the other side like Taylor-Greene and Boebert, but actually they work in the other direction by pulling people further apart.
At least I have some respect for Nancy. There is an element of alruism and service in her. I have sympathy for Kevin, though. It isn't his fault he was born without balls.
Where you are pointing towards, and so am I, is that unspoken word - communism. Unfortunately that word, and Karl Marx generally, have become synonymous with totalitarianism. That wasn't what it was supposed to be. China, much as I abhor so much of their abuses (and they are totalitarian, but then again so is Trump), are right - capitalism is an interim step.
In Star Trek - First Contact, there is a scene where a woman from 21st century Earth gets on board the Enterprise. She is in awe over the ship, and asks Picard how anyone could afford to build it. Picard, somewhat fatuously, responds that in the 23rd century, there is no money and they do not work for individual gain but for the good of mankind overall.
Most people I am sure missed the meaning. Picard was saying that the 23rd century of Star Trek is communist!
Dtknuckles
Well-Known Member
It's not a snuff box, just made to look like one. It's actually a wiretap device, so Putin can hear the discussion and give him orders through an in-ear device.
I've been thinking about this a lot.
So first, there is a paper on inequality that shows how free markets tend towards oligarchy. It's a tidy little equation and they propose that the only way for free markets to remain free is to have some sort of redistribution coefficient. This redistribution coefficient in our current system is taxes--which fall apart for the uber wealthy due to our current brand of financialized capitalism. Second, humans only ever made advances in science, art, literature, and engineering when they cooperate. Our species two best attributes are our brains and our ability to cooperate. I really need to read more Lenin because I think we are on the same line of thinking when it comes to economies based on cooperation. So how do we impose a system that is based on sharing and redistribution in order to keep people economically free?
Joe Mac
Well-Known Member
With Leninist thought I always struggled with the notion of the revolutionary vanguard. The idea troubles me. That said Russia in the late 19th and early 20th century was still an incredibly backward agrarian economy that was only a few decades past feudalism and serfdom and so perhaps it wasn’t the ideal candidate for revolution in line with strict Marxist teachings and that became more of a necessity. The difficult questions regarding the scope and longevity of the ensuing dictatorship of the proletariat were never really addressed in a Russian context.
Dtknuckles
Well-Known Member
Marianne Williamson was labeled a new age look during the election, but she was smart enough to understand that capitalism conditions us to see every action through the prism of economic value.
Sighs, most moderate and liberal news sources are now saying the Democrats really need to cave into Joe Manchin's demands or nothing is going to get done.
Joe Manchin.
He's confirmed he's a solid no on the Build Back a Better America bill. Negotiations are done, there isn't anything the democrats can do now to negotiate a yes vote.
This is after the bill has been cut down to be less than 2 trillion.
He also had comments over the last couple of days that he will not support any legislation which extends the child tax credit, because people are using it to buy drugs.
Like wtf Joe.
He's confirmed he's a solid no on the Build Back a Better America bill. Negotiations are done, there isn't anything the democrats can do now to negotiate a yes vote.
This is after the bill has been cut down to be less than 2 trillion.
He also had comments over the last couple of days that he will not support any legislation which extends the child tax credit, because people are using it to buy drugs.
Like wtf Joe.
Dtknuckles
Well-Known Member
Because the overwhelming majority of parents have the time to buy buy and do drugs.
Joe Manchin says he is a no because it's in the best interest of his constituents.
Yet West Virginia supports the Build Back a Better America bill by 42 points in the latest poll. It is immensely popular, even with republicans.
He said in the past that the bill was to expensive and would hurt the economy. And that his number was 1.7 trillion. The house got him his number of 1.7 trillion, and now that we have the number he was asking for he's a "no".
He says the Democrats did not meet his demands. That they did not take things out of the bill, only shortened the length of time programs ran for. And he said quote. "Let's face it and be honest with ourselves, we all know congress will renew these programs if we allow them to continue. They won't be temporary, they will be permanent."
However, this is totally not true. Many things were indeed cut from the bill. Things like paid family leave just to name one thing. Childcare for another...
And no, temporary things, such as the child tax credit being extended by 1 year does not mean they are likely to be extended forever. Congress has already let it laps what are the odds they would renew it again next year? Slim to none, especially in the GOP regains power.
He's a solid no because it benefits his enterprises where he stands to make solid profits off of how things work now. Not to mention lobbyist, especially health care lobbyists, would not like to see caps on drug or healthcare costs.
Also his whole comment about the bill hurting the economy. That's a load of crap. Not passing the bill will hurt our GDP.
Yet West Virginia supports the Build Back a Better America bill by 42 points in the latest poll. It is immensely popular, even with republicans.
He said in the past that the bill was to expensive and would hurt the economy. And that his number was 1.7 trillion. The house got him his number of 1.7 trillion, and now that we have the number he was asking for he's a "no".
He says the Democrats did not meet his demands. That they did not take things out of the bill, only shortened the length of time programs ran for. And he said quote. "Let's face it and be honest with ourselves, we all know congress will renew these programs if we allow them to continue. They won't be temporary, they will be permanent."
However, this is totally not true. Many things were indeed cut from the bill. Things like paid family leave just to name one thing. Childcare for another...
And no, temporary things, such as the child tax credit being extended by 1 year does not mean they are likely to be extended forever. Congress has already let it laps what are the odds they would renew it again next year? Slim to none, especially in the GOP regains power.
He's a solid no because it benefits his enterprises where he stands to make solid profits off of how things work now. Not to mention lobbyist, especially health care lobbyists, would not like to see caps on drug or healthcare costs.
Also his whole comment about the bill hurting the economy. That's a load of crap. Not passing the bill will hurt our GDP.
Also, if you want to do an analysis of GDP growth with vs without the BBB, you find that with the BBB, analysts are predicting about a half percentage point of GDP will be lost next year if we don't pass BBB. So, not passing BBB is going to negatively effect our GDP and will have no real impact on inflation--as in inflation is going to happen next year whether we like it or not, not passing BBB will not keep inflation down. The main inflation driver is pandemic shortages--so cash payments to families might not fix this problem, but it's not going to make inflation much worse. Asset inflation we are seeing in housing markets is due largely to lots of cheap credit being available for wealthy people. Passing or not passing BBB won't change this. All of the main economic drivers that Manchin is complaining about are barely touched by the BBB.
debianlinux
Well-Known Member
Just to be clear, I used the tax credits to put my kids in summer school so we could both continue working and to help put my kids in private school since the public school system is still in post-covid shambles.
ftfy.
debianlinux
Well-Known Member
Everyone talks about Manchin without mentioning the other 50-odd senators also voting no.
This is true.
And this is one of the things that doesn't sit well with me.
The radio show I was listening to this morning, they did mention the other 50 senators. But said they get a pass because they are Republican and expected to be a note vote. For Joe Manchin, being a Democrat, this is inexcusable.
How is it not just as inexcusable for Republicans. Why do they get a free pass on this?
Joe is stereotyping people who receive the child tax credit. So what a few will use it to buy drugs? Joe's daughter has made many millions in the drug business, but astronomically raising prices that severely restricted access to some critical drugs.
If he’s so worried about people being on drugs, why doesn’t he support Medicare for all so that people are able to get care for addiction. And then support a full employment economy that creates work with dignity for all, and maybe not so many people would throw up their hands and give up on life. Depression and addiction are linked and it is cruel of us as a society to ignore this.